Entlebucher Sennenhund
- Thread starter phillo
- Start date
UPDATE - Breeder Gives Opinion
i'm lucky to live less than 2 hrs from an approved entlebucher breeder. my roommate and i met her at her farm in maine.
the breeder thought jack appeared to be an entlebucher, met all the breed standards except for having slightly longish hair (this did not 'disqualify' him it just wasn't ideal).
her belief was jack is not mixed but produced by two entlebuchers though not by approved breeders. my roommate and i had also come to this conclusion.
the photos i put in my original post had been taken less than a month after i found jack. when i found him he was severely malnourished. somewhere i read this dog is often mistaken for a mixed breed.
i'm lucky to live less than 2 hrs from an approved entlebucher breeder. my roommate and i met her at her farm in maine.
the breeder thought jack appeared to be an entlebucher, met all the breed standards except for having slightly longish hair (this did not 'disqualify' him it just wasn't ideal).
her belief was jack is not mixed but produced by two entlebuchers though not by approved breeders. my roommate and i had also come to this conclusion.
the photos i put in my original post had been taken less than a month after i found jack. when i found him he was severely malnourished. somewhere i read this dog is often mistaken for a mixed breed.
(Edit - we were posting at the same time).
A lot of the physical characteristics and personality traits you describe fit other breeds/mixes as well. I had a Rottweiler/Redbone Coonhound mix that could have been Jack's twin brother. Unfortunately, his physical appearance is kind of common in certain mixes unrelated to the Entlebucher breed. And since there is not way to know for sure, then why not? If it makes you happy to say that's what he is, then that's what he is, regardless.
As long as you're happy with him, right?
A lot of the physical characteristics and personality traits you describe fit other breeds/mixes as well. I had a Rottweiler/Redbone Coonhound mix that could have been Jack's twin brother. Unfortunately, his physical appearance is kind of common in certain mixes unrelated to the Entlebucher breed. And since there is not way to know for sure, then why not? If it makes you happy to say that's what he is, then that's what he is, regardless.
As long as you're happy with him, right?
True, but did you ever hear the expression if it looks like a duck....etc. Below is a long list of behavioral/personality traits associated with the Entlebucher, I've only included those traits I've observed in my dog Jack over the past 8 months. I just copied/pasted and and changed names and pronouns. It's a long list and some of it might be repeated.
i am thrilled with him and considering his appearance and unusual collection of behavioral traits, with all of the research i've done on the breed, and all the photos i've seen and having met 8 or so dogs in the flesh i'd have to say Jack's an entlebucher.
If it makes you happy to say that's what he is, then that's what he is, regardless. As long as you're happy with him, right?
As long as you're happy with him, right?
you've just described several catahoulas i know including one identical to your dog except for the curled over tail. the point being that many mutts can look like purebreds & even have the same personality w/o ever having a drop of the blood in them. my catahoulaXamerican bulldog was called a nice APBT by a guy that judged UKC shows (at least that's what he claimed).
cool i've never heard of this dog. i did just look at page after page of google images and didn't see any that looked like any kind of swiss mountain dog.
maybe at this point the question should be passed on to a geneticist. my dog has been seen by 2 people familiar with the entlebucher breed, including a NEMDA approved breeder who's been breeding these animals for 11 years. i've also posted a description of jack's behavioral traits/personality along with 20 pictures of him to the entlebucher yahoo group and unanimously it's agreed jack is an entlebucher or maybe an appenzellar.
there's an organization that rescues dogs that are suspected to be entlebuchers based on their appearance in photos; dogs that do not meet the breed standard are not helped. these dogs have been in the US for 20 years. not everyone breeds dogs for the love of the animals; someone could invest not much money in 2 entles and start making big bucks off the pups in a really short period of time. i'm sure someone is doing it. my pet theory is that jack escaped from an entle/swiss mountain dog puppy mill in missouri where i found him. but it's just a fun guess. sometimes people do find rare dogs in random places.
yes, jack could be a rott/beagle who looks and acts just like a swiss mountain dog but he's probably a swiss mountain dog, imo.
maybe at this point the question should be passed on to a geneticist. my dog has been seen by 2 people familiar with the entlebucher breed, including a NEMDA approved breeder who's been breeding these animals for 11 years. i've also posted a description of jack's behavioral traits/personality along with 20 pictures of him to the entlebucher yahoo group and unanimously it's agreed jack is an entlebucher or maybe an appenzellar.
there's an organization that rescues dogs that are suspected to be entlebuchers based on their appearance in photos; dogs that do not meet the breed standard are not helped. these dogs have been in the US for 20 years. not everyone breeds dogs for the love of the animals; someone could invest not much money in 2 entles and start making big bucks off the pups in a really short period of time. i'm sure someone is doing it. my pet theory is that jack escaped from an entle/swiss mountain dog puppy mill in missouri where i found him. but it's just a fun guess. sometimes people do find rare dogs in random places.
yes, jack could be a rott/beagle who looks and acts just like a swiss mountain dog but he's probably a swiss mountain dog, imo.
I think that the above IS true in this case, but not the way you are thinking. If we were in an area that had many of these RARE dogs then by all means it would most likely be one. Jack is beautiful, but is likely a mixed breed. My reasoning behind this is I have seen many dogs who look very much like Jack, and they certainly weren't entlebuchers. Your breed trait list matches many many dogs. Basically any hard headed herding breed would really fit the traits that you have listed, or a mixed breed that has herding genes.
And as you said a breeder said he could be one, but from many of the sites that I have looked at breeders also say that they look like a rottie/beagle cross. Here in North America we have many more rotties and beagles than entlebuchers.
If you want to call him an entlebucher, by all means go right ahead. I'm not sure why you
are so defensive about him being a pure swiss mountain breed. Yes, he looks like one, but he looks like many other mixed breeds aswell. Either way, I'm sure Jack's a great dog. Enjoy him...regardless of whatever he is.
And as you said a breeder said he could be one, but from many of the sites that I have looked at breeders also say that they look like a rottie/beagle cross. Here in North America we have many more rotties and beagles than entlebuchers.
If you want to call him an entlebucher, by all means go right ahead. I'm not sure why you
are so defensive about him being a pure swiss mountain breed. Yes, he looks like one, but he looks like many other mixed breeds aswell. Either way, I'm sure Jack's a great dog. Enjoy him...regardless of whatever he is.
Another one from MO???
We rescued a puppy that was found in the woods of MO in Feb. He obviously is a mix but yesterday while walking, we met a dog who looked just like him. (except Charlie doesn't have the white blaze or tail) Their dog was a rescue also but they've been told it's probably part Entlebucher. They said that Charlie looks like an Entlebucher mix and that his body and coat are very characteristic, as are all his behavioral traits. If there are Entie puppy mills in MO. there could be some feral that are cross breeding. We are also in the Boston area, the "New England All Breed Rescue" picks up abandoned puppies from MO, TN, AL, GA and transports them to New England for adoption. He's only 4 months in this photo.
We rescued a puppy that was found in the woods of MO in Feb. He obviously is a mix but yesterday while walking, we met a dog who looked just like him. (except Charlie doesn't have the white blaze or tail) Their dog was a rescue also but they've been told it's probably part Entlebucher. They said that Charlie looks like an Entlebucher mix and that his body and coat are very characteristic, as are all his behavioral traits. If there are Entie puppy mills in MO. there could be some feral that are cross breeding. We are also in the Boston area, the "New England All Breed Rescue" picks up abandoned puppies from MO, TN, AL, GA and transports them to New England for adoption. He's only 4 months in this photo.
Old thread but I wanted to reply to Saintgirl. I felt and came across as a little defensive because 100% of the responders to this thread completely disagreed with me and a few were really patronizing. I don't know if that's the overall tone of this board but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Entlebuchers are dogs and not magical fairy creatures. They've been bred in the US for about 30 years and yes, strays and rescues exist. There is an organization that rescues Entles based on in the flesh visual inspection and they don't save dogs they don't believe are Entles. I brought my dog to be seen by the only AKC approved breeder in the Northeastern US who's been raising these dogs for a decade and who decides if dogs will be rescued by Entle rescue or not and she said yes, this is an Entle, not a mix.
Of course my dog could be a mix it really makes no difference. I didn't understand the negative responses I got to my posts and that might be where my defensiveness came from.
Entlebuchers are dogs and not magical fairy creatures. They've been bred in the US for about 30 years and yes, strays and rescues exist. There is an organization that rescues Entles based on in the flesh visual inspection and they don't save dogs they don't believe are Entles. I brought my dog to be seen by the only AKC approved breeder in the Northeastern US who's been raising these dogs for a decade and who decides if dogs will be rescued by Entle rescue or not and she said yes, this is an Entle, not a mix.
Of course my dog could be a mix it really makes no difference. I didn't understand the negative responses I got to my posts and that might be where my defensiveness came from.
We had a very nice Entle at my former place of employment. Your dog is not an entlebucher. He has the wrong build, the markings are off, and he doesn't have the face of one.
Literally the first time I met an entle I wondered why would someone cross a swiss to a beagle?
I guess i wonder why it matters?
Literally the first time I met an entle I wondered why would someone cross a swiss to a beagle?
I guess i wonder why it matters?
That's funny, the 1st time I walked my dog in Boston a guy ran over and asked,
'Bernese/Beagle?!'
Strangers sometimes ask what breed Jack is, rarely they'll ask if he's a mix and most most (who are familiarJack is a SMD am usually asked if he's a Bernese or Greater Swiss puppy like today at a dog park in the city a girl looked at me funny when I told her he was a yr and a 1/2 and asked why he was so small,
'he's a Greater Swiss, right?'
There seem to be 2 different types of Entle; 1 is more squat and has stubbier legs and is likely similar to the Entlebucher you knew:
and 1 is leaner with longer legs; the breeder I brought him to referred to Jack as 'one of the tall ones' (though the dogs she breeds are the more compact type):
It's my amateur opinion that the 'taller' Entlebuchers are more Appenzellar as the faces (and body shape) of the taller Entles looks more like the Appenzellars.
From Entlebucher.org:
I thought so too but apparently they fit the breed standard and the only dogs I've seen with the same markings have been Bernese, Entles and Greater Swiss. When I brought my dog to be seen by an Entle breeder I pointed out that his chest markings were asymetrical but she said that was not uncommon and showed me a 'discrepancy' in 1 of her dog's markings. Interestingly, I met a couple with their purebred Greater Swiss at a dog park with barely any markings at all - mostly black with some outlines - but it was still obviously a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog.
Sandi Guillemette on the board of directors of the National Mountain Dog Club of America and an Entlebucher breeder for a decade who met the dog disagrees.
From a member of the yahoo Entlebucher group:
Does it matter in the grand scheme? No. But I like a challenge and I'm trying to figure out why every single person that reads this thread and is motivated to respond, like you, disagrees with me absolutely but all the Entlebucher 'experts' I've met who've seen the dog in the flesh disagree with you. Also, all the 'amateurs' who know Jack and have looked into the breed say, 'duh, of course he's an Entlebucher'. It's not just the markings but the body shape, behaviors, postures, facial bone structure.
A lot of people who've responded to this thread have said roughly 'I had a dog that looked just like yours but was a ____ (fill in the blank mix) and I'd love to see photos of those dogs. I've looked up pictures of Bernese mixes, Rottweiler mixes, Entlebucher mixes, studied so many dogs but Jack only looks like a SMD. I think dog genetics is fascinating and if a random mix can produce a Swiss Mountain Dog what else is possible?
I think it's a really cool mystery and I'm trying to keep the discussion going though I'll try to refrain from being bitchy (and defensive) if anyone else responds.
'Bernese/Beagle?!'
Strangers sometimes ask what breed Jack is, rarely they'll ask if he's a mix and most most (who are familiarJack is a SMD am usually asked if he's a Bernese or Greater Swiss puppy like today at a dog park in the city a girl looked at me funny when I told her he was a yr and a 1/2 and asked why he was so small,
'he's a Greater Swiss, right?'
There seem to be 2 different types of Entle; 1 is more squat and has stubbier legs and is likely similar to the Entlebucher you knew:
and 1 is leaner with longer legs; the breeder I brought him to referred to Jack as 'one of the tall ones' (though the dogs she breeds are the more compact type):
It's my amateur opinion that the 'taller' Entlebuchers are more Appenzellar as the faces (and body shape) of the taller Entles looks more like the Appenzellars.
From Entlebucher.org:
I thought so too but apparently they fit the breed standard and the only dogs I've seen with the same markings have been Bernese, Entles and Greater Swiss. When I brought my dog to be seen by an Entle breeder I pointed out that his chest markings were asymetrical but she said that was not uncommon and showed me a 'discrepancy' in 1 of her dog's markings. Interestingly, I met a couple with their purebred Greater Swiss at a dog park with barely any markings at all - mostly black with some outlines - but it was still obviously a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog.
Sandi Guillemette on the board of directors of the National Mountain Dog Club of America and an Entlebucher breeder for a decade who met the dog disagrees.
From a member of the yahoo Entlebucher group:
Does it matter in the grand scheme? No. But I like a challenge and I'm trying to figure out why every single person that reads this thread and is motivated to respond, like you, disagrees with me absolutely but all the Entlebucher 'experts' I've met who've seen the dog in the flesh disagree with you. Also, all the 'amateurs' who know Jack and have looked into the breed say, 'duh, of course he's an Entlebucher'. It's not just the markings but the body shape, behaviors, postures, facial bone structure.
A lot of people who've responded to this thread have said roughly 'I had a dog that looked just like yours but was a ____ (fill in the blank mix) and I'd love to see photos of those dogs. I've looked up pictures of Bernese mixes, Rottweiler mixes, Entlebucher mixes, studied so many dogs but Jack only looks like a SMD. I think dog genetics is fascinating and if a random mix can produce a Swiss Mountain Dog what else is possible?
I think it's a really cool mystery and I'm trying to keep the discussion going though I'll try to refrain from being bitchy (and defensive) if anyone else responds.
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Nobody means to be patronizing or "rough." Just honest. A lot of people come here thinking the dog they found on the street is a rare breed, even if the breed is so rare there are only a few hundred left in the world.
No one's saying that the Entlebucher is some magical creature, just that's it's a rare breed.
It's just unlikely that your dog is part Entlebucher, and even less likely that he's purebred. We're just telling you truthfully that it's a pretty slim possibility. Not impossible. Just unlikely.
My neighbor has a dog that is a dead ringer for the Ca De Bestiar. She looks a lot like one, and her looks don't change regardless of being seen by a random person on the street or by an expert of the breed. The fact doesn't change though, that she's a lab/German shepherd mix.
There are only four EMDCA approved breeders in America. Not a lot of breeders. Some breed clubs list hundreds of approved breeders, just for comparison of how many of those dogs are being bred here.
I know it's fun to try to figure out what's in a mix, and it's cool when you find a rare breed your dog looks like. The truth is, though, you'll never know what breeds are in your dog.
No one's saying that the Entlebucher is some magical creature, just that's it's a rare breed.
It's just unlikely that your dog is part Entlebucher, and even less likely that he's purebred. We're just telling you truthfully that it's a pretty slim possibility. Not impossible. Just unlikely.
My neighbor has a dog that is a dead ringer for the Ca De Bestiar. She looks a lot like one, and her looks don't change regardless of being seen by a random person on the street or by an expert of the breed. The fact doesn't change though, that she's a lab/German shepherd mix.
There are only four EMDCA approved breeders in America. Not a lot of breeders. Some breed clubs list hundreds of approved breeders, just for comparison of how many of those dogs are being bred here.
I know it's fun to try to figure out what's in a mix, and it's cool when you find a rare breed your dog looks like. The truth is, though, you'll never know what breeds are in your dog.
even people who should know can get it wrong.
i know a nice lady from the bandog board who took her F1 neoXpit to a presa canrio show where the judge had been brought in from the Canary Islands. in spite of something like 20 yrs experience in the breed he singled out the lady's bandog as the best presa at the event and asked her why she wasn't showing.
i know a nice lady from the bandog board who took her F1 neoXpit to a presa canrio show where the judge had been brought in from the Canary Islands. in spite of something like 20 yrs experience in the breed he singled out the lady's bandog as the best presa at the event and asked her why she wasn't showing.