Feeding TWO? Look out, ingredient downgrade

MafiaPrincess

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#1
This is a crosspost.. Some people are still buying bags with the old ingredients, trying to stock up till they can find appropriate foods to change to. Like severe chicken allergies.. in formulas with no chicken having chicken fat with the changes and knowing their dogs react to it. Nice. TO is now on my skeazy meter. If the non existent customer service wasn't enough.. downgrade ingredients and I'm told increase price as of yesterday.. But.. as with other companies.. they have 6 months to use up old bags.. so who knows if you are buying new or old formula in old bags.. Just a heads up if you have an allergy issue.

Examples:

**"New" Wild and Natural:
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Chicken Fat, Dried Potato Product, Salmon Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato Pomace, DL-Methionine, Dried Whey Product, Casein, etc

**"Old" Wild and Natural:
Chicken Meal, Fresh Chicken, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Low Ash Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract) Eggs, Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Whole Milk, Dried Whey Extract, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, etc
---------------------------

**"New" Ocean Blue:
White Fish Meal, Salmon, Dried Potato Product, Chicken Fat, Salmon Oil, Natural Flavors, Dried Apples, Dried Blueberries, Dried Cranberries, Dried Figs, Ground Thyme, Ground Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fenugreek, Dried Garlic, Ground Sunflower Seeds, Ground Sesame Seeds, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Whey Product, Casein, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach,etc

**"Old" Ocean Blue:
Low Ash White Fish Meal, Salmon, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Potassium Chloride, Amaranth, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Taurine, Spirulina, etc
---------------------------

**"New" Dakota Bison
Bison, Salmon Meal, Ground Millet, Ground Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Chicken Fat, Sweet Potatoes, Salmon Oil, Dried Apples, Dried Cranberries, Dried Figs, Ground Thyme, Ground Anise Seed, Natural Flavors, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Dried Egg Product, L-Lysine, Tomato Pomace, Dried Whey Extract, Dried Casein, etc

**"Old" Dakota Bison
Fresh Bison Meat, Salmon Meal, Millet, Sweet Potatoes, Oats, Flaxseed, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Wild Salmon Oil, Atlantic Kelp, Alfalfa, Potassium Chloride, Amaranth, Currants, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Chicory Root, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, etc



Odd for the addition of "chicken fat" to Ocean Blue, and Dakota Bison. Also the use of "potato product" (new) vs "potatoes" (old) and "egg product" vs "eggs."

Also, beware of the addition of "egg product" to the Dakota Bison formula (which it did not originally have) if you have a dog allergic to eggs!
 

SizzleDog

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#3
Ugh how ridiculous. Why can't companies know when they've got a good thing going, and stick to it? I also know their Serenghetti food has been backordered indefinitely becuase they were having production problems with their *bags* - sheesh, just get cheaper, easier to find bags! My parents went through four foods before they found something else that the cats would eat and not vomit back up. They switched to TOTW Rocky Mountain Formula, cats are doing great on it.

(PS - TOTW Pacific Stream has no chicken or chicken fat... great stuff, my dogs are thriving on it)
 

showpug

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#4
That really is a downgrade from where they were at! Sad.

On another note however, dogs that are allergic to chicken are allergic to the protein, not the fat. It is VERY rare that a dog would ever react to a fat source because it lacks the amino acids that actually trigger reaction. Chicken fat is one of the best sources of a whole bunch on nutrients and that is why many companies still use it in their "chicken free" formulas.

Anyway, I too am feeding Taste Of The Wild (High Prairie) and am in absolute LOVE with the food. Honestly, out of all the foods I have tried this one has impressed me the most in the shortest amount of time. ALL five of my dogs from 12 weeks up to almost 10 years are doing fantastic on it. Alice has been eating it longer than the others, but they are all on it now and I am very happy and they LOVE it. I think I might have finally found "the" food!!
 

Herschel

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#5
There are numerous dried potatoes on the market e.g., dried potato products (AAFCO 60.28), potato flour, potato buds, potato starch and potato protein (AAFCO 60.94). The least costly of these is dried potato products. This is a co-product of the potato bud (instant potato) and French fry industry. This ingredient can be slightly gray to gray-white depending on how much peel is present. The amount of peel may affect kibble expansion and color when utilized in an extruded petfood.
http://www.petfoodindustry.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=12880

Gross.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#6
I actually know a few dogs that are so allergic to chicken food with chicken fat has caused reactions.. I know it's not the norm, but the whole concept bugs me.
 

SizzleDog

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#7
same here, showpug. I'm in love with TOTW. I love how the fish formula doesn't smell like fish, I love the shape of the kibble, I love how all of my dogs love the taste and are thriving on it.

I currently have Ronin on Pacific Stream, but I might try the other types on Ilsa and Ada.
 

RD

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#8
Gah. WHY? Unless they're also downgrading the cost of the food, that's just ridiculous.

+1 for TOTW. I'm feeding the venison formula and I LOVE the results my dogs have had on it. Coats have deteriorated a tiny bit because there's not as much fat in TOTW, but their appetites are better, they LOVE the taste of it, it smells good (my hands don't reek after I've used it as a training treat), it's almost $10 less per bag than EVO, and I feed more or less the same amount. I don't know if the switch to this food will be permanent because I trust Natura's Innova line more than any other food, but we're definitely having good results on TOTW.
 

SizzleDog

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#9
I've run into te same problem with coats RD - so i"m just adding OmegaDog and coats are better than they've ever been!
 

MafiaPrincess

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#10
If they were lowering price.. Instead they are increasing it. Nice. I love Orijen, but if I could find a bag of TOTW I'd be interested to try it. Sounds good. I love fish that doesn't smell overtly fishy for one..
 

Shahrazade

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#11
Glad I saw this. I've only ever bought one bag of Timberwolf. My dog (normally a garbage disposal on legs) wouldn't touch it for hours after it was poured in his dish, so I never bought more, but always sort of wondered about the company since the ingredients look so good but normally my dog eats anything. I do have a chicken allergy dog also, so I will not buy any more Timberwolf (wouldn't have anyway, but you never know).
 

MafiaPrincess

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#12
People are looking into a class action lawsuit on dogster. Timberwolf is now claiming that it's an AAFCO definition issue, not a them issue..

And it seems that there's always been chicken fat in some of their bags and it was an 'oversight'.. Somehow in two years no one noticed.. so it wasn't there..

People are really really angry.. My dog did well on it, but I couldn't find more so we switched. Yikes... the level of skeazyness is really scary right now to me.
 

SizzleDog

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#13
Wait...what are they suing over? Did TWO lie about their ingredients? I'm sooo confused!
 

MafiaPrincess

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#14
TWO's newest replies to emails seem to claim there have been ingredients not on bags in their food all along, like chicken fat.

So people are suing them over well, lying. Product not matching what the bag said..
They are at least looking into it. I'm not sure if it's actually that viable to sue a large company when no animal has died or gotten provably ill from their product, though it's hugely deciectful..
 

ihartgonzo

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#15
Oh, man... I feed TWO for kibble meals, and I love it. =/ I still have the old formula, and I'll try out the new formula. I'll switch if I notice anything funny with the boys.

I think it's ridiculously stupid to sue them over, though. Srsly. Some people are soooo sue-happy!
 

Chewbecca

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#16
Oh, man... I feed TWO for kibble meals, and I love it. =/ I still have the old formula, and I'll try out the new formula. I'll switch if I notice anything funny with the boys.

I think it's ridiculously stupid to sue them over, though. Srsly. Some people are soooo sue-happy!
And some companies are messing with the health of some pets out there. And some companies need to be held responsible for their actions. How else are the people that trusted their foods going to make them take responsibility for their actions???

I agree that people can be sue-happy, but what if an allergy dog was fed this and was having problems but their owners said, "Well, it can't be the food because I've been feeding the same food for over a year now and my dog has never reacted before" so they keep feeding the food, never figuring out that it's THE FOOD because the company didn't bother to be RESPONSIBLE to their customers by changing the ingredients on the bag.

It's fraud. Plain and simple. Even if their ingredients didn't change, it's still fraud and they should be held responsible for it. So...say, if a pet gets real sick because of a company's screw up, the company should just be able to say "OH WELL. Sorry." when they aren't marking their bags correctly and/or changing their formulas and/or in some way, shape, or form are lying to their customers who trust their pet's digestive health to their food????

I for one have been feeding Ella Ocean Blue for over a year now.
I continued to feed this food even when they wouldn't reveal their manufacturer during the food recalls in March. I still fed the food when they were changing bags and there was that mix up. I still fed the food even though they change employees like most change their underwear. I still fed this food even though their customer service sucks. I still fed this food when they decided to increase their prices. I stuck by them because even through ALL OF THIS, I still believed in the quality of their food.

But now I don't even know WHAT is in their food because they are so fickle with what statements they're releasing to their customers, so OBVIOUSLY they don't even know what's in their own food. And, so, now the quality is in question. Since the quality is in question, I am not feeding this food anymore. There's no reason for me to.

Sorry, for now Ella's back on Orijen Fish.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#17
And some companies are messing with the health of some pets out there. And some companies need to be held responsible for their actions. How else are the people that trusted their foods going to make them take responsibility for their actions???

I agree that people can be sue-happy, but what if an allergy dog was fed this and was having problems but their owners said, "Well, it can't be the food because I've been feeding the same food for over a year now and my dog has never reacted before" so they keep feeding the food, never figuring out that it's THE FOOD because the company didn't bother to be RESPONSIBLE to their customers by changing the ingredients on the bag.

It's fraud. Plain and simple. Even if their ingredients didn't change, it's still fraud and they should be held responsible for it. So...say, if a pet gets real sick because of a company's screw up, the company should just be able to say "OH WELL. Sorry." when they aren't marking their bags correctly and/or changing their formulas and/or in some way, shape, or form are lying to their customers who trust their pet's digestive health to their food????
Bingo.

I would be one hot mad dog mama right now if I had been feeding that food to Buddy. When I read an ingredient list, I want to KNOW what I am feeding my dog. And there are allergy formulas out there for a reason, so that means they have to have what the ingredient list says and nothing else. It's absolutely shameful for a company to "forget" to include something- at the risk of what? Dog's lives? Absolutely disgusting...
 

ihartgonzo

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#18
I would understand suing IF the food actually effected your dog, in any way... but suing "just because", to me, is being sue-happy. If it is that much of an issue, I understand switching dog foods and letting the company know that you are displeased, but I do not understand filing a lawsuit with no harm done.

I'm not saying it's ok... but personally, I don't agree with suing UNLESS you actually experienced problems. Your dogs have obviously done well on the food. My dogs love the food, and it is still one of my favorite kibbles, even though I don't feed kibble often. It isn't ok to lie, but this is probably just a mix-up, and they are obviously correcting it now.
 
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#19
False labeling is false labeling, whether or not anyone is hurt. It's unethical and dishonest.

And the new formulas do look like a considerable downgrade. Wonder if they got bought out by someone like Purina :rolleyes:
 

MafiaPrincess

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#20
I agree that people can be sue-happy, but what if an allergy dog was fed this and was having problems but their owners said, "Well, it can't be the food because I've been feeding the same food for over a year now and my dog has never reacted before" so they keep feeding the food, never figuring out that it's THE FOOD because the company didn't bother to be RESPONSIBLE to their customers by changing the ingredients on the bag.
I actually know someone who freaked last night because of that.. Her dog is allergic to so much it is getting to be awfully sad. Been tested twice now, can't avoid everything environmental, but she tries hard. Turns out the TWO she fed seems to have contained oats and chicken fat, and possibly rice. He;s allergic to oats, rice and anything that might have ever come from poultry though it's not common. Spent over 6 months feeding him the food, since it couldn't have been the food.. He's been on raw for a few months and is doing better than ever.. if she'd only known, she'd have switched ages before..
 

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