Great Dane Color Patterns

Red.Apricot

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#1
I have a question about great Dane color patterns, and my google-fu is weak today.

Unless I'm mistaken (which I very well could be) many of the possible color patterns in Danes are un-showable (in the AKC at least), and some of these are basically guaranteed to pop up (like merle).

Why are those colors disallowed?

I don't mean that in like, a judge-y way, and I'm not asking with an answer already in mind; I'm just honestly curious what the reason is.
 

Lyzelle

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#2
I don't think any colors are disallowed, they are just really picky about how they want the colors to show. Not too much, not to little...not sure of the why, but here's the AKC's outline:

Color, Markings and Patterns
Brindle--The base color shall be yellow gold and always brindled with strong black cross stripes in a chevron pattern. A black mask is preferred. Black should appear on the eye rims and eyebrows, and may appear on the ears and tail tip. The more intensive the base color and the more distinct and even the brindling, the more preferred will be the color. Too much or too little brindling are equally undesirable. White markings at the chest and toes, black-fronted, dirty colored brindles are not desirable.
Fawn--The color shall be yellow gold with a black mask. Black should appear on the eye rims and eyebrows, and may appear on the ears and tail tip. The deep yellow gold must always be given the preference. White markings at the chest and toes, black-fronted dirty colored fawns are not desirable.
Blue--The color shall be a pure steel blue. White markings at the chest and toes are not desirable.
Black--The color shall be a glossy black. White markings at the chest and toes are not desirable.
Harlequin--Base color shall be pure white with black torn patches irregularly and well distributed over the entire body; a pure white neck is preferred. Merle patches are normal. No patch should be so large that it appears to be a blanket.
Eligible, but less desirable, are black hairs showing through the white base coat which give a salt and pepper or dirty appearance.
Mantle--The color shall be black and white with a solid black blanket extending over the body; black skull with white muzzle; white blaze is optional; whole white collar is preferred; a white chest; white on part or whole of forelegs and hind legs; white tipped black tail. A small white marking in the blanket is acceptable, as is a break in the white collar.

Any variance in color or markings as described above shall be faulted to the extent of the deviation. Any Great Dane which does not fall within the above color classifications must be disqualified.
 

Danefied

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#4
My understanding is its simply for tradition reasons. Same reason you wouldn’t allow a mismark dally in the breed ring or a mismark dobe or rottie etc... IDK. And yes, mismarks do occur in responsible breeding programs.

Now, not allowing merle is historically related to health issues. Breeders believed merles (nor harles) were the ones who caused deafness so they were removed from the gene pool and in fact used to be bucketed :( Now that we know more about genetics, in europe they have started allowing merles to be shown. I don’t see that happening any time soon in the AKC, they only just let mantles in the breed ring!

ETA:
In Germany HarleXHarle, MerleXMerle and HarleXMerle breedings are not allowed and if you are caught you will be heavily fined.
 
S

SevenSins

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#5
I don't think any colors are disallowed, they are just really picky about how they want the colors to show. Not too much, not to little...not sure of the why, but here's the AKC's outline:
"Any Great Dane which does not fall within the above color classifications must be disqualified." I think Red was asking about things like blue brindle, blue fawn, harlequin with fawn, brindle, blue, etc patches. All are technically genetically possible if breeders choose to go outside of the color breeding "rules" but none are showable.

I don't know why, other than apparently GD breeders collectively decided they didn't like those colors/patterns in their breed.
 

Danefied

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"Any Great Dane which does not fall within the above color classifications must be disqualified." I think Red was asking about things like blue brindle, blue fawn, harlequin with fawn, brindle, blue, etc patches. All are technically genetically possible if breeders choose to go outside of the color breeding "rules" but none are showable.

I don't know why, other than apparently GD breeders collectively decided they didn't like those colors/patterns in their breed.
Pretty much the bolded.
The only showable colors are fawn, brindle, black, blue, harle and mantle.
 

Danefied

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#7
And Breez says screw the merle bias, I iz bootiful!!





Lunar says its good camouflage ;)



Yes, I just totally took advantage of this thread to show off my danish mismarks :D
 

Danefied

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#9
Yes, all harles are genetically merles which is why in europe they have begun allowing merles in the breed ring.
 

Red.Apricot

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#10
"Any Great Dane which does not fall within the above color classifications must be disqualified." I think Red was asking about things like blue brindle, blue fawn, harlequin with fawn, brindle, blue, etc patches. All are technically genetically possible if breeders choose to go outside of the color breeding "rules" but none are showable.

I don't know why, other than apparently GD breeders collectively decided they didn't like those colors/patterns in their breed.
Yeah, that's what I meant. :] I worded it a little poorly.

That's interesting everyone; thanks!

And Danefield, Breez is gorgeous.
 
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#11
yes, honestly IMO is pretty silly. With the advances we have made in genetics and testing there is no reason to worry about losing colors, or keeping color pure. The Merle part of it is the most ridiculous as they (and mantle merles) occur IN the accepted color families. Other mismarks do happen sometimes with "proper" breeding, but merles and mantle merles are a big part of each harl litter.

I happen to like mantle merles;)
 

Pops2

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#13
color doesn't catch a hog
nor does a bad guy care what color the dog is throwing him to the ground
it's also important to note that in the standard in my 1936 dog encyclopedia harelquin included fawniquin, blue harl & brindlequin
 

Pops2

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#14
"Any Great Dane which does not fall within the above color classifications must be disqualified." I think Red was asking about things like blue brindle, blue fawn, harlequin with fawn, brindle, blue, etc patches. All are technically genetically possible if breeders choose to go outside of the color breeding "rules" but none are showable.

I don't know why, other than apparently GD breeders collectively decided they didn't like those colors/patterns in their breed.
never understood why someone would want to purposely narrow a closed genepool by eliminating preexisting colors (this applies to you too rottie & samoyed people)
 

Barbara!

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#15
I know in Dane world it's traditionally looked down upon to mix color groups. It's Harlequin and Mantle, Fawn and Brindle... And I can't remember the other one. But breeding say, Mantle with a Brindle just isn't something they do. I am not sure why.
 

Danefied

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#16
I know in Dane world it's traditionally looked down upon to mix color groups. It's Harlequin and Mantle, Fawn and Brindle... And I can't remember the other one. But breeding say, Mantle with a Brindle just isn't something they do. I am not sure why.
The color families are fawn & brindle, black & blue, harle & mantle which also includes black from harle. It was in the border wars link.

Responsible breeders do mix color families sometimes especially to improve black and harle lines. But like Greenmagic said, with genetic testing, it really wouldn’t be hard to mix colors while still maintaining the color groups.

Fawns have the largest gene pool and if my really rudimentary understanding of color is correct, adding in a fawn to black or harle lines is not a big deal.
 

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