Early spaying- Good idea???

DogtorJ

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#1
Early spaying- Good idea???

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Hi Everyone,

Here is something I posted on another forum that I thought you might be interested in. This is a hot topic...or at least should be.

Get ready. This is gonna be a bit different. (The only problem is that I concentrated on spaying when the poster was talking about neutering her male. I got confused. BUT, all that I wrote applies to BOTH sexes, as progesterone is produced by the testicles and ovaries.)

I hope it helps. Feel free to contact me about this.
John

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Original Post-

I *think* E. is finally ready to be neutered. But I admit, I'm very nervous about this and keep putting off the phone call. For those of you that don't know, E. has EPI and food allergies. Both seem to be under control now and have been for a few months. E. went from 74 lbs down to 62 lbs. His last weigh in 2 weeks ago was at 68.6 lbs.My vet thinks that E. being underweight is a non-issue. I know this is probably a good time to do this because everything seems to be under control.

But what if I'm wrong? What if there is an underlying issue that I don't know about and putting him under the knife makes it flair up? What if putting him under the knife causes some kind of distress and I lose him? I don't have humping or wandering issues with E.. He's with us at all times and is not off-leash outside of our yard.

Am I being an over-protective worry-wart? Should I wait until he regains all his weight and really be sure he's stable? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

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My response-

Hi T.,

Well, I was just about to hit some golf balls on my day off...'til I saw this post.

Here is the latest news flash for all of you. Get ready 'cause this is going to be a JOLT until you understand it. Then it should make all of the sense in the world to you (except for what you have been told in the past). Ready???

Spaying and neutering can be one of the most detrimental things we can do to the health of the dog (or cat...OR PERSON!!!), especially those who have been fighting chronic illnesses leading up to that surgery. "Say WHAT???" you are all saying.

Let me put it to you this way. When is the biggest (medical)crisis in a woman's life? Menopause, right? Yes, countless women are quiet healthy until they become peri-menopausal or go through menopause, either naturally or surgically. Shortly thereafter, their rate of immune-mediated diseases and cancer skyrocket. It happens all of the time. I hear from MANY of these women because of my Website which covers this VITAL issue. Why does this happen?

Very simply because women have something very special coursing through their veins. It is called progesterone. (Men do, too, as it is also produced by the testicles!) Progesterone is a POWERFUL anti-inflammatory. It is actually stronger than cortisone, as proven by vets who used Ovaban (progesterone) to treat cats with allergic skin disease when the prednisone stopped working. Hmmmm... Did you get that??? That's VERY important.

SO, what happens when a pet is spayed or neutered??? YES, they are literally THROWN into "menopause", with their progesterone levels suddenly plummeting. And what was that progesterone doing? It was keeping certain occult/subclinical inflammatory conditions under control (allergies, asthma, IBS, and immune-mediated diseases like lupus, rheumatoid disease, MS/peripheral neuropathies, and many more) It is JUST like taking a dog with severe allergies that has been controlled with cortisone off of his medication. What happens (if you have not gotten to the root of his allergies beforehand)? BOOM...he is scratching and pulling his hair out.

BUT, it gets MUCH deeper and more serious than this. Recent veterinary studies (especially in Rotties) have shown that dogs that are spayed have a MUCH higher rate of bone cancer than unspayed dogs or those spayed late in life. Wow! Now it would take waaaay too long to explain this completely but this does make total sense once you understand lectins, viruses and their interaction along with the immune systems control of this process. Progesterone is VITAL in moderating this process. BUT, this hormone is basically, simply buying you time. It is helping to keep this process covered-up until you are overwhelmed by it later IF you do not do something about it before hand.

And it is not like we are not getting warning signs, right? The heartburn, IBS, chronic fatigue, joint pain, migraines, ADHD, insomnia, etc etc etc are ALL warning signs, not bona fide diseases. They are screaming at us that we doing something very wrong, with our diets being the biggest wrong. Whodathunk heartburn (or vomiting in the dog) was a warning sign, eh?

This will turn the spay and neuter ideas upside down. It is already happening as we have learned that the ovaries and testicles are not just for breeding. (Man, are we short-sighted). Yes, it is important to control the stray population. I am not suggesting otherwise. BUT, for the responsible owner to spay their dog too early could be cataclysmic to their health, especially is they do not prepare them properly.

And there IS a way to prepare them (and prevent mammary cancer the RIGHT way). Get them off of the "big 4" (gluten, dairy, SOY, and corn). These foods are not only doing the intestinal harm, but they are providing LOADS and LOADS of estrogens to the dog (and people). Progesterone is the antidote to estrogen and when an individual is spayed or goes through menopause, they are left holding the BIG bag of estrogens, which are inflammatory, neurostimulating and immune suppressive by nature. Again, this cane be CATACLYSMIC to the health of the individual, especially women (and female dogs). Anyone who knows anything about women's health can see the truth in this.

Here's the good news. The ovaries do not produce enough estrogen to set the stage for the virus that causes breast cancer. Now that was a loaded statement. Did you get it all? Yes, VIRUSES cause breast cancer just like other cancers. Put "breast cancer, virus" in your search. You will also read about the upcoming breast cancer vaccine (Hey, just like the cervical cancer vaccine. Whadyaknow?)

And, estrogens ARE a major player in the development of breast cancer because they are inflammatory and immune suppressive, a deadly combo when viruses are around. They "LOVE" that kind of stuff.(but see my new section "Viruses- Friend or Foe".) BUT, the ovaries don't produce enough estrogen to do this harm (that is why you CYCLE...to give the "anti-inflammatory" progesterone time to make the recovery). It is the estrogens that we are CONSUMING on top of what we make that breaks our (and their) back. See that? (You don't hear much about the 6000 men per year afflicted by breast cancer, do you? I had to put to sleep an old male dog last week that I removed a malignant mammary tumor from 8 months ago. Where are those estrogens coming from???)

So, when we recommend spaying to prevent breast cancer it is like removing their legs so they don't wander out in the street and get hit by a car. See that? We remove the natural source of estrogen so that they can better tolerate the unnatural sources. Talk about pretzel logic!

And it does help prevent mammary cancer...at the EXPENSE of every other immune-mediated disease which run rampant in the absence of progesterone. Now you know why hypothyroidism occurs sooooo early in the dog. I have had spayed females develop it by 8 months of age.

Bottom line? Listen to your intuitions. You are RIGHT to be nervous about this. You may ultimately want or need to spay (neuter) her (him) later. BUT, she (he) MUST be prepared properly and be healthy. She (He) will be healthier longer if left un-spayed (un-neutered).

I hope this helps,
John


PS. Another HUGE source of estrogens are environmental sources, including insecticides. I am sooo glad that we are on the backside of using so many of the old pesticides. We WILL see less breast cancer as a result of eliminating these. Everyone needs to put "environmental estrogens"in their search, especially women at risk to breast cancer, endometriosis/PCOS, and other estrogen-related disorders. YES, pyometra is chronic endometrial hyperplasia and is an ESTROGEN-related disorder, brought on the combination of too much estrogen and not enough progesterone. And like breast cancer, if we eliminate the outside sources of estrogen, we should not see these ugly things happen.

PSS. Here is one of the Rottie/bone cancer studies- http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/con...ull/11/11/1434
 
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#3
So are you talking just female dogs? Because I honestly am not experienced with female dogs, only males and cats. My male dog came neutered already so he doesn't count. I have all the cats that come to me spayed or neutered at 2-4 lbs because you cannot always guarentee that the owner is responsible enough. All the dogs I know of are shelter dogs and they are spayed or neutered as puppies before going to new homes.

What about other diseases unspayed females can get like Pyometra? That is a bad one and only prevented by spaying the dog/cat and only cured by spaying the dog/cat?
 

Saintgirl

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#4
I don't entirely disagree with you(I prefer to wait myself), but I do feel that you have misled some people into thinking that spaying and neutering can be wrong, you clearly said how it can be detrimental to a dogs health. However over population to the canine world is much more detrimental as nearly 8000 dogs daily are being euthanized, but I am sure you are already aware of this. Are 8000 dogs daily dying due to early spay and neuter complications?

Please explain to me how an 8 week old pup being spayed is remotley similiar to a sexually mature woman enduring menopause? I think that this is an incredibly misleading statement because in actual fact the pup will not be facing immediate menopause like you suggested, but will not have the help of those hormones during later stages of development, many of the hormonal depletion faced by menopausal women are hormones that became active during sexual maturation, not as infants like these puppies.

Also, the risks associated to both males and females who are intact are higher in general than altered dogs. Perhaps bone cancer is more prevalent in spayed females, but over all in the grand scheme of things, an intact female has more to worry about when you factor in the risk of pregnancies etc.

I know that you are not rallying against spay and neuter, but I only wish that you would have made it clear that spaying and neutering is a very important part of responsible pet ownership. I understand that you want people to think out all of the ins and the outs about these procedures, but ultimatley in the end these simple operations are a good thing. Breeding should be left to those with beautiful specimens of a breed that will better a breed, not make more. And unfortunatley your post could instill fear over a procedure that is more beneficial than detrimental, adding to the already outrageous pet overpopulation.

Yes, I am playing the devils advocate here because I want people to see the downside of the things that you have said.
 
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#5
I also don't see how menopausal women and 8 week old puppies are in any way similar. Maybe a female dog who has already gone into her first hear, thus making her mature could be sort of compared. But a young puppy who is spayed is in no way similar becuase the pup hasn't even matured, so you are not cutting off any natural event (heat in dogs like periods in females). If anything your comparison would be a good arguement on why you should have the female dogs spayed BEFORE their first heat rather then avoiding spaying at all.
 
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#6
This is a subject I've recently become familiar with and have had some discusion with various doctors, both practicing and in research.

I don't know that you can say that there was a true concensus, but from what I could poll was agreeing with delaying the neutering until maturity. Fewer thought the benefits for the female would out-weigh the negatives though.

Here is an interesting article on the subject, but more importantly the referenced material is included at the end.
http://www.doggedblog.com/doggedblog/2006/05/its_just_that_t.html

I've come to this issue with the recent diagnosis of osteosarcoma for my golden,Rusty. I think as certain risks start piling up due to breed selection, it is only natural to weigh what is the best line of care. It is terribly disappointing to run up against the "greater good" argument of spay/neuter each time the issue is brought up. That has nothing to do with the individual dog and his proper care, it has to do with resigning ourselves to the averages.

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quote:
"...but I do feel that you have misled some people into thinking that spaying and neutering can be wrong, you clearly said how it can be detrimental to a dogs health. However over population to the canine world is much more detrimental as nearly 8000 dogs daily are being euthanized, but I am sure you are already aware of this. Are 8000 dogs daily dying due to early spay and neuter complications?"
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This kind of logic is really counterproductive. Rather than advancing the science, it chooses to embrace painting with a broad brush. We might be able to do better than that if we can imagine it. A simple solution could be that certain breeds are given a contraceptive that shows to be less detrimental. Just don't drown out the debate with the well intended habit of S/N.
 

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