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Eek, I am regretting teaching my dog 'turn'
- Thread starter hotdog2007
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aahaha! It's so funny when they find a behavior they REALLY like.
Kaylee loves to poke things with her nose-A LOT. I taught her kiss and she loves it and the act of doing it is a reward in of itself. When she gets bored with training all I have to do is ask her for a kiss and she gets all happy.
Then I taught her to close a cabinet door...it was a bad idea. She got it the second time I told her to touch the door and understood it needed to stay just by the third time.
She took it and branched it out into anything and everything. She will walk up and close my laptop if she's not getting attention and one time she was laying on my bed with me and my dad opened my door to ask me something and she decided that was enough and got off the bed and slammed the door in his face. She closes drawers if they're open and anything else that can close.
When she gets over excited and stimulated she just starts poking things with her nose, no matter what they are.
She greets people with a nose to crotch poke. Not to sniff, just to poke because it's the perfect level for her. When she does Front it's always interesting because to get perfectly straight in front of me she needs to poke me in the crotch.
I hope her spinning doesn't turn into what Kaylee and her poking turned into!
Kaylee loves to poke things with her nose-A LOT. I taught her kiss and she loves it and the act of doing it is a reward in of itself. When she gets bored with training all I have to do is ask her for a kiss and she gets all happy.
Then I taught her to close a cabinet door...it was a bad idea. She got it the second time I told her to touch the door and understood it needed to stay just by the third time.
She took it and branched it out into anything and everything. She will walk up and close my laptop if she's not getting attention and one time she was laying on my bed with me and my dad opened my door to ask me something and she decided that was enough and got off the bed and slammed the door in his face. She closes drawers if they're open and anything else that can close.
When she gets over excited and stimulated she just starts poking things with her nose, no matter what they are.
She greets people with a nose to crotch poke. Not to sniff, just to poke because it's the perfect level for her. When she does Front it's always interesting because to get perfectly straight in front of me she needs to poke me in the crotch.
I hope her spinning doesn't turn into what Kaylee and her poking turned into!
You can always find a clicker trainer - they're the ones whose dogs start offering up dozens of behaviors as soon as they see a treat. 
Seriously, though, teaching the behavior is the easy part. Teaching the dog to only do the behavior when you cue it is the VERY difficult part. The simplest thing to do is to put it on cue, then just ignore the behavior when you didn't cue it. That way the dog will learn that only when you ask for the behavior does it pay off, so they are less likely to do it without the cue. It's also easy to teach them a "default" behavior. I use stand as a default; I reward the dog for standing still and waiting for the cue, without cueing the stand. That way if they're not sure what they're supposed to do, they will learn to just wait until I ask for a behavior. You can also use the stand when teaching the difference between two cues, for example sit and down. I teach my dogs to sit when I cue sit and down when I cue down, which is a lot harder than it sounds! But it is easier if I reward the stand (don't cue stand, just reward it).
It is really nice, too, when you find a behavior that the dog enjoys doing, because you can use that behavior to reward other, more difficult behaviors. For example, I recently worked with a dog who loved doing hand touches - touching my hand with her nose. So if she did another good behavior, I could reward that with a hand touch. It's just another way of using variable reinforcement and make training sessions more interesting and unpredictable for the dog.
Seriously, though, teaching the behavior is the easy part. Teaching the dog to only do the behavior when you cue it is the VERY difficult part. The simplest thing to do is to put it on cue, then just ignore the behavior when you didn't cue it. That way the dog will learn that only when you ask for the behavior does it pay off, so they are less likely to do it without the cue. It's also easy to teach them a "default" behavior. I use stand as a default; I reward the dog for standing still and waiting for the cue, without cueing the stand. That way if they're not sure what they're supposed to do, they will learn to just wait until I ask for a behavior. You can also use the stand when teaching the difference between two cues, for example sit and down. I teach my dogs to sit when I cue sit and down when I cue down, which is a lot harder than it sounds! But it is easier if I reward the stand (don't cue stand, just reward it).
It is really nice, too, when you find a behavior that the dog enjoys doing, because you can use that behavior to reward other, more difficult behaviors. For example, I recently worked with a dog who loved doing hand touches - touching my hand with her nose. So if she did another good behavior, I could reward that with a hand touch. It's just another way of using variable reinforcement and make training sessions more interesting and unpredictable for the dog.
lol Buster recently learnt "rollover"
... currently teaching him "lie down" still means lie down, not fling yourself over. Also "crawl" doesn't mean start crawling... then crawl sideways... then FLING yourself over. lol its funny to watch but it seems to happen pretty often when we've been working hard on one trick for a while.
... currently teaching him "lie down" still means lie down, not fling yourself over. Also "crawl" doesn't mean start crawling... then crawl sideways... then FLING yourself over. lol its funny to watch but it seems to happen pretty often when we've been working hard on one trick for a while.
Phoebe's favorite command is "spin" too, she loves to do it. She doesn't throw it too much though, she'll only do it if I give a command and she has forgotten what it was (basically I went too fast), she'll do that and "BAM!". the only commands she throws at me for no reason a lot are touch, target and hold. I don't really care what she throws out there when I give no commands as long as she follows the commands I do give.
This is where I am with Auggie, LOL. It's funny because "down" is a command they have to do on the table in agility. I keep picturing me downing him on the table in agility and he then proceeds to roll over... right off the table... *facepalm*
lizzybeth, can you chime in on how to help break the chain? I'm not sure how to approach it. I'll tell him down, he downs, and before I can say "good boy" and treat he's rolling over. After he rolls over he's in the down and just stares at me expectantly. When he doesn't get a treat for that he gets back up and starts offering other behaviours, but as soon as I cue him to 'down' again he repeats with the 'down' and then automatic 'over.' =P I'm not totally sure what to do. I've taken to downing him somewhere that he physically can't roll over (he won't roll into a wall, for example, so if I down him right next to a wall he's stuck in the down) and marking and treating for that, but it doesn't seem to be helping break the chain.
lizzybeth, can you chime in on how to help break the chain? I'm not sure how to approach it. I'll tell him down, he downs, and before I can say "good boy" and treat he's rolling over. After he rolls over he's in the down and just stares at me expectantly. When he doesn't get a treat for that he gets back up and starts offering other behaviours, but as soon as I cue him to 'down' again he repeats with the 'down' and then automatic 'over.' =P I'm not totally sure what to do. I've taken to downing him somewhere that he physically can't roll over (he won't roll into a wall, for example, so if I down him right next to a wall he's stuck in the down) and marking and treating for that, but it doesn't seem to be helping break the chain.
"down" he downs, he starts to roll, you give your "No" and start over.
unless he's been rewarded for rolling over a lot with down commands he should figure it out rather quickly.
If he downs, hears the no and stops his roll, mark and reward.
When he's not auto rolling then mix up downs and rolls and only reward for the asked behavior. Then throw in stands, heels, downs, front's and everything else.
unless he's been rewarded for rolling over a lot with down commands he should figure it out rather quickly.
If he downs, hears the no and stops his roll, mark and reward.
When he's not auto rolling then mix up downs and rolls and only reward for the asked behavior. Then throw in stands, heels, downs, front's and everything else.
I would start by working somewhere where he can't do the roll, like you said next to a wall. Preventing the behavior will go a long way in stimulus control work.
While you're working downs next to the wall, I'd also work on rewarding him for a default position... maybe sit or stand. The default position is where you want him to be when you didn't cue anything. You can have more than one default position - for example, when I'm working on loose leash walking my default is a sit, but when I'm working cues like sit, down, retrieve, go to crate, etc. my default is stand. DON'T CUE the default or click it, but treat your dog when he does it. When your dog knows what to do when he doesn't know what else to do (lol), he will be better prepared to listen to your cue and do what you are asking, rather than guessing and throwing out a whole bunch of different behaviors.
So, you're practicing next to a wall so that he doesn't offer roll overs, click/treating downs, and treating the default position. Your goal is for the dog to go into his default position when you release him and he's waiting for another cue (rather than offering different behaviors), and doing a down - and not offering any other behavior - when you cue down.
Next, you can move away from the wall and practice the same thing. I'd work on rewarding the default before cueing anything. Just stand there and wait for the default, then treat. When he's offering nothing but the default - he's calm and relaxed and focused on you - then cue the down. If he does any behavior besides down, look away until he stops offering behaviors, and wait for him to offer the default; then TREAT the default; you might even give several treats to reward staying in the default for longer durations. Then cue down again. Continue until he starts doing the down when you cue down. When he does downs, release him and encourage/reward him for going into the default position, then cue down again.
Ok, so at this point you should be getting downs when you cue downs - and no other behaviors - and the default when you release him from the down. You should not be getting roll overs because you should not be cueing roll overs; if he offers them he will learn that they don't "pay," that only downs and defaults pay.
Next do the same session, but instead of down you're going to cue roll over. Now only roll overs and defaults will pay.
Now comes the tricky part - teaching the dog to listen to the difference between roll over and down, and choose the right behavior.
Start by rewarding the default. Then cue either down or roll over, and click/treat if he chooses the right behavior. Then release, and reward the default again. He is more likely to do the behavior that just got rewarded, so it will be easier on him (and I suggest to do in the beginning) to cue the same behavior 3-5 times in a row before switching and cueing the other behavior. After each cue, release and reward the default behavior.
If you cue and he chooses the wrong behavior, look away from him for 3-5 seconds, then reward the default behavior and cue again. It will be easier on him (and I suggest to do in the beginning) to cue the same behavior until he gets it right; for example, if you cue roll over and he downs, look away, reward the default, and then cue roll over again.
Keep in mind at this point that cueing a behavior is rewarding. So if you cue down and he rolls over, simply recueing down is a reward for the roll over (especially if he's ever been introduced to a variable schedule of reinforcement). That's why it's important to give him a mini time-out, so that he learns that he chose wrong. I also prefer this method (guess what? It's a No Reward Marker) to using a negative marker, such as "no" (which I guess is also, technically, a No Reward Marker).
Eventually you can progress to making the cues more and more random. Some trainers like to choose ahead of time and make a list of which cues they're going to give, randomly, by flipping a coin or something. If they cue and the dog chooses the wrong behavior, you simply move on to the next cue on your list.
Does this make sense??
While you're working downs next to the wall, I'd also work on rewarding him for a default position... maybe sit or stand. The default position is where you want him to be when you didn't cue anything. You can have more than one default position - for example, when I'm working on loose leash walking my default is a sit, but when I'm working cues like sit, down, retrieve, go to crate, etc. my default is stand. DON'T CUE the default or click it, but treat your dog when he does it. When your dog knows what to do when he doesn't know what else to do (lol), he will be better prepared to listen to your cue and do what you are asking, rather than guessing and throwing out a whole bunch of different behaviors.
So, you're practicing next to a wall so that he doesn't offer roll overs, click/treating downs, and treating the default position. Your goal is for the dog to go into his default position when you release him and he's waiting for another cue (rather than offering different behaviors), and doing a down - and not offering any other behavior - when you cue down.
Next, you can move away from the wall and practice the same thing. I'd work on rewarding the default before cueing anything. Just stand there and wait for the default, then treat. When he's offering nothing but the default - he's calm and relaxed and focused on you - then cue the down. If he does any behavior besides down, look away until he stops offering behaviors, and wait for him to offer the default; then TREAT the default; you might even give several treats to reward staying in the default for longer durations. Then cue down again. Continue until he starts doing the down when you cue down. When he does downs, release him and encourage/reward him for going into the default position, then cue down again.
Ok, so at this point you should be getting downs when you cue downs - and no other behaviors - and the default when you release him from the down. You should not be getting roll overs because you should not be cueing roll overs; if he offers them he will learn that they don't "pay," that only downs and defaults pay.
Next do the same session, but instead of down you're going to cue roll over. Now only roll overs and defaults will pay.
Now comes the tricky part - teaching the dog to listen to the difference between roll over and down, and choose the right behavior.
Start by rewarding the default. Then cue either down or roll over, and click/treat if he chooses the right behavior. Then release, and reward the default again. He is more likely to do the behavior that just got rewarded, so it will be easier on him (and I suggest to do in the beginning) to cue the same behavior 3-5 times in a row before switching and cueing the other behavior. After each cue, release and reward the default behavior.
If you cue and he chooses the wrong behavior, look away from him for 3-5 seconds, then reward the default behavior and cue again. It will be easier on him (and I suggest to do in the beginning) to cue the same behavior until he gets it right; for example, if you cue roll over and he downs, look away, reward the default, and then cue roll over again.
Keep in mind at this point that cueing a behavior is rewarding. So if you cue down and he rolls over, simply recueing down is a reward for the roll over (especially if he's ever been introduced to a variable schedule of reinforcement). That's why it's important to give him a mini time-out, so that he learns that he chose wrong. I also prefer this method (guess what? It's a No Reward Marker) to using a negative marker, such as "no" (which I guess is also, technically, a No Reward Marker).
Eventually you can progress to making the cues more and more random. Some trainers like to choose ahead of time and make a list of which cues they're going to give, randomly, by flipping a coin or something. If they cue and the dog chooses the wrong behavior, you simply move on to the next cue on your list.
Does this make sense??
I don't seem to get this much from my guys. BUT then I train sit and wait as my default behaviour. Also I have many dogs.
If you have a multiple dog household... I will reward another dog when one is throwing the 'wrong' behaviour out. (I guess if you were training with human edible treats like cheese or roast you could make a big production out of eating it yourself) It works really well. It doesn't take to many reps before the dog learns that trying to 'guess' the answer is a great way to 'loose' the treat.
If you have a multiple dog household... I will reward another dog when one is throwing the 'wrong' behaviour out. (I guess if you were training with human edible treats like cheese or roast you could make a big production out of eating it yourself) It works really well. It doesn't take to many reps before the dog learns that trying to 'guess' the answer is a great way to 'loose' the treat.
Yep, pawing is an extremely self-reinforcing behavior.... most dogs love to do it anyway, so as soon as you teach them that it'll get them treats they're all over that. That's why everyone is banned from teaching my service dogs shake. Occasionally we'll get a volunteer that doesn't know better, and it drives me CRAZY.
Occasionally we'll get a volunteer that doesn't know better, and it drives me CRAZY.