Fertility treatments, what are your opinions?

[AdrianneIsabel]

I looked at your list. You have things like dyslexia, mild epilepsy and club foot on there. These are minor things. They aren't really comparable to the genetic disorders that require you to spend half of your already shortened life in a hospital, in varying states of physical discomfort, mental deterioration etc. Sure people with good character will make the best of it, that doesn't mean it's nice for them.

As far as suicidal depressed alcoholics, no I think it's probably best that they don't raise kids, but not necessarily for genetic reasons.

I can only counter the posts that have said ADHD, Dyslexia, Diabetes, and OCD should not reproduce.

Do I believe knowingly planning a child with CP is fair? No, but this is an extreme and I am not comfortable accepting an extreme as a rule maker. I do not believe many people choose to plan a child with a hospital life stay, if they do I would love to hear their rationale instead of writing them off at first sight.

You're welcome to extend my list with more serious issues if you'd like. http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_0060.shtml

 

[Red.Apricot]

tho I did know a couple that were known carriers of the Down syndrome gene & still went on to have kids anyway because they didn't believe in BC for "religious reasons" & no I do not agree with that.

I don't think that's how Down syndrome works.

 

[CaliTerp07]

Show me a person who's never hard a mental or physical hardship yet maintains a strong character, maintaining those characteristics listed, worth passing on.

I think that's really naive to say that you have to have a hardship to have good character. I've had an easy life, by most peoples' standards. Never struggled for love or money, and my biggest health issue is that I need glasses (which has had zero bearing on my character, in my opinion). I'd still like to believe I'm a driven, intelligent, honest individual.

-----

I know it's been said a few times, but it bears repeating imo. Asthma, PCOS, diabetes, dyslexia, et (all easily identifiable and manageable, where long fulfilling lives are possible) are not even close to being on the same page as inheritable diseases that cause early, painful deaths.

Obviously it is up to everyone to decide for themselves, but I would absolutely call it selfish if someone whose yet-to-be-conceived child had a 50/50 shot of dying a painful death by 12 years old chose to conceive that child anyway.

I don't think anyone is saying "alzheimers runs in your family, don't have kids". (At least, I haven't read that). What I am reading is that the quality of life your child has should be a variable (along with family stability, financial stability, desire for the child, etc) that is taken into account when making the decision to procreate. I think most people do this. I don't think it's a foreign concept. I don't think anyone is saying "if your child needs braces, they aren't good enough to be born" (though I do think if you know your child will need braces, you should plan to save the money for it ).

I think this whole tangent was started by people talking about the 1 in 100,000 type genetic disorders that leave a person with no shot at a long, fulfilling life.

 

[Emily]

I don't think that's how Down syndrome works.

LMAO I'm glad somebody else said it.

 

[Danefied]

I don't think that's how Down syndrome works.

Of course it's not. It's Dogdragoness though, since when is she worried about accuracy of information?

@Dogdragoness, I don't mean that as snarky as it sounds, but it does worry me how quick you are to jump to being critical of folks without having a good grasp on all the facts surrounding the issue you're criticizing.
It worries me, because generally folks are most critical of themselves, and I hear a lot of self-hate in your posts. I wish for you that you learn to love yourself a little more

 

[Lyzelle]

I know it's been said a few times, but it bears repeating imo. Asthma, PCOS, diabetes, dyslexia, et (all easily identifiable and manageable, where long fulfilling lives are possible) are not even close to being on the same page as inheritable diseases that cause early, painful deaths.

Obviously it is up to everyone to decide for themselves, but I would absolutely call it selfish if someone whose yet-to-be-conceived child had a 50/50 shot of dying a painful death by 12 years old chose to conceive that child anyway.

I don't think anyone is saying "alzheimers runs in your family, don't have kids". (At least, I haven't read that). What I am reading is that the quality of life your child has should be a variable (along with family stability, financial stability, desire for the child, etc) that is taken into account when making the decision to procreate. I think most people do this. I don't think it's a foreign concept. I don't think anyone is saying "if your child needs braces, they aren't good enough to be born" (though I do think if you know your child will need braces, you should plan to save the money for it ).

I think this whole tangent was started by people talking about the 1 in 100,000 type genetic disorders that leave a person with no shot at a long, fulfilling life.

This.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I think that's really naive to say that you have to have a hardship to have good character. I've had an easy life, by most peoples' standards. Never struggled for love or money, and my biggest health issue is that I need glasses (which has had zero bearing on my character, in my opinion). I'd still like to believe I'm a driven, intelligent, honest individual.

-----

Congrats! You pass the requirements and you may add to the gene pool in this hypothetical world. I never challenged the existence of such an individual, I never would. I am sorry if it comes across as if I am.

Again, you'll need to go back and read the thread to understand the fact "mild" or "moderate" disorders are being listed along side "extremes". I can't quote for some reason right now on my phone but the OP addressed ADHD and OCD as determining factors several pages ago. Hence, the upheaval.

Typos galore, iPhone FTW.

 

[CaliTerp07]

I never challenged the existence of such an individual, I never would. I am sorry if it comes across as if I am.

I apologize, that's how I interpreted your post.

I think we all ought to just ignore the OP and respond to each other, who are arguing far more well thought out, coherent things.

 

[Dogdragoness]

LMAO I'm glad somebody else said it.

Maybe it wasn't Down syndrome. I don't remember what it was ... I thought I did but maybe I don't.

But since this is my thread I am allowed to be wrong

 

[Dogdragoness]

Of course it's not. It's Dogdragoness though, since when is she worried about accuracy of information?

@Dogdragoness, I don't mean that as snarky as it sounds, but it does worry me how quick you are to jump to being critical of folks without having a good grasp on all the facts surrounding the issue you're criticizing.
It worries me, because generally folks are most critical of themselves, and I hear a lot of self-hate in your posts. I wish for you that you learn to love yourself a little more

Gosh ... Ouch! I don't like myself a lot of times ... I wouldn't call it self hate but if you lived a day as me ... Then you would understand why I don't like myself sometimes. I don't mean to be all "woe as me" when there are a lot of others with worse probs then me ... But I have never been able to get along or form relationships with ppl because I just don't fit in.

So I try not to let it bother me anymore what ppl think.

I am actually a very nice person, I just don't know how to word things where I don't offend ppl. But the friends that I do have are very close & love me for me.

 

[sillysally]

I think that's really naive to say that you have to have a hardship to have good character. I've had an easy life, by most peoples' standards. Never struggled for love or money, and my biggest health issue is that I need glasses (which has had zero bearing on my character, in my opinion). I'd still like to believe I'm a driven, intelligent, honest individual.

-----

I know it's been said a few times, but it bears repeating imo. Asthma, PCOS, diabetes, dyslexia, et (all easily identifiable and manageable, where long fulfilling lives are possible) are not even close to being on the same page as inheritable diseases that cause early, painful deaths.

Obviously it is up to everyone to decide for themselves, but I would absolutely call it selfish if someone whose yet-to-be-conceived child had a 50/50 shot of dying a painful death by 12 years old chose to conceive that child anyway.

I don't think anyone is saying "alzheimers runs in your family, don't have kids". (At least, I haven't read that). What I am reading is that the quality of life your child has should be a variable (along with family stability, financial stability, desire for the child, etc) that is taken into account when making the decision to procreate. I think most people do this. I don't think it's a foreign concept. I don't think anyone is saying "if your child needs braces, they aren't good enough to be born" (though I do think if you know your child will need braces, you should plan to save the money for it ).

I think this whole tangent was started by people talking about the 1 in 100,000 type genetic disorders that leave a person with no shot at a long, fulfilling life.

:hail:

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I apologize, that's how I interpreted your post.

I think we all ought to just ignore the OP and respond to each other, who are arguing far more well thought out, coherent things.

Fair enough and reasonable.

 

[SevenSins]

I think that's really naive to say that you have to have a hardship to have good character. I've had an easy life, by most peoples' standards. Never struggled for love or money, and my biggest health issue is that I need glasses (which has had zero bearing on my character, in my opinion). I'd still like to believe I'm a driven, intelligent, honest individual.

-----

I know it's been said a few times, but it bears repeating imo. Asthma, PCOS, diabetes, dyslexia, et (all easily identifiable and manageable, where long fulfilling lives are possible) are not even close to being on the same page as inheritable diseases that cause early, painful deaths.

Obviously it is up to everyone to decide for themselves, but I would absolutely call it selfish if someone whose yet-to-be-conceived child had a 50/50 shot of dying a painful death by 12 years old chose to conceive that child anyway.

I don't think anyone is saying "alzheimers runs in your family, don't have kids". (At least, I haven't read that). What I am reading is that the quality of life your child has should be a variable (along with family stability, financial stability, desire for the child, etc) that is taken into account when making the decision to procreate. I think most people do this. I don't think it's a foreign concept. I don't think anyone is saying "if your child needs braces, they aren't good enough to be born" (though I do think if you know your child will need braces, you should plan to save the money for it ).

I think this whole tangent was started by people talking about the 1 in 100,000 type genetic disorders that leave a person with no shot at a long, fulfilling life.

All of this.

Nobody here is advocating the selective breeding of humans. Wishing some people would make the decision for themselves not to have children does not equate to Hitler or eugenics.

Be honest, how many people here would judge a cocaine addict for having a child? Why or why not?

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Do you mean actively using while pregnant? It is a simple answer for me, sober up. A sober addict? I have no judgements.

 

[SevenSins]

Do you mean actively using while pregnant? It is a simple answer for me, sober up. A sober addict? I have no judgements.

Nope, actively using.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Sober up. Just like one should attempt to do best by their child in every sense. I am not sure that this needs to be explained, voluntary drug use and a chance at a predisposed condition are not the same thing.

 

[SevenSins]

Sober up. Just like one should attempt to do best by their child in every sense. I am not sure that this needs to be explained, voluntary drug use and a chance at a predisposed condition are not the same thing.

Just so I'm clear on your position, correct me if I'm mistaken - Knowing you have a high chance of passing on mild to severe birth defects due to drug use is not OK, knowing you have a high chance of passing on a severely debilitating disease due to genetics is OK?

 

[Danefied]

Be honest, how many people here would judge a cocaine addict for having a child? Why or why not?

I do and have.

I shared my story (not that anyone cared ) but the condition one twin had - absent end diastolic flow of the umbilical artery, is something that happens to heroin addicts and in rare cases with identical twins who share the same sack, in extremely rare cases with fraternal twins like mine.

While I was in the hospital not knowing from one ultrasound to the next if the child inside me was alive or dead, I ran in to another patient in shackes and an orange jumpsuit. **** straight I judged her.
But not as much as I judged the coke head who's preemie baby came the same time as my two and who's incubator was right next to ours. She came in once to see her child. She was high as a kite and had to be escorted out. Never saw her again, and when the baby was getting ready to leave, he did his overnight test with a foster family. Hell yeah I judge her.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I have not, nor has anyone that I am aware of, encouraged breeding with the intention of a life guaranteed to be spent largely in the hospital whilst in severe pain. I do not however believe discrediting a breeding of good stock due to the potential for carrying on a disability.

I do not believe there is a majority out there purposefully producing children who're destined to this life as it is not only heartbreaking but also extremely costly to support.

I'm not a doctor though, I've not done enough research on genetics to know what conditions are guaranteed with which combinations. Denis has J. diabetes (as said before) and when he was diagnosed at 12 they were still blaming vaccine reactions, now it's still up in the air but there is a chance it is genetic.

It's a fascinating topic no matter the opinion driving the research.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Fine, since what has happened has happened (this thread blowing up in my face by ppl misinterpreting my posts) I have been called worse things (both to my face & behind my back) then anyone did on this thread ... I have very tough skin, I won't lose any sleep over it. It's the same old **** everywhere I go anyway (except the ADHD forum that is)

You guys know I graduated HS with honors & had 2 years of college, right? ( I am just not great at getting my thoughts from my head to the page) so I am very familiar with hitler & his "plan" I know is did a lot for animal rights & was a very bright guy evil as he was. I was saying that sterilizing the "inferior" humans (which I don't even know how that would even work & is so against human rights ... Which is why eugenics never took off anyway) is very different from "culling" them or locking them away in torturous concentration camps.

I choose not to breed because there is a 50/50 chance my child could have ADHD, bipolar disorder Also is heavy in my family. But judging from my life, I do not want my child to go thru what I did & still do every day, life is a struggle for me ... I just choose to struggle & suffer in silence most of the time, I don't like to talk to ppl about my problems usually unless they get so heavy that try just come out.

That is all, have fun with the thread , it's yours now.

I will just lurk from now on ... Unless someone needs a pick me up or words of encouragement or dog related advice I might be able to help with, then I will chime in, otherwise I am a ghost.