Dog Whisperer

[tempura tantrum]

I have to say I am one of those people who thinks Shiba people are nuts. They are darned cute but sure not easy to motivate and train. A gal I train with has three of them and she has obedience titles on one (I think a CDX) and is competing in rally and CKC agility with them. We call her the Queen of Shibas
The wierd thing is she also owned and competed with a dobie-- what a weird combo!

LOL. We embrace the craziness. Our BOB winner at the national this year had a CDX- pretty impressive for a breed that really IS hard to motivate. They pick things up SO quickly (Tai learned to sit in about 5 minutes), it's just getting them to KEEP doing it that proves tricky. They get bored so easily, and they take a perverse joy in making you look bad in front of people you want to impress.

That being said my boy has learned all the basic obedience stuff (sit, stay, down, come, "watch me," and a nice swing finish), as well as silly pet tricks (kiss, high five, hide and go seek, shake, crawl, dance,and jumping over people). He really loves agility too- I just tend to get neurotic about making sure I don't lose my dogs at outdoor events.

With Kimi I didn't bother with a lot of the basic obedience stuff. I tought her to stand instead of sitting, because the showkids that learn to sit always try to do it on the table. She does know a few REALLY stupid tricks- mostly stuff for the showring. I taught her to back up and fix her free stack by saying "back that thing up."

And as bizarre as it is, she learned agility by *watching* Tai do it. She's been easy as pie in that regard...I just can't trust myself to take off that leash in an open field.

And I know what you mean about the weird breed combos. The country's best agility Shiba was a dog owned by Ken Fairchild, who also competed successfully with BCs, LOL. "Kiri" was an awesome dog- I think he ended up being MACH 3, but I'm not quite sure. At any rate, he died this year- so sadly we'll have to look for a new rising star.

They really do act like they look; a bit scruffy, truculent, not very friendly, ragged around the edges, and they smell like dog all the time. A great dog for a bunch of men to take hunting for a week at a camp with no power or plumbing. They'll even retrieve your beer from the cooler <burp>. Nothing refined about them what-so-ever.

GAAAAWD I love dogs like this, LOL. Give me a dog with attitude and a sense of humor ANY day. My boyfriend would love the beer-retrieval story. We're looking at getting an ACD sometime in the future, and his ONLY requirement is that we teach the dog how to retrieve beers.

Your dog sounded truly wonderful- makes me wonder if I might have to get one at some point myself...

 

[ACooper]

I must say on the topic of Ceser & his show.......................

I do watch if I happen to be in front of the TV when it's on. It's entertaining, and to be honest I'll admit something even though it is quite awful...............
I wait on the edge of my seat sometimes to see if this is the show that he is REALLY gonna get a good bite from a big dog.
I have seen him several times get a good nip that breaks the skin...............but nothing major.

Call me horrible, but the methods he uses is just asking for it! I do hope people at home do not try some of the crap he does.
As I said, it's entertaining, I enjoy seeing all the different breeds and their issues...............but I wouldn't use more than a couple of his ideas on my own dogs

 

[jason_els]

I just finished watching the entire first season of The Dog Whisperer. Every single thing on the DVDs including the bonus features which include outtakes from the infamous Great Dane episode.

The outtakes show Cesar bringing the dog to the front of the entrance and then waiting. He spent quite a bit of time getting the dog comfortable with putting her front paws on the linoleum. In all, it took about 45 minutes to get the Dane just to stand in the entryway with all four feet on the floor. This was all done prior to the run-up to the door we see in the broadcast episode. I found him pretty patient.

Cesar wasn't terribly bad. He is very good at talking people. He's very good at explaining to dog owners how to be dog owners. Many of the families he talks to are treating their dogs like children, thus their dogs act horribly. Cesar's ability to communicate the needs of the dog to the owners is very good. Yes he uses vague New Agey California speak terms but the owners seem to respond to that without getting offended and that reinforces Cesar's message. Think if you were expecting someone to come into your home to train your child and ended-up telling you all the things you were doing wrong with him instead. Cesar's greatest strength is his rapport with the owners, making them admit their mistakes and helping owners to correct those mistakes.

He is also the best friend PBTs have right now. Time after time he shows us his PBTs in a very positive light, always explaining that it is the owners who cause dog problems. He shows affectionate, happy, non-aggressive PBTs very frequently and doesn't hesitate to use them in demonstrations. He has the widest audience of any dog trainer or advocate ever and I credit him with enforcing the message that it is the people who make the dog.

It could be said that Cesar is better at training people to be dog owners than in fixing the issues of the dogs themselves. To be fair, he does get results and sometimes, those results mean the difference between a dog with a chance and one that's dead. Some of the issues he deals with aren't life-threatening to the dog, they're just inconvenient to the owners, but in more than a few, Cesar is the dog's last chance. We can hope that people will get further training, perhaps happening on one of these forums or buy a few good dog training books, but again, he gets the owners to recognize the dog's behavior is up to them and that's frequently the largest and most difficult hurdle to cross.

I have never seen Cesar physically harm an animal. His methods of flooding may be misrepresented (if the Great Dane segment outtake was representative) by the editing required for doing a TV show, however I believe more positive training methods are appropriate.

It's tough to gauge Cesar's effect. So many of the cases he deals with are last ditch efforts by frustrated owners about ready to surrender their dog to a shelter or have it destroyed. Cesar comes in, corrects the family behavior and then uses methods that work effectively and quickly. Cesar is a big advocate of NILIF. I've seen him say it frequently to owners. I would prefer the cases he works with to have follow-up by a good trainer to work with the dog and family, but at least Cesar has given the family hope and the dog a second chance at life when it was so very close to death.

Yes i'm very concerned with his some of his methods and discouraged that so many dog owners on his show say, "We've tried other trainers and they've all given-up. You're our last hope." Either the other trainers weren't competent or they weren't able to train the family in what they needed to do the way Cesar can. Cesar is inelegant and possibly even dangerous. Some cases he corrects without a problem, others he corrects in ways that could lead to bigger problems down the road and those are the ones I hope he will refer to behaviorists though it appears that some of his clients won't be able to afford it. There are no easy solutions.

 

[Groch]

Jason, excellent post. I would call it "fair and balanced" but I don't think the term has the same connotations since Fox News.

I have seen all of the Dog Whisperer Episodes and to characterize Caesar as simply an ignorant bully is just not true. What initially fascinated me about the program had nothing to do with dogs, it had to do with how he communicates. Caesar is a remarkable communicator, both with people and animals. Malcolm Gladwell wrote an article about his leadership and communication skills last spring. Here's a Link to the New Yorker piece which is well worth reading:

http://www.gladwell.com/2006/2006_05_22_a_dog.html

I have used several clips from Dog Whisperer in the leadership training classes I facilitate. Not to demonstrate how to train dogs, but how to effectively lead people.

That said, his methods do not follow current main stream dog training philosophy and l cringe on a few episodes each year. I will have to check out the DVD for the out takes.

 

[Sugardog]

You can do MUCH better than Cesar as far as training and rehab go.

He is really going to get it one of these days....I've seen several instances where he did something he should not have. I've seen him literally hang a dog, off the ground by a choke collar. I've seen him use choke collars and collar pops on small breed dogs which is just asking for a collapsed esophagus or damaged trachea. I've seen him physically pick up and plop a bulldog onto it's side and hold it there by the neck, this is dangerous because a bulldog has enough problems breathing as it is, they don't need that kind of treatment.

Now, going beyond that....Collar pops and alpha rolls, they work yeah, but there are much better ways.

Flooding, which is when he forces a dog to "face its fears" and get over it....This is debatable. Some dogs can handle it and it'll work. Others it won't and it can push the dog to fear sprung aggression.

Now as far as the dogs he works with.....Think about this one. VERY few of the dogs he has worked with were properly trained. VERY few knew the command sit or stay. VERY few of those people actually took the time to go to an obediance class and learn how to train their dog. Over half of the dogs that he calls "dominant" are not dominant at all, but simply untrained or undertrained. It's all in conditioning and training, it's not all dominate or be dominated as he makes it seem to be.

Another thing about his methods is that they rely heavily on what another dog would do, the alpha dog. Well dog body language relies heavily on tail and ear position. Do humans have a tail? Nope. Do we have ears that we can control and make them stand up or go back? Nope. The dogs aren't going to see what he does as what another dog would do all the time. We lack 2 of the most important communication tools. Second, we are bipedal. Our body is not like a dogs, we are shaped differently, we walk differently, we have a different face... Again this can impede our ability to communicate to a dog like another dog. It just doesn't work all that well. Cesar isn't using "dog body language" even half the time, he's just using brute force. A dog can learn to read and react to our body language 10 times better than a human can immitate a dog. That needs to be taken advantage of.

Finally I'll mention that many aggressions are actually learned. Take food aggression for instance. Gaurding food is a natural behavior. Now the majority of us train our dogs to allow us to take their food or mess with them while they're eating without even realizing it. It's called invisible training. When that training doesn't occur, thats when the dog can start to defend it's food. So a dog growls because a human comes near it's food. The human backs off out of fear of being bitten. BINGO. The dog has just been rewarded for growling and protecting it's food. Thus, it's a learned behavior. Same goes for dogs who are posessive of toys and furnature and people as well. Dogs who rush doors and bolt out, that's also a learned behavior. It's a game of tag to them. People who have their dogs under control have reversed it and taught them that waiting before being let out is a game and much funner than rushing the door and bolting out.

It's all in training and conditioning. You don't need to use force at all to get a well behaved dog.

Finally, the last thing I'll touch on for now is how he deals with dogs who want to chase chickens or cats, or who terrorize the family bird. It's called PREY DRIVE. All dogs have it, although it's engraved in certain breeds more than others. It's not dominance, the dog does not see the animal it's chasing as it's belonging or posession. Thats utterly ridiculous. You don't need to force the dog to lay down and then tease the dog with the animal to get it to stop.

Which brings me to another thing I dislike (sorry, I lied, that wasn't the last one). He basically sets a dog up for failure, like when he puts the rabbit the dog chases on top of the dog and in it's face, or when he plays with the skateboard in front of the bulldog who attacks skateboards. Thats not a good method of training. If your teaching a child how to do math, do you give them the hardest problem in the book and then smack them for not being able to do it or not doing it right? I don't think so. Well thats the equivalent of what he does to the dogs.

You should set your dog up for sucess, not failure.

And last but not least (I promise), you don't know what goes on between the scenes and between shows. I know for a fact that not every dog will respond to his training methods. I used to be a fan of his and adored his methods and used them to teach others. I was also a clicker trainer. I started to encounter dogs who didn't respond to his methods. It made them worse, it didn't work. Thats when I turned around. The first couple dogs I was stunned and didn't know what to do. I ended up swallowing my pride and giving the money back to the owners and apologizing for not being able to help. Then I got creative and I used my brain and found ways to use the clicker and positive reinforcement to cure everything from aggressions to fears to the dog who chases the family cat. I've been positive reinforcement since. And bear in mind that I never had to use any of Cesar's methods on my own dogs because I conditioned them, trained them and socialized them properly in the first place without knowing it.

So trust me on this one, you only see the cases that he is able to help. It is not possible for him to have helped every dog he's encountered with those methods except 2 or 3.

 

[Sugardog]

Ok, I'm sorry, one last thing....

Somebody said he is a pitbulls best friend.....I'm going to have to disagree.

If anything, he is doing more harm than good for the pitbull. Pitbulls ARE dog aggressive, it's bred in them just like it's bred in for retrievers to retreive, german shepherds to protect, border collies to herd and terriers to chase and kill rats.

He is going around telling people that with proper handling, you can train a pitbull not to be dog aggressive. You can eliminate the dog aggression that is bred into them.

Wrong. You can control it, yes, but it will always be there. This is false information being fed to society. Pitbulls are great dogs, but they need people to understand what they were bred to do. Not try to hide it, not think it can be fixed with a few collar pops and a treat.

They need some positive publicity, but not the kind Cesar is giving them. It's dangerous to keep that many pitbulls together. It's just not safe. All the pitbull enthusiasts I know who are educated about their breed know better than to do this. If they have a multi pit household, their dogs are crated when they have to leave or cannot supervise.

If you have small animals or cats, you either don't purchase a terrier, or you keep them seperated and only allow interaction with supervision. Thats common knowledge. That should be the kind of education people should get about pitbulls. If you have other dogs, you either don't purchase a pitbull, or you keep them seperated and only allow interaction with supervision.

 

[jason_els]

Somebody said he is a pitbulls best friend.....I'm going to have to disagree.

That would be me....

And I disagree with you on this. Right now there is nobody out there with anything like the exposure Cesar gets. In the best of all possible worlds everyone would be aware of the pit bull's tendency to be dog-aggressive.

Do you honestly think Cesar is as bad as the breeders who sell pit bulls all but admitting they're breeding the dogs for fighting? Does he do as much damage as the irresponsible breeders who mistreat, mistrain, and then are shocked when their dogs maim or kill someone? Is he worse than the established media irresonsibly hyping the suppposed evils of pit bulls without addressing irresponsible dog owners?

Not in my book. He's a voice in the wilderness when it comes to pit bull advocacy. He may not be perfect but he's all there is with anything like the media clout to get the word out that owners make any dog a blessing or a liability and certainly the only recognized voice when it comes to pit bulls.

We have to deal with what we've got. Seven million dogs are destroyed each year in the U.S. and much of it is because dog buyers have no idea how to live with a dog, how to train it, or even understand that dogs are not children. Cesar has started a dialog, started to get people thinking about how they interact with dogs and how we treat them. I'm appalled by the people who post on this and other dog forums who have no idea what they're getting into or how to handle the human-dog relationship. The myth that it, "calms" a bitch to breed her once? People believe this drivel! On another forum someone's dog appears to have gone blind but she won't take it to the vet because the dog won't let her because the dog knows where it's going?!?! I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find gambl... er ignorance on such a grand scale and these examples are just from today's random readings. Tell them to a read a book? Many of them can't write a properly constructed sentence or even spell the words within it, don't have the time to read, or believe they don't have enough money to buy one. But a TV show, that's something else entirely... THAT they will watch and, one may hope, learn from.

Back in the 80s cats surpassed dogs as the most popular pets in America. In these past two decades people who have never owned dogs are suddenly buying. Many of these people have never lived in a household that had dogs. The walking fashion accessories are a testament to the ignorance people hold about dogs. We're seeing a boom in the frightening situation of a living animal as fad. At least there's somebody out there who advocates responsible ownership if not the most responsible training.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and, in this case, Cesar Millan is the king, at least for now. Because of his popularity other networks are planning their own dog training shows, people are watching Westminster on TV, people are actually learning about how to live with dogs. Cesar isn't remotely perfect but I refuse to discard the value he does bring just for his imperfections.

Seven million lives a year because of our vanity, stupidity, ignorance, and greed. At this point, I'm just happy to see Betty White pushing doggy drugs.

 

[Doberluv]

Education is a good thing and never hurt anybody. This article that the link takes you to, is based on science of learning where it pertains to dogs. I highly recommend reading all of it and then come back and share your comments.

http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm

 

[jason_els]

I highly recommend reading all of it and then come back and share your comments.

Who should?

Whether for me or not, it's a great read! It appears very informative and I'm just on the first page. Animal psychology is fascinating.

 

[Doberluv]

Anyone interested in dogs and their well being.

 

[sam]

That's a great link!

 

[Groch]

Education is a good thing and never hurt anybody.....I highly recommend reading all of it and then come back and share your comments.
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm

Doberluv, great article! I have bookmarked it and will go back again.

One of the linked article was titled "Are you the Alpha?" and said this:

Leadership does not take force, violence or aggression. In fact, those methods are antithetical to good leadership as they violate trust and undermine relationships.........True leaders are quiet, confident, benevolent, fair and consistent. They rarely have to establish their position, their entire attitude communicates leadership and everyone knows it. Dogs and humans who waste time continually blustering to establish their position within the pack, who are not fair and consistent, who waste energy correcting trivial infractions, who can't effectively get a pack to follow their direction are dogs and humans who will not be successful

I think this definition of leadership DOES describe the relationship I see between Caesar and his "pack", as well as the interactions he has with the owners. I do not see "violence or aggression" as having any role in what he does. Please read the description Malcom Gladwell wrote of the infamous tussle in the living room scene, which was by far the most violent episode Caesar has filmed and did result in a bite wound. It was not a fight, it was Caesar demonstrating to the dog that fighting does not work, that violence is not a way to get what you want. Is this a good method for the untrained to emulate, of course not. However, after significant coaching the owner was able to use similar techniques and turn this extreme red zone dog around.

Violence or force play NO role in Caesar's relationship with rehabilitated dogs. He is I think a text book example of a quiet consistent leader.

Added: One difference I do see in what Caesar does and more "scientific" methods is that Caesar believes that dogs live and respond totally in the now and as a result can change instantly if the behaviors of their owners change. This does sometimes result in stress on the dogs part. Not because of pain or fear, but because they are being required to change their antisocial behaviors and reactions immediately, rather than gradually. This is different from human psychology but it appears to work on the dogs.

On the other hand, his description of why his techniques work, describing the "bite" or wolf pack behavior or why exercise works may indeed be all wrong. Anyway, I have more to read, and really appreciate the link.

 

[Jynx]

people can debate this guy till the cows come home,,bottom line, in alot of his cases HE IS the dog's last resort, whether it's because the owner hasn't received (or comprehended) good training elsewhere, whether they humanize their dogs to much, whatever it is,,,most of the dogs on his show are ready to be "dumped" most likely.

I'm not a "big fan" of alot of the things he does, and i can just see him getting his face ripped off someday, (in fact I thought it was going to happen yesterday with Patti Labelles boerbol (sp) anyone see that?)

But I do think he is a good communicator, he exudes alot of confidence and leadership and remains calm (or it seems so)..

In the end, if he hadn't done , whether right or wrong,,what he's done, for most of these dogs, they'd probably be dead..So would I have rather seen Patti Labelles poor dog confined the rest of it's life (it was banned to a kennel for 3 yrs because she was afraid of him and he was only 3.5 yrs old)
to a kennel, or see him get into a home situation with someone who really loved him? I pick the home.

And hey this is TV and the guy is making alotta money doing what he's doing.
HOpefully people DO read the "don't attempt this at home" warning because I do see him push limits and am surprised he hasn't really been mauled yet..

Diane

 

[Herschel]

I very occasionally watch his show and I spend the entire show either laughing or shaking my head at this clown.

For example, in the last episode we watched, he was dealing with an aggressive, neurotic Australian Shepherd. How did he address the fearful dog?

He chased it around the yard and cornered it until he could begin his "tst tst" correction routine. It looked just as absurd as it is scientifically. How is chasing and cornering a dog an example of a "calm and consistent" leader?

 

[Jynx]

well that certainly isn't,,and let me tell ya if he tried that with my male aussie and cornered him, I can guarantee he'd have gotten nailed ,,(it probably wouldn't have made tv tho! LOL)

Most of the shows I've seen, he does seem to exude a confidence (and granted it certainly isn't all of the shows I've seen),,a calmness a, "go about your business, let's do this" type attitude..

I'm not a "follower" of his shows, if it's on I may watch it, but I certainly haven't seen everything he does.

I do wonder IF there are cases he takes on that are never aired? I'm sure we're seeing just what they want us to see.
diane

 

[dogsarebetter]

i just read this first post but i am going to reply anyway

i have seen ceaser hold down a bull dog and choke him! i have watched maybe 8 episodes and that was the only one that i seen any outragous behavior on ceasers part.

oh and did i mention the dog bite him pretty good and drew blood?
whoa what a trainer ceaser is!!!

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

I do not like Cesaer, nor do I like his methods.

~Tucker

 

[Zoom]

This is neither a plus or minus statement in regards to CM, but most dog trainers have been bit at some point in their careers. This doesn't necessarily mean the trainer is bad, just that the dog is a higher risk or was pushed unnecessarily into a violent behavior.

 

[sisco16]

i havent taken the time to read every single reply but i do have his first season on dvd and some of it is a bit harsh.ive never once seen him use an electronic collar though i read that in a previous post which stunned me.

 

[DoglessInSeattle]

i havent taken the time to read every single reply but i do have his first season on dvd and some of it is a bit harsh.ive never once seen him use an electronic collar though i read that in a previous post which stunned me.

I saw an episode where he used an electronic collar. A farmer's dog had begun to chase the tires of the farm equipment. Tractor, truck and some other really big piece, possibly a combine?

The dog had already been injured twice when it bit into a rolling tire and was violently flipped.

IIRC, the dog got two corrections with the collar as it approached a moving piece of rolling stock. The dog fled from the vehicle and then seemed uninterested in chasing them anymore.