Fact and opinion *soapbox warning*

Discussion in 'Buried Bones' started by Gempress, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    I just have to say something about this. It's been on my mind lately. Sorry for the insanely long post, but it's a bit complicated.

    I've noticed that many of our debating threads seem to have a few common complaints regarding opinion. Most of the ones I've seen are: "I guess only certain people are allowed opinions"....."aren't people entitled to their own opinions and free speech?"...."I said it was an OPINION, stop taking it personally and bashing it"......"Why do people treat me like this over an opinion?"

    There seem to be two common factors that lead to these complaints:
    1. Not understanding the difference between fact and opinion
    2. Not understanding the freedom of speech and the "sanctity" of opinions.

    Let me start with Number 1. Here is the definion of an opinion: "A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof." Basically, an opinion is a viewpoint or idea that cannot be proven or disproven. For example, "Working dogs are much cuter than sporting dogs."

    Now, here is the definition of fact: "Knowledge or information based on real occurrences." For example, "Dogs are related to wolves."

    Now, here is where it gets confusing. Just saying something is an "opinion" does not make it an opinion. For example, you can't say "In my opinion, pit bulls have locking jaws." That is NOT an opinion, even though you called it an opinion. It is an untrue statement. Why? Because it can (and has been) disproved.

    If you post that statement on Chaz, expect to get a lot of people telling you it's wrong. And don't get mad at the posters for "attacking my opinion". After all, what you said is not a matter of opinion. And people aren't trying to be mean or rude by telling you that you're wrong. Most people visit Chaz to find good advice and knowledge about their dogs. We try to be sure they get the most accurate information possible. If something obviously incorrect is posted, you can bet that other members will try to clarify.

    *takes a deep breath*

    Now for Number 2. Everyone is entitled to have their opinion. All the more power to you. But remember....it is a two-way street. If you post a hugely unpopular opinion "I think all dogs over 25 lbs should be banned in cities because it makes things safer," expect to get a lot of negative response. Yes, you have the right to speak your mind....but so does everybody else. Don't complain because people get upset at your opinion, or feel picked-on because nobody else agrees with you: that is our right as free-thinking beings.

    Just food for thought.
     
  2. Denaluvscorgis

    Denaluvscorgis Corgi bum

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    In 100% agreement!!;)
     
  3. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

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    That is so not true, I cant believe you would say such a thing :p

    J/K

    Good Post :) more people need to read it, I think it is worthy of being stickied :D
     
  4. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    *thundering applause* excellent post Gem.

    I'd just like the ad that Chazhound is a privately owned forum so the 'free speech' idea falls within the rules of Chaz. Just like they would in someone's home. If someone comes to my home and bashes family members or acts like an idiot I will ask them to leave. Common sense people. :)
     
  5. Roxy's CD

    Roxy's CD New Member

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    Agreed 100% :D

    Great post :)
     
  6. Wonderful Gemp!! Bravo!

    Me thinks this should be made into a sticky!
     
  7. Melissa_W

    Melissa_W New Member

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    OMG, thank you for that post! Some people really need to understand those concepts.
    Bravo!
    *standing ovation*
     
  8. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    100% Agreed!!!!!!!
    nice post gemp
     
  9. Brattina88

    Brattina88 Active Member

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    I totally agree!!
    Great post!!! :D
     
  10. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    Fantastic post Gempress - not just my opinion...that's a FACT!:D
     
  11. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    *clapclapclap*

    Well said!! :D
     
  12. Bailey+Ralph

    Bailey+Ralph New Member

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    Very good post Gem :)
     
  13. Aussie Red

    Aussie Red Rebel With Cause

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    good job and real food for thought. opinions are just that and everyone has them . Getting personal and bashing is uncalled for and I have seen alot of that and that is the sort of thing that needs to stay out of it. I disagree with many things posted here and opt not to say anything because I know what will happen. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and if mine are wrong I am far more likely to listen if talked to sensably, logically and respectfully. If you attack me then game over.
     
  14. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    So what are facts that can be proven AND disproven? lol That's the problem with facts. Someone out there has done research and has 'evidence' they aren't true. ... I'm so annoying.
     
  15. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Kudos Gem !!!! I'm raising my evening glass of whine to you !!!
     
  16. Jules

    Jules Magic, motherf@%$*#!

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    Wow...awesome post...just what we needed!
     
  17. Angelique

    Angelique New Member

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    Great post and a wonderful sticky! ;)
     
  18. Squidbert

    Squidbert Scum scum scum scum..SCUM

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    YAY!!! You said it wonderfully!!!! :D

    I just wanted to add that most times when a debate turns to an argument there is an occurance, like you stated, where someone tries to state an untrue fact as an opinion, and ALSO when people become very rude in how they word their opposing views. There is no need to belittle someone elses view when expressing your opposing view. Beliefs are BELIEFS, regardless of who has the most facts to back up their personal views and regardless of whether or not you feel the other persons belief is just silly.. RESPECT is the number one issue when it comes to debates turning to arguments..
    When someone has a belief that they hold VERY dearly, belittling that, or making jokes about it will only turn things into an argument.. and at that point you will no longer be expressing views and opinions.. instead you will be arguing about rudeness and disrespect.
     
  19. Whisper

    Whisper Kaleidoscopic Eye

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    EXCELLENT sticky. I agree 1,000,000 % ;)
     
  20. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

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    bump bump bump ;)
     

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