From flat to sit

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Taqroy, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    I just watch Linds's Traveler vid and realized that I forgot to ask this question. Mu does NOT get that she can go from flat to sit. I've tried luring it (without food) and it works great but as soon as I start fading the lure she gets confused and frustrated and starts doing dead dog. :doh: It's entertaining, but wrong and I don't know how to fix it. She will also go up if I say sit and lean forward slightly (I have no idea why that works) but again, if I tell her to sit and stay still she will do nothing.

    And I don't lean forward when I tell her to sit normally...I checked LOL. Help please? We have to be able to do this for class and we suck. :p
     
  2. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    She sits up when you lean forward because you are leaning into her "space" and she's reading your intentions.

    Other than that, I'm no help, because Linds also reminded me that Enzo doesn't know this, and I'm in the same boat you are :p
     
  3. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    Twin Citay!
    Frodo can do this with a hand signal, but not verbal. Probably because the hand signal is really self-explanatory (Palm facing the ceiling, moving upward :p). I tried forever to teach this to Frodo and he didn't get it, then I left it for about six months and he learned it in a day. Same with down. He's an odd one.

    I realize that this probably did not help at all:eek:
     
  4. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,070
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Cats, Dog, Leopard Gecko, Gerbils, Fish, African C
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    How do you go about fading your lure? I like to say the verbal, pause for like three seconds to give him a chance to see if he knows it, then give the hand signal (or use the lure). You don't really fade the hand signal you just drop it all together when the dog is repeatedly going into the sit during the pause before your hand signal.


    If you're already doing that...if you give the cue and just wait long enough will he eventually try sitting? If so you can capture it. Only signal once, then just wait.
     
  5. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Pretty much what Maxy said, though I do work on making the hand single less exaggerated before I attempted to get rid of it all together. I'm still using a hand signal for 'stand' even though for the most part Traveler will down and sit without any hand signal. Stand was taught using a heavier lure than anything else and it's sticking around longer than I would like

    But, for example-I'm not still bending at the waist and luring down with my hand when I drop the down hand signal. I've faded it to the point of it just being a quick hand movement.

    So if it were me I would work on seeing if she gets the idea with less of a lure and continue with that until you are getting a sit consistently and then worry about the lure. Also, keep in mind her body is learn what exactly you want it to do and more she does it lure or not the easier she's going to find it. It's not a muscle building exercise for nothing :D Kaylee still would prefer never to do it, too much work for her

    But, before you do any of this you should be getting a video of 'dead dog' in training. That's the most important step
     
  6. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    12,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 2 rats
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    Buster and Quinn can do it, Quinn is fading the hand signal now but stil does need it, even at a distance. I started with luring with food, then without and then added a bit more distance bit by bit. I don't see me fading out the hand signal for a while yet.
     
  7. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Two dogs, three cats
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Think of it this way: Right now, your cue is to lean forward slightly. You want to switch it to a verbal cue. Switching cues is very easy. :)

    The way I would do it is this: Stand still and give the verbal cue "sit." Wait 1 second, then lean into her and click/treat her for sitting up. Repeat, waiting the same amount of time each time. Do this 10 times. Then give the verbal cue "sit" just like before, but do not lean into her. If she sits up, give a HUGE jackpot reward, and end your session - go play or something. Otherwise, wait about 3 seconds after the cue, and if she doesn't do it, just walk away. Then come back later and do 10 more reps of verbal cue + leaning, then test the verbal cue alone again.

    The problem with "testing" it every time (i.e. give the verbal cue, wait to see if the dog will do it, and if not then leaning in) is that the dog will learn not to bother trying to figure out the verbal cue, but to just be patient and wait for the visual cue. With most dogs this method will work eventually, but it will be slower in the long run.
     
  8. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    LOL. Frodo and Mu sound a lot alike. She will sit there and stare at me until I give up, then I come back to whatever it is a month later and she acts like she knew it the whole time.

    I've been working on making my lure less....lure-y. I don't mind luring it until she gets it, she just usually picks up on things right away so I thought I was doing it wrong. Lol. Thank you for the help! I was very impressed with Traveler's vid!!

    I'll see what I can do. ;) She defaults to it when she doesn't know what I want so it should be pretty easy.

    Thanks lizzy!! I'm going to start working it this way tonight. I'm pretty sure (given past experience) that she would sit and wait for - ev - er for me to give her the physical cue....or just play dead. :lol-sign:
     
  9. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Two dogs, three cats
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Oh yeah, they'll wait a LONG time for the physical cue.... A few years ago I became very good at teaching them to wait for it, until a better trainer pointed out what I was doing. :rolleyes: I still accidently do it sometimes, it's a difficult habit to be aware of and break.
     
  10. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    Well, Enzo has learned to sit up from down. It actually went fairly quickly. I did what you were doing taq, and stepping into her space while giving and exaggerated swing up of my arm and saying sit. Then I stopped stepping into her space and started just swinging my arm up, and she got it fairly quickly after that. We're still working on it at more than six feet away, but she's got it down at that distance pretty well.
     
  11. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Nice!! I swear they just need that lightbulb to switch on and then they figure out they can sit while laying down too Great that she figured out to not scooch towards you so soon too!

    Traveler and I aren't speaking right now due to him not downing outside because it's too cold on certain manly parts of him. He does a bow instead and looks at me like "come on, it's close right?"

    Anyway, congrats on getting her do it!
     
  12. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    HA, Ozzy does that. Sometimes I'll ask for a down, and he'll just down and roll over. He's like, "What? That was good enough, right?" :p

    He's so funny though, his roll over cue is "Do a barrel roll!" He loves it. He never did have a problem learning he could sit UP though, so Enzo not knowing it was kind of a funny challenge for me :p

    I want to teach her to weave through my legs, and to come between my legs and look up at me while walking. Have you done that? I can't think of a cue for that one
     
  13. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Nothing is more funny than the dogs that love nothing more than rolling over or in your case barrel roll, they do it with such zeal it's so great to watch.

    Kaylee's favorite thing in the world right behind poking things is go between my legs. She heels, sits and downs like that with the biggest grin on her face and her tail wagging a mile a minute. She loves it sooo much

    I used "Peekaboo!" for lack of anything better. But she does it without invitation or if you just don't stand with your legs glued together and she wants attention.
     
  14. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Colorado
    Well rub it in why dontcha...lol. Mu still hasn't quite got it, although she's getting very close. I almost think I should have assigned a different cue to it because she gets *so* confused. I think she's done it twice without the hand cue in the past 4 days and each time I've jackpotted and then we play a game or work on something else. We're getting there though! And now I want to teach her to weave between my legs....lol.
     
  15. jenv101

    jenv101 Bite Club

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Riley just learned this one. We did it a few times last week at class using the leash + hand signal while saying sit.

    Today I did it with him, first time since then, no leash just voice and signal. He popped right up. I was shocked :D
     

Share This Page