Greeting visitors...catch 22 situation!!

[Dreeza]

We really dont have many people come to the house, but when we do, it presents a huge problem with Oakley.

If the person likes dogs, and doesnt mind Oakley jumping, then we let him greet them, trying NOT to reinforce his jumping. He usually ends up squirming around like a maddog on the ground around their feet and is like a giant ball of excitement for about 3 mins, then he gets over it, and is like "aight, enough petting me, good bye", haha.

Anyways, we've been having painters/landscapers/etc come, and its starting to be a REAL problem. Since we dont want him going haywire on whoever has just rung the doorbell, we usually end up holding his collar when we open the door (the way our house is, it is tough to confine him in a room really fast...we dont want the person who just rang the doorbell leaving...)

when we do this, he gets back into his old bad self...barking nonstop, growling, snapping at our hands, lunging...not fun... and then of course the person is scared half to death of him cause he looks like he is about to rip someone's head off.

The thing is, he wont (well, lets hope, not!!!). He was doing this to the alarm guy, and finally, the guy was like "its ok, i love dogs, he can meet me", so i was like 'alrighty, brace yourself"...and let Oakley go. haha, at this point, the guy was laying on the ground, and Oakley was a room away, so Oakley jumps on the guy after running full speed to him licking and wagging his tail, and soooo excited to meet the darn guy.

So of course, his excitability is getting reinforced.

Now if we dont let him meet the person, he is fine as long as I, or someone else is keeping him company. The second we lock him in a room by himself, he starts barking uncontrollably again...

So basically, he is just better off meeting them, cause then he calms down in less than 5 minutes, and completely leaves them alone...and with people who come repeatedly, like the cleaning people, he is totally fine with, and lets them do their job.

The problem is when people who are NOT ok with dogs jumping on them come into the house...

I know how to train him not to do this, however, we simply do NOT have enough people coming over to help us out. And once he meets a person, his excitement is majorly toned down the second time he meets them (unless he is really reinforced the first time...)

arg, its just a catch 22...

is there anything that can be done??

 

[LhasaLover]

I'm training a young rescue dog out of that right now. I love dogs, clearly, but I really hate when I visit someone and their dog starts jumping on me. I've had clothes ruined when out of control, but friendly, dogs have done that to me.

What I've started doing is leashing Willie before I open the door and keeping him on the leash until he's calmed down and is behaving on his own. I allow him to wander around among the people, but when he jumps on someone, anyone, I tell him no and give a quick, short pull on his leash. I do the same thing when he's barking at them. I also praise him quite a bit when he responds correctly and he loves that. Even tho we only have people at the house about once a week, it's working wonderfully well and he's learning quickly.

Incidentally, I did the same thing when he was jumping on the door when it was time for us to go inside and he was excited, waiting for me to get there. (I have a white door and solid clay soil, so the door was getting orange & dirty) He's on a 50 foot tieout when we go out in the front yard, so it was easy for me to hold it from quite a ways away and train him while I walked to the door. He learned in about 3 days not to jump on the door and now he's quite comical - he'll bounce up and down in front of the door, and race back & forth between me & the door, but doesn't jump on it anymore.

I also used the leash method to work his food aggression out of him when I first got him.

** I should also add that I have a harness on him instead of a collar, so I'm not pulling on his neck.

 

[LhasaLover]

I should add that it's very important to use the same words and actions, in the exact same order, every time you try to teach any behavoir. It avoids confusion for the dog and speeds the training process.

For example, my animals are trained to come inside when I snap my fingers 3 times. When I'm training my animals to respond to a certain snap of my fingers, I do the snap, the voice command, then follow that up with anything else I need to do to teach the behavoir. Eventually, you can drop the action, then the voice command, so they'll respond to just the fingersnap. Even cats respond well to this type of training.

Sheepherders use whistles, hunters & deaf people use hand signals - it's a very cool way to train your animals.

 

[Fran27]

Just wanted to say, we have the same problem with Boris, and nothing so far seems to have helped, so good luck, lol.

 

[Dreeza]

haha thanks Fran!!! At least Oakley isnt the only one

And thanks Lhasa...i see how your method might work, but honestly, i just cannot see it working for Oakley. When he gets on a leash, and starts lunging for people, it just makes the problem worse (same as holding onto his collar basically). I've never seen him calm down when being held back from what he wants really bad..maybe we arent waiting long enough...but when there is a stranger in your house, its hard to explain to them that you are trying to train your dog, ya know?? I dont feel right subjecting them to his behavior.

The thing is, once he is released, it is a bajillion times easier to calm him down and get him to listen.

haha ok, this thread, and another i posted just brought me to a huge revelation that Oakley despises being restrained...

 

[baineteo]

The reason why you've never seen him calm down when he's on a leash is probably because you've let him off the leash without him calming down everytime. If he is agitated and going crazy while he's on the leash, you cannot let him off the leash, for doing so is reinforcing the behaviour (if I tug, bark and make a lot of noise, they're going to take off my leash and I can go greet the person). I do not believe Oakley will continue to make a din even after, say 20-30 minutes. If he does, let him be. Only after has he settled down can you let him off the leash and let him greet the visitor.

And honestly, I don't think it's difficult to explain to visitors what you're trying to do. In fact, when I first got Cookie, I told my friends who were visiting to help me out with the training. She used to stand on her legs whenever a visitor appears (with her in her playpen), or when the visitor approaches her playpen. I then told my friends to walk away and dissappear completely out of her sight when she stands up. Once she drops onto her fours, my friends will reappear, and it repeats.

Try getting some friends to help you out first. It'll then be easier when strangers are in the house.

 

[LhasaLover]

haha thanks Fran!!! At least Oakley isnt the only one

And thanks Lhasa...i see how your method might work, but honestly, i just cannot see it working for Oakley. When he gets on a leash, and starts lunging for people, it just makes the problem worse (same as holding onto his collar basically). I've never seen him calm down when being held back from what he wants really bad..maybe we arent waiting long enough...but when there is a stranger in your house, its hard to explain to them that you are trying to train your dog, ya know?? I dont feel right subjecting them to his behavior.

The thing is, once he is released, it is a bajillion times easier to calm him down and get him to listen.

haha ok, this thread, and another i posted just brought me to a huge revelation that Oakley despises being restrained...

I tell people, strangers or friends, that we're "in training" right at the door and they're very good about it. (I saw that one on Cesar LOL) I don't open the door until he's on leash.

And there are times I don't let him off it at all, like when there are toddlers there, or people that don't like dogs. He stays leashed to me the entire time they're there, walking all over with me and learning how to behave. If I do let him off leash and he acts up, he goes right back on the leash.

 

[hbwright]

You can put a sign on your front door also, "Dog in training" and keep a pocket of small treats or kibble. Jordan is 5 months old now and just begining to realize that he gets treats if he does a sit/stay when company is at the door. We put him in a sit/stay when the door rings and he gets a treat from me for obeying and then he'll get one from the company when he keeps his sit/stay while they stand at the door or come in. When he doesn't behave, he gets no treats and gets restrained. Here lately he has had great improvements so hopefully he's getting the picture. Now only if my 13 year old dog would behave as well as the puppy.

 

[Dekka]

ok a few things. A dog straining on leash is in a very different mind set due to body posture feed back and the stress/excitement of feeling confined. (there is lots out there on the net about on leash agression-same idea)

But I have an almost sure fire way to fix this-BUT it takes time, consistancy, a really good friend with loads of patience.

Ok what you do is teach your dog a really good sit stay and reinforce it heavily. (oh and for the next while keep the dog in another room when ppl come to the door. Put a note on door saying something along the lines of it takes you a while to get to the door, so when ppl come to the door they will wait while you put him away)

Then have a friend come over. Set a chair outside by your front door for said friend and tell her to bring a good book. Have your dog on leash. If your dog is too strong for you to hold when he lunges tie him to a doorknob or something sturdy. Have your friend knock on the door. Tell your dog to sit. If he doesn't, ignore him till he settles (even if it takes 10 min) then get him to sit, give cookie. Then have your friend knock again. Same routine. When your dog can stay sitting after a knock (or doorbell) Then move on to the next part. If it has taken 30 min or more for this point, call it a day, but the dog away and go take your friend out for coffee.

Next step is having the dog in a sit stay as you go to open the door. If at any time his tush rises off the floor you wait until he sits again before you proceed. So the knock, you signal him to sit, he sits then you go touch the doorknob. If he stays sitting-reward, if not wait till he sits reward then start over. When he stays stitting for the doorknob turning and door opening invite your friend in. If he goes crazy stand and ignore him until he settles then reward etc. Once your friend can knock, come in and he stays sitting, have her give him some really really high value rewards. Once he is reliable with your friend practice with other ppl.

Good luck!

 

[Christin Luvs Dogs]

In my opinion, the biggest probelm you need to address is the on leash aggression. If I understand what you wrote originally, if you put him on leash when someone comes to the house he lunges and growls etc. There are many reasons why this is this first thing that needs to be addressed, but mainly just for logistics sake. You may need to consult with a behaviorist.

I would also check out the book "Click to Calm" as there is a specific section in it regarding retraining a "person at the door" reaction. You can actually work towards training the dog to "out" himself or remove himself from the situation on cue. In this instance it is simple to start out without having many visitors and actually more effective that way. You will want to gradually build to greater distractions, ie: more exciting people, but not begin with that.

I understand your frustration with the reaction your dog is having. It's not fun to look like you have a killer at the door!

 

[Jynx]

I agree with all suggestions..It sounds like Oakley needs some good training that's consistent.

I used to have a friend come over, same thing, one of my dogs would jump on her because she encouraged it, and I absolutely did NOT want him doing this, (what if it was a little old lady and he knocked her over?)

You have to take control of situations by not allowing it to happen AT ALL.
No Exceptions. No Jumping. When this "friend" would come over, I told her, the dog is NOT allowed to jump on people, do NOT enourage him to do so, and if ya do, you can leave *vbg*...

I think the first step, other than those suggested, is getting him into a good obedience class. Good luck

Diane

 

[Dreeza]

::sigh::

thanks for all the great advice, really.

He has been to obedience class, and while he passed, was not allowed to return until he saw a professional behaviorist, which he did.

The problem is that I am not at home, and my family is consistently screwing up his training. My mom especially, and my god she is one stubborn woman. She lets him jump all over her when she comes home.

The problem with some of the methods is that once he gets to know a person, he doesn't repeat the same behavior. Like, if I held him back from greeting my mom, or tried to calm him down, it would be very easy to do so. Also, he doesn't always respond to knocking/doorbell. It is easy to get him to sit/stay/be calm while the door is still closed, while I am opening it, and if I let him greet the person.

I will look into all of your suggestions, so once again, thanks