Finding heel position

Maxy24

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#1
Just curious, does it matter HOW your dog gets into heel position? I taught Phoebe to go around me (goes by my right side, around me and ends facing the proper position at my left) because she likes that better than walking up to my left side from in front and turning around to face forward, she had trouble learning it that way so I had her go around. so basically whenever I tell her to heel she gets into position by doing the "finish" command. Is this acceptable in obedience/Rally-O?
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#2
Yes, it is. Nothing starts in obedience until the judge gives you a command, so as long as your dog is fairly prompt, it does not matter how they get into heel position.

:)
 

Dekka

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#3
Its fine for obedience.. but in Rally they need to know both finishes. I tend to only teach a flip finish when I start (finish left) But thats cause JRTs can get distracted easily and I don't want them out of eye sight ;)
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#4
I am the same, Dekka. I teach the flip first, and then later I teach the military finish. They do have to know both for Rally.
 

Maxy24

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#5
So much of what you two said has gone right over my head lol. I am no where near actually competing with Phoebe, I'm thinking about doing Rally-O in the future though. So I don't know the terminology really at all yet, want to explain what the two finishes are please?
 

Dekka

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#6
With the dog in the 'front' position. (ie sitting facing you) you can finish left or right. In the left or flip finish the dog 'flips' around and ends up sitting in heel.

at 0.52 you can see Dekka's flip finish. YouTube - Jack Russell heeling.

A BIG hint if you are planing on competing. If your dog is to stay behind walk off with your right leg.. if your dog is supposed to heel with you strike off on your left leg.
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#7
Penny does not really flip, I teach the big dogs to do it in a controlled manner so they get in a precise heel position, but I have a clip up in the training section where you can see her do her left finish too. The around behind you going to your right from front is called a Military finish.
 

Dekka

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#8
LOL learnt something new. I have never heard it called the Military finish. I have just heard it called finish right (or around)
 

Maxy24

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#9
Thank you! I'll have to teach that next, right now I am still getting her to stay with me in heel when I do what you did at 21 sends and 5 seconds. She still needs to learn to back up too, she's not great at using those back legs yet but we're getting closer.
 

corgipower

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#10
I've always heard that the finish to the left is the military finish - because the military dogs weren't supposed to be behind the handler.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#12
I've always heard that the finish to the left is the military finish - because the military dogs weren't supposed to be behind the handler.
I found that interesting.. so I looked it up..
The Swing Finish...

The swing finish was originally called the "Military Finish", because it was felt that the dog should never be BEHIND the handler when on duty. The swing allowed just an instant when the dog was turning, and his focus would return forward. According to Carl Spitz, original military recalls were done WITHOUT fronts...dog came in and swung directly to heel position for the same reason. Carl Spitz set up the War dog program in WWII, and his mentor was Konrad Most...the guy who invented the sport of Schutzhund.

- Vic Monteleon, Montwood Dobes
War Dog
 

Nestnuuka

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#13
This may be out of this topic, but I have to ask what is right heeling position in USAs obedience trials?

I have watched some videos of heeling from internet and I was wondering, is it okey to keep your left palm on same level as your elbow is? Does it lower points or is it okey? I'm asking this, because I'm interested :)

I'm not goot at explaining things in english. Hope you get what I meant :p
 

Dekka

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#14
yes you can keep you palm at your waist.. but you can't stick your elbow out (many judges will nail you for it)
 

Nestnuuka

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#15
Okey :) Here it lower points. Your hands have to move freely like when you normally walk. Is that okey there? Where can I find your countrys obedience rules?
 

Dekka

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#16
Not sure where they are online. Yes your hands can move freely. I think you heel like that for Schutzhund. I think it looks too distracting esp with a big dog.... Rules are slightly different depending on what venue you do (though not as large a differences as there are in differing agility venues)
 

Nestnuuka

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#17
Here keeping your palm at your waist is like helping the dog to keep his/her contact on you :) Funny how things are different there. Is schutzhund like IPO / SchH trials (there's protection, obedience and tracking parts on the trials)..?
 

corgipower

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#18
This may be out of this topic, but I have to ask what is right heeling position in USAs obedience trials?

I have watched some videos of heeling from internet and I was wondering, is it okey to keep your left palm on same level as your elbow is? Does it lower points or is it okey? I'm asking this, because I'm interested :)

I'm not goot at explaining things in english. Hope you get what I meant :p
Section 18. Heel Position. The heel position as defined in these regulations applies whether the dog is sitting, standing, lying down or moving at heel. The dog should be at the handler’s left side straight in line with the direction the handler is facing. The area from the dog’s head to shoulder is to be in line with the handler’s left hip. The dog should be close to, but not crowding, its handler so that the handler has freedom of motion at all times.

Section 19. Hands. In all exercises where the dog is required to heel free, one of these options should be followed: (1) when the handler is in motion, the arms and hands must move naturally at the sides and must hang naturally at the sides when stopped; or (2) the right hand and arm must move naturally at the side, while the left hand must be held against the front of the body, centered in the area of the waist, with the left forearm carried against the body.

In either of the above situations, the hands and arms may be adjusted during the fast portion of an exercise in order to maintain balance.

There will be a substantial deduction if the hands and arms are not carried in one of the positions stated above. In any exercise that requires a dog to sit in front, the handler’s arms and hands must hang naturally at the sides until the dog has sat in front. The handler must receive a substantial deduction for not doing so.
Heeling on leash -

The leash may be held in either hand or in both hands, but the hands must be held in a natural position. Any tightening or jerking of the leash and use of any extra commands and/or signals will be penalized.
and ~

Natural Manner. The Obedience Regulations place emphasis on handling that appears natural. The Heel on Leash and Figure Eight exercise specifically states that the hands must be in a natural position but do not require that they be at the handler’s side while heeling on leash. It is up to each judge to decide when, and to what extent, the performance of any particular handler is lacking in naturalness and when the hands of the handler are not in a natural position. Ajudge is expected to penalize a handler if, in the judge’s opinion, the handler’s manner or handling is unnatural. On the other hand, no judge should consider that a handler is unnatural just because they do not perform with the hands and arms in the same position for each exercise. Any motion that the judge considers to aid the dog’s performance should be penalized.

Okey :) Here it lower points. Your hands have to move freely like when you normally walk. Is that okey there? Where can I find your countrys obedience rules?
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RO2999.pdf

Is schutzhund like IPO / SchH trials (there's protection, obedience and tracking parts on the trials)..?
Yup. :D
 

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