GOD ALMIGHTY ~ She BIT ME

[blondie's man]

Hi All

Where in the world do I begin with this HORROR that happened to me this past Sunday evening 5/31/'09

Blondie, my mixed Pit & Weinmaraner of which we didn't crop her ears or tail. Didn't want her to look aggresive. BOY did I get fooled.

Right to the point or should I've said ~ her teeth :cry:
Blondie protects me something unbelievable. Everytime I walk her she smells dogs that are up ahead of me or behind a guarded fence.

Blondie goes NUTS. And my other little dog (Pequito) just follows suit.

Well, Blondie goes up to a fence and a cocker spanal goes to her fence and they start at one another. I in turn am pulling on the choker coller I got around Blondie's neck. TO NO AVAIL, BLONDIE REALLY GOING NUTS !!!

I pull her so hard that I swing Blondie around into my left inner upper thigh and BLONDIE BITS ME :yikes:

She didn't take a LARGE BIT and pull out part of my inner thigh, but nevertheless I seen STARS and went into a bit of SHOCK !!!

Made it home and was hurting BIG TIME, took a pain pill and suffered till close to midnight and made it to bed. Sorry for such a novel but I really wanted to let you all know that it WAS AS I SEE IT ~ AN ACCIDENT.

Blondies age is 4

Question(s) Finally;

1. What can I do to STOP her from pulling me ?
I'm a pretty BIG GUY, 240lbs. And wripping her leather leech around my hand hurts from her pulling me. I yank on the choker to really no avail.

2. What about a MUSSAL for her mouth ?

Help guys/gals.

I really AFFAIR to take her out again. Due to the fact I'd be pulling her back and hurting my hands and NO DISAPLINE on probably both our parts.

That's it, I'm done.

 

[bubbatd]

Are you for real ????

 

[Tankstar]

You need a trainer. It doesnt sound like you will do much with her on your own.

you are also probably using the choker the wrong way, ma,king her wear it too low. Which wont have as much effect on her. you need to learn how to properly use these things, or you can do serious damage to your dogs neck.

find a trainer please.

 

[AGonzalez]

I agree with finding a trainer. It sounds like she redirected on you...meaning all her excitement/dislike for the other dog and then you did something and she snapped on you...which sucks.

Also, ever think of not using a leather leash? Those things rub my hands bad (I have a dog that pulls on her leash too), while nylon is much softer. I've also found no use for a regular choke chain, but that's personal preference.

Maybe when you approach a situation that gets her excited and she starts to yank you, if you do a 180 in the other direction and start off going that way instead? For pulling dogs it gives them no reward for pulling on their leash...but I don't know if you meant she pulls all the time or if it's just at seeing another dog?

 

[Zoom]

Blondie didn't bite YOU, per se, she redirected on the first closest thing, which happened to be you. She was very focused on the other dog, very frustrated and when you swung her around, she became more frustrated and you were in her sight line. It was an accident. I know plenty of dogs who have done this and they don't have a drop of "pit bull" in them. Docking and cropping don't "make" a dog aggressive either.

Now, you need to find a good behaviorist who specializes in aggressive dogs. Blondie is Dog Aggressive, or at least Barrier Reactive and you need to find someone who will teach you to teach her how to control herself. She's not protecting you when she's smelling for other dogs, she's looking to start trouble. You need to probably change up your walking routine or start crossing the road when you come to fences you know have other dogs behind them. Letting her fence-fight isn't doing anyone any favors.

Ditch the choke chain as well. That's not doing anything except causing damage to her trachea. Find a good sturdy harness or wide collar to walk her on from now on. Work on keeping her attention on YOU and not other dogs. As mentioned before, a good positive-method based trainer can help you accomplish this.

 

[Renee750il]

Agree on all counts. You need some good help with this. Nothing wrong with having a dog who is reactive to other dogs or barriers, IF you learn how to work with her to keep things from escalating like that.

Yanking on the chain just gets her more worked up, as will yelling and general mayhem.

Do look around for a good POSITIVE trainer. You don't need to work with an aversive trainer or anyone remotely resembling Cesar Milan. :wall:

And . . . may I suggest checking out Ella's Lead - Home made by our Chewbecca. I have a couple of them I use with my APBT and my Fila and they are marvelously strong and so easy on my smallish, rather soft women's hands If you do, be sure to tell her you're a fellow Chazzer.

 

[elegy]

i agree with zoom as well. i've had a similar thing happen to me- my little pittie girl was freaking out a bunch of dogs who were running the fence line when i was walking her. she couldn't get to them, so she redirected on me. it hurt. if you can't bite the one you want, bite the one you're with.

find a trainer who can teach you (through positive methods- it sounds like your dog is already getting more wound up by your physical attempts at correcting her, so you need to work with a method that does not use them) how to both train your dog to walk politely on a leash and how to desensitize her to other dogs.

in the meantime, stop letting her do things that you know are going to get her riled up. don't let her sniff the fenceline and carry on at other dogs like that! walking her at the same time as your other dog isn't helping matters either, so i'd walk them separately at least until you get this under control.

good luck! it will not be a quick fix, so you need to make up your mind that you're in it for the long haul and you're willing to do the work, but it's definitely worth it to have a dog who is not a problem in public.

 

[corgipower]

And wripping her leather leech around my hand hurts from her pulling me.

This sounds like you're wrapping the leash around your hand when you walk her? If so, STOP doing so!! That can easily lead to a broken hand.

Get rid of the choke collar. It's clearly not working and can be damaging her trachea. Get a no pull harness until you have control on her.

Get a good behaviorist who uses positive motivation.

Buy the book Click to Calm.

Get lots of treats and - at home where it's distraction free and she's comfortable - work on attention. Teach her to look at you for a treat. Then teach her to walk at your side. Gradually add distractions.

 

[germanshepardguy]

trainer asap

 

[blondie's man]

Hey Guys & Gals

THANK U ALL for the helpful and usefull suggestions, of which I will do my BEST to follow.

So, I'll look into a collar you've suggested and take a look @ POSITIVE TRAINER 4 Blondie & me.

THANKS AGAIN.

 

[blondie's man]

You Hit It Right On Point

Hi ACampbell0304

I couldn't agree with you more on all your suggestions. However, some questions please.

Isn't the leather collar a Choker Collar also
That darn Chain Coker did NOTHING to STOP Blondie. I'd wrap my hand around the leather leash and man, when Blondie pulled me I would YANK on the iron choker and she would hold-up a bit. But then go right on pulling me to the next lamp post or bush to smell around. Man, my hand and arm hurt.


As far as a trainer is concern, what kind of trainer am I to look for ?

Positive Trainer ~ What's the difference from other dog trainers ?

And what's this thing about " Clicker Trained Dogs "
If I have to walk around with somekind of toy clicker in my hand for training Blondie ~ I'm out on that :nono: :yikes:

I want personal voice commends from me to her
Thanks Guy

I agree with finding a trainer. It sounds like she redirected on you...meaning all her excitement/dislike for the other dog and then you did something and she snapped on you...which sucks.

Also, ever think of not using a leather leash? Those things rub my hands bad (I have a dog that pulls on her leash too), while nylon is much softer. I've also found no use for a regular choke chain, but that's personal preference.

Maybe when you approach a situation that gets her excited and she starts to yank you, if you do a 180 in the other direction and start off going that way instead? For pulling dogs it gives them no reward for pulling on their leash...but I don't know if you meant she pulls all the time or if it's just at seeing another dog?

This sounds like you're wrapping the leash around your hand when you walk her? If so, STOP doing so!! That can easily lead to a broken hand.

Get rid of the choke collar. It's clearly not working and can be damaging her trachea. Get a no pull harness until you have control on her.

Get a good behaviorist who uses positive motivation.

Buy the book Click to Calm.

Get lots of treats and - at home where it's distraction free and she's comfortable - work on attention. Teach her to look at you for a treat. Then teach her to walk at your side. Gradually add distractions.

 

[Dekka]

A clicker is a tool.. why would you be against a tool if you were already using tools. These types of issues can be fixed.. but it will take effort. Not saying you HAVE to use a clicker.. but if you can't be bothered to carry around a tiny little box I am not sure how much success you will be having.

My dogs still do everything by voice cue.. the clicker is just a tool to make learning easier for them.

 

[AGonzalez]

Hi ACampbell0304

I couldn't agree with you more on all your suggestions. However, some questions please.

Isn't the leather collar a Choker Collar also
That darn Chain Coker did NOTHING to STOP Blondie. I'd wrap my hand around the leather leash and man, when Blondie pulled me I would YANK on the iron choker and she would hold-up a bit. But then go right on pulling me to the next lamp post or bush to smell around. Man, my hand and arm hurt.

That's why I said I don't like choke chains. I prefer a prong collar for a bad puller but they take some knowledge on use...I also find a no-pull harness is the best way to go.
A nylon leash you can buy at wal-mart for cheap, and they are soft. Not the same thing as a choker. I don't use a leather anything, I use nylon collars and leashes...

Now for my puller I did use a prong for awhile, but she can pull through it so I gave that up for a no-pull harness. It also does really work that as soon as the leash tightens to do a 180 degree turn and walk the other way...they learn that if they want to go forward it has to be on a loose leash or they don't get to go the way they want to (pulling is rewarding them by moving forward toward what they want, IMO)

A clicker gives a basis for voice command...you don't use it forever, it's a tool, not a crutch. You condition them to the click meaning something good (i.e. food, ball, whatever she likes) then when she does a behavior YOU like, you click...she gets a treat...then she offers the behavior for the click/treat...then you give a voice command to it and wean off the clicker...In my experience it has worked very well with my dogs.

 

[corgipower]

Isn't the leather collar a Choker Collar also

Nope. A leather collar is a flat leather buckle collar. It doesn't tighten around her neck the way a choke collar does when she pulls.

As far as a trainer is concern, what kind of trainer am I to look for ?

You want to look for someone who uses positive motivation methods and who has experience with your dog's specific problems - Dog aggression/reactivity, barrier reactivity.

Positive Trainer ~ What's the difference from other dog trainers ?

Positive motivation trainers don't use force in training dogs. They train dogs without pain or fear. They use what motivates the dog as a way to teach the dog acceptable behaviors.

And what's this thing about " Clicker Trained Dogs "
If I have to walk around with somekind of toy clicker in my hand for training Blondie ~ I'm out on that :nono: :yikes:

You certainly don't have to clicker train. The book, Click to Calm uses clicker training, but the concepts in it can b applied without a clicker. It takes the cycle of look - lunge - bark - attack and interrupts it at the looking stage and redirects the dog back to the owner.

Clickers are a nice tool for some, but not for all.

I want personal voice commends from me to her

Clicker trainers use commands - sometimes they wait until the dog knows a behavior before adding a command though. Whether you do that or if you start out with commands, she needs a way to know what those commands mean. That's where the training comes in. It's a process and working in building blocks. Starting with attention in a low distraction area and building from there she'll eventually be able to go for a walk and not pull at the sight of another dog.


Thanks Guy

My answers are in blue.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

Are you for real ????

Well now... that was very uncalled for, especially for a new member here looking for advice for their dog.

Jeesh.

 

[Kayla]

As far as a trainer is concern, what kind of trainer am I to look for ?

Positive Trainer ~ What's the difference from other dog trainers ?

Different trainers will all have different methods, however there are a set of principles that govern all methods. While most trainers can get results, some results are not perminant, many traditionaly trained dogs re-quire constant retraining, however a positive trainer who doesnt know what they are doing can just as easily produce a dog that needs re-training.

What you should look for is a trainer who can give you referals to satisified clients. Speak to them and ask how the trainer treated there dog, did they offer support after the clients had finished with them and so on.

In addition I would caution you to avoid trainers who follow the alpha mentality. A lot of recent studies have pointed to the serious flaws in this logic.

And what's this thing about " Clicker Trained Dogs "
If I have to walk around with somekind of toy clicker in my hand for training Blondie ~ I'm out on that :nono: :yikes:

Like Dekka mentioned the clicker is nothing more than a tool. You could use a whistle or a word. Once you pair it with something your dog is willing to work for ( game of tug, chase a ball, food, etc) then you can use it to mark any behaviour you'd like, from walking nicely, not lunging at other dogs, going to bed, sitting, lying down, and so on and so forth.

The clicker was originally used with dolphins and other animals that don't respond to force training.

The coolest thing about using it with dogs is seeing the sudden moment where the dog realizes he/she is in control of the reinforcement flow by altering his/her behaviour.

It becomes a dance between dog and trainer where you are training the dog while the dog is training you to click.

Kayla

 

[lizzybeth727]

That darn Chain Coker did NOTHING to STOP Blondie. I'd wrap my hand around the leather leash and man, when Blondie pulled me I would YANK on the iron choker and she would hold-up a bit. But then go right on pulling me to the next lamp post or bush to smell around. Man, my hand and arm hurt.

I used a choke chain on my first dog when I was younger, because that's what I learned how to do from a book. But I can tell you, that after more than 5 years of consistent training in loose leash walking, she NEVER figured out that pulling = choke correction.

Since then I've learned about clicker training and other methods of leash walking training, and every dog I've trained since has learned how to walk nicely - what my old dog never learned in 5 years - in 6 months or less.

As far as a trainer is concern, what kind of trainer am I to look for ?

Positive Trainer ~ What's the difference from other dog trainers ?

You can check out Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources for a good trainer search, as well as an excellent article about how to find the right trainer for you.

And what's this thing about " Clicker Trained Dogs "
If I have to walk around with somekind of toy clicker in my hand for training Blondie ~ I'm out on that :nono: :yikes:

The clicker is a communication tool for you and your dog. When your dog does the behavior that you want him to do, you can click to "mark" that exact moment. Then you can reward your dog for doing the right behavior. Notice that the clicker doesn't "cue" the dog to do anything, it's not like morse code - one click means "come" two clicks means "sit" - it's simply a marker to let your dog know when he's done the right behavior.

The clicker works better than your voice, because dogs have a hard time distinguishing our words when we use different tones of voice. You can use a verbal marker, but you have to be careful to always say the word with the same tone of voice. With a clicker, though, you don't have to worry about it making different tones, as it is always consistent.

Once the dog learns the behavior that you want him to do, you no longer have to use the clicker to mark the moment that he does it. At that point, you can stop using the clicker and use a verbal marker, or no marker at all.

You can check out Karen Pryor Clickertraining| dog training and cat training info, books, videos, events for more info about clicker training.

ETA: Sorry Kayla, posted at the same time.

 

[fillyone]

I think this bears repeating (bold is mine)

The clicker works better than your voice, because dogs have a hard time distinguishing our words when we use different tones of voice. You can use a verbal marker, but you have to be careful to always say the word with the same tone of voice. With a clicker, though, you don't have to worry about it making different tones, as it is always consistent.

I'm in the very begining stages of teaching Dante to retrieve everyday "things" for me and am using a clicker.
In a couple of days we've gone from "Why is your wallet on the floor?" to putting it in my hand.
A couple of things that I really like about using the clicker rather than my voice is the ease of marking the exact moment he did something correct - I'm not sure I could have gotten a word out in time and wouldn't have in error marked the wrong behavior.
The other thing is that sometimes with Dante voice and praise can get him into drive and I don't want to do this training in drive - my wallet would either end up shredded or on top of the 'fridge when he flung it up in the air :lol-sign:

When I'm out and about with Dante I usually have treats in my pocket or my treat bag on - but unless I've gone out to do specific training I often don't have the clicker. He understands a job well done with verbal praise and a treat - the clicker I use for training that new thing he's never done before.

 

[smkie]

WHen we walk i never let my dogs sniff or get on other people's property. THat is just asking for trouble. I agree too that you should not walk two untrained dogs at the same time. Focus individually until each is a hundred percent. I have never used a clicker but i do use the word YES enthusiastically always the same word said the same way when a dog does right. IT has the same effect. I would work very hard on the basics several times a day in your yard to start. You can't get on the road when you can't control in the driveway.