Friend is going to breed a year old pup :(

[Saje]

I need advice.

I have a friend/boss who is going to breed her one-year-old pup this week. She doesn't know any better and I need to know how to talk to her about it. I'm having such mental issues about addressing it because she is someone I work for on occasion and I respect her greatly. She's very gentle and loving but she's just recently moved onto a large acreage and is throwing herself into 'farm' life.

In the last year and a bit she's bought a horse, chickens, pigs a goat and four (yes four) puppies. She treats them well. Has infinite patience but ...

Yesterday I found out she wants to breed the oldest pup. I can't for the life of me remember the breed but it's a herding breed. Long white double coat. On the slender side. NOT an English sheepdog or anything of the sort.

Anyway, I need to approach her because it's just not sitting well with me BUT it's also really important that I don't burn bridges with her. I still need to work for her and really want to keep her as a friend. So how do I handle it?

I appreciate any facts about the right age for dog breeding (especially large breeds) etc

 

[Bunny82]

Oh Saje, I hope she listens to you.

I am not that well versed in breeding however the bare minimum age for breeding to my knowledge is two years old. That is the age that necessary genetic health tests can be done.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Hmm... is the dog a livestock guardian? A Kuvasz/Anatolian Shepherd/Great Pyrenees, maybe? I can't think of any other white herding type breeds.

Regardless, you should definitely try your best to get the point across to her, without sounding pretentious or condescending. It could help to "make up" a relative or friend who breeds that breed, and who urges against breeding until 2 years old. Ask her about the health of her dogs, and mention getting their hips x-rayed... even add that she could sell the puppies for much higher prices, and guarantee their health, if she got the certifications. Tell her to talk to her Vet (hopefully she has a decent one). I think a lot depends on the tone that you say it with. If you can meet the dogs, that will help a lot, because you can also go on and on about how beautiful they are while giving the advice. Most of all, people don't want to hear that their dogs are inferior, or there's anything wrong with them, and they don't want to feel berated. Be pleasant about it, and maybe even mock interest in a puppy (when the bitch is 2 years old and health checked).

I recently ran into the same issue... but it wasn't with my boss, it was a friend of a friend... she wanted to breed her 1 year-old Border Collies, and I *gently* urged her to wait until the dogs were 2 years old, reminding her of how puppyish her dogs still were, and how it just isn't a good idea for puppies to be raising puppies. I also threw in health testing and how important it was in the breed.

You can only do so much. Some people just won't listen. But as long as you try, you did all that you can do.

 

[Snip]

I would suggest that you find some documentation stating how unhealthy it is to breed at such a 'relatively speaking' young age, and see if you can convince her to hold off at least. This will buy you time to try to educate her on breeding in general, and hopefully to have her to a point where she realizes that it's not always what it's portrayed to be.

One common saying with farmers, if you have livestock, sooner or later you'll have deadstock. Not trying to be cruel, but often new 'farmers' such as you describe, really have issues when they lose the first animal on the farm, whether it be a lamb from pneumonia, horse from colic, calf due to predators, or a female that dies giving birth. (Regardless of animal type.) Often that first death sheds a new side to farming, and many of these 'farmers' can't handle it.

 

[Dekka]

Well can you discuss that the dog is not mature yet and it would be like letting an 11 year old girl have babies? That it could harm her dog's development.

Also ask her if she has puppy buyers ready? In this economy raising pups isn't cheap and if you don't have buyers due to the economy....

Has she had health tests? Educated puppy buyers want health tested parents. I am sure she wants the puppies to go to good homes so you could try that angle.

 

[bubbatd]

Tell her to join Chaz !!! We'll set her straight !

 

[Saje]

A Kuvasz. That looks and sounds right. It was something I hadn't heard of before but from the pics and spec i looked up sounds a lot like this girl. I haven't seen her since she last summer when she was a new pup but man she was cute!!

So I want to tell her that I'm worried about her particular dog because I know taht she loves that girl. I want to tell her how hard it will be on that dog. Like how does it affect her body... especially long term? What should i tell her there?

And also, does anyone know anything about that breed?

Ugh, this is so hard. I really don't want ot hurt her feelings. I enjoy chatting with her and having her as a friend but she also pays me $4 more an hour then anyone else, usually rounds my pay up to the nearest $20 and lets me bring Fiona with me. And buys food just for fiona to eat! Money is not really an issue I don't think. I mean, I do think she'll sell them but I don't think she'd hurt her dog in order to make a buck. Not on purpose.

<sighs>

 

[Dekka]

Tell her that her dog being a very large breed won't be done growing herself till she is at least 2. And that she wouldn't want to compromise her dog's development by trying to make puppies whilst still growing herself.

 

[bubbatd]

Ask her how she would feel if her daughter had a baby at 12 !

 

[Saje]

I'm trying to be gentle grammy. And I'm really hoping for more details. Like what will happen to her dog if she breeds it so young. I'm not a breeder and I know that their are consequences but I don't remember all the details!!

 

[bubbatd]

Understand . When I had requests of my males servicing females under 2 years old , it was easy to say NO and why .

 

[YodelDogs]

Ask her how she would feel if her daughter had a baby at 12 !

I have used this approach. Tactfully explain that a 1 year old puppy is similar to a 12 year old human girl and just because a 12 year old human girl may be menstruating and capable of having a baby, she isn't physically, mentally, or emotionally ready for parenthood. This usually "hits home" better than a lecture. If the person is open to communication, slowly bring up key points of how to become a responsible breeder. Once people see how much is involved, they often make the decision to just spay or neuter their pet. This works considerably better than just telling someone they shouldn't breed their dog. Going about it that way sometimes results in a person breeding their dog just to show you they can do whatever they want.

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Oy. With a dog that size, whelping a litter at that age is going to wreck her. She's still growing, and all the calcium and nutrients she needs for her own growth are going to be used up on the puppies, leaving the dam in a very sad state. SHe may very well suffer skeletal issues down the road if the babies take too much from her.

Not only that, but immature moms are NOTORIOUS for being bad moms. She's still a puppy herself, she's not got the maturity to handle puppies. The owner better get used to short naps, because immature dams are prone to not nursing or cleaning up their babies.

I hope you can change her mind.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Some complications that can result from breeding a female dog too young include... a narrow pelvis that cannot birth puppies, difficulty giving birth because of a lack of flexibility in their tissues, not to mention a MUCH higher likelihood of the bitch rejecting her puppies and having to bottle feed some, if not all, of them. A dog is not socially mature until at least 2 years old, and a Kuvasz is not going to be full grown until 1 1/2-2 years old.

 

[Saje]

Thanks you guys! That helps a lot!

 

[BigDogs]

Basically, I would just say something like "great! I'll ask around and try to help you find homes for the puppies. And what did the vet say about it?"

I would leave it at that, and then I would butt out of something that is not any of my business.

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Basically, I would just say something like "great! I'll ask around and try to help you find homes for the puppies. And what did the vet say about it?"

I would leave it at that, and then I would butt out of something that is not any of my business.

SHould she also say "Yay, I'm sorry your beloved dog died, I'll help you dig her grave." when the bitch dies in whelp?

 

[Saje]

Hmph. She did NOT take that well.


And it is a Maremma.

 

[Dekka]

What happened?

 

[Saje]

Oh she said that I was right it's not really my business. That she is not a dumb backyard breeder and has done her research and that she doesn't ever want to talk about the issue with me again. Oh and she hopes we can remain 'friendly' <sigh>

She did say that she hadn't decided for sure if she was going to breed her right now. So that's good I guess.