Dog Whisperer videos online?

[elegy]

Now this is where it gets very interesting. I never alpha rolled him (I wasn't even going to try that with his big butt), I never hit him or popped him, or scruffed him. I did change my body language and how I acted around him. I took charge and showed his big butt that I was alpha dog, not him, and I wouldn't take his crap.

so how is what you did here different than what nilif is all about? nilif is about leadership and taking charge of the resources available to your dog.

i guess i just simply don't understand what's so earth-shattering about this. any good trainer is going to tell you to be a strong, confident, calm leader. i know i learned that from my first trainer before cesar ever emerged from obscurity.

 

[TopShelfPets]

opcorn: Got butter?

opcorn: pass the salt.

 

[Dekka]

I am all for confident calm leadership...heck I live in a house populated by jack russells.

You can have consequences without punishment. Positive does NOT mean permissive. I was taking regular agility lessons from Lynn (adojrts) all winter. Sometimes Dekka would decide she could make better agility courses than I (hers usually incorported the tunnel a lot more) At a fun match, when she blew me off-decided not to listen. I left the ring (which had been predetermined) and she was too preoccupied to notice. Lynn went in and scooped her up. When Dekka realized I wasnt in the ring, SHE FLIPPED. Since then she has not blown me off, and we have won every agility run we have entered since then (well we came second in one class) which is 7 firsts.

I didn't beat her, or yell, or punish her in anyway. I just removed my leadership from her. You play my way, or you don't play with me. Good leadership isn't about abuse, its about knowing your dog, and what is important to them. *a good leader of people is the same, they care about the concerns of those 'beneath' them.

 

[adojrts]

Lol Dekka her reaction was pretty funny, not a happy camper on any level.

But getting back to body language........body language is a very strong tool to have, if you know how to use it correctly and wisely but using it should be combined with a knowledge of body language of the animal as well. Soft eyes and hard eyes has an amazing effect on animals (people too), especially combined with what you do or don't do with your body. But having said you don't have to use body language to intiminate an animal, which is what Milan does in my opinion. I too see very stressed, intiminated dogs on his show.

Lynn

 

[Bahamutt99]

I disagree Bahamutt. People have gone on with life thinking he has fixed their dogs..but then the dog reverts and bites someone (will see if I can dredge up that link) At least before they KNEW they had a problem.

Yeah, but I'd be willing to bet that Cesar didn't tell them "your dog is fixed." In every show I've watched, he's teaching the owners, not offering a magic overnight cure. Most people lack the ability to follow up on things. Once they see improvement, they think they're done.

 

[Dekka]

But if you read his book or watch his show..he doesn't really teach or tell people how to continue..just catch phrases that don't really mean things "like calm assertive energy.."

And if it isn't helping people as much as say Ian Dunbar's show in the UK why do people defend it. Heck even Oprah has dropped him.

 

[Cattrah]

Ian Dunbar has a show? Oh man I would fall asleep, I bought his book "Before and After Getting Your Puppy" and it was so boring and condescending. I couldn't stand it. I'd rather take Ceasar's Advice. I just use what I like and what is effective for my dog from all the books and shows I've seen and read.

 

[Dekka]

Really I loved Dr Dunbar's stuff. Haven't seen anything good at all from Mr Milans shows..other than excercise them more, but while he might have time to excercise his dogs 6 hours a day, most people don't. But the only people I know who really like him are pet people (who don't know the nuances of dog language) or the other group that LOVES him are the people who think whacking a dog and stringing it up on a choke chain till it passes out...

None of the current even balanced (meaning they use both rewards (sometimes clickers) and punishment) trainers I know of like him. I just don't get how people can watch stressed out, upset dogs and think "wow what a great show" or even, "ah some parts aren't for me, but showing this to the average uneducated pet owner is good"

(did any of you who like him, or think he is harmless, read the articles I posted?

 

[Angel Chicken]

Ok.. .the end of the story.

Coby was rehabilitated. He never has tried to turn on anyone again, and this dog was downright vicious with people. He now lives with my mother a few minutes away from me, and he is her "protector" and heart dog.

Elegy, NILIF didn't work because he just wouldn't. He is one thick headed dog. He wouldn't sit to eat, he wouldn't do a trick for a treat, he flat out would not do anything. It was almost as if he was saying "Meh, who cares? I'm not going to listen to you."

I was scared of this dog. As I said before, he is a huge pit bull/rottie mix and he was mean. All through the NILIF method, I was scared of him. The first time I watched Cesar, he was dealing with a very aggressive dog. I paid attention and saw how he was telling the owners "Look at your body language, come on, shoulders up, head up, stand tall and most of all don't be afraid of him."

I stopped being afraid of him. I took charge and let him know who the boss was. I wasn't doing the NILIF method, because I promised that after he didn't respond to it the first time round, that I wouldn't do it. Plus I felt like crap for making my dog work for everything.

Anywho, Cesar isn't all that bad in my book. He is a great trainer aside from the physical methods he uses.

Dekka, I haven't read the articles, please forgive me. I will read them soon though, I promise. Life's been busy these past couple of days with the upcoming vacation.

 

[Cattrah]

Maybe I like him because he doesn't have the "Holier than thou" complex that all the "respected" and "better" trainers you're referring to have. He seems more likable, people will gravitate and take advice from people they feel aren't talking down to them. It's not a matter of if his techniques are right or wrong or whose is better or worse. People will take advice and guidance when they don't feel like it's being shoved down their throat. Like a dog, it doesn't want to be yelled at and choked and beaten and have his nose smeared in his poop. He's more likely to slink away or do completely the opposite of what you want right? Is human nature any different? Isn't it hypocritical to treat people that way concerning the "right" way to train your dog? Your stupid *slap* to ever DREAM *screaming* of considering THOSE *kick* techniques from that AWFUL AWFUL MAN!!! *smears Dr. Dunbars book in face* DO THIS stupid person!!!!

 

[Dekka]

Umm I don't understand the last sentance, who are you saying is yelling and kicking?

So human training isn't as important as the person who is teaching it? Is that what you are saying. Sorry I am a bit confused. I have watched some Ian Dunbar shows, and have seen him in person (seminar at the University of Guelph) He was very polite, never bad mouths anyone. If you read this article... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL you will notice he finds the positive things to say. So maybe you are confusing him with someone else?

 

[dr2little]

Like Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson is also very personable and approachable. Neither one are harsh or confrontational but what they are is educated and experienced.

I haven't read this whole thread but to say that physical methods are necessary or effective is simply incorrect.

I specialize in aggression and NEVER put my hands on a dog BECAUSE I want to do right by my clients and their dogs.
I provide a manageable and effective program to help owners to create a predictable and truly rehabilitated dog. This simply does not occur with the old school methods such as the ones that Cesar still employs.

He (Cesar) is very charming and he certainly can talk a good game....no question, but it's his lack of evolution in his actual handling of dogs that most professionals have a problem with.

 

[dr2little]

Ok.. .the end of the story.

Coby was rehabilitated. He never has tried to turn on anyone again, and this dog was downright vicious with people. He now lives with my mother a few minutes away from me, and he is her "protector" and heart dog.

Elegy, NILIF didn't work because he just wouldn't. He is one thick headed dog. He wouldn't sit to eat, he wouldn't do a trick for a treat, he flat out would not do anything. It was almost as if he was saying "Meh, who cares? I'm not going to listen to you."

I was scared of this dog. As I said before, he is a huge pit bull/rottie mix and he was mean. All through the NILIF method, I was scared of him. The first time I watched Cesar, he was dealing with a very aggressive dog. I paid attention and saw how he was telling the owners "Look at your body language, come on, shoulders up, head up, stand tall and most of all don't be afraid of him."

I stopped being afraid of him. I took charge and let him know who the boss was. I wasn't doing the NILIF method, because I promised that after he didn't respond to it the first time round, that I wouldn't do it. Plus I felt like crap for making my dog work for everything.

Anywho, Cesar isn't all that bad in my book. He is a great trainer aside from the physical methods he uses.

Dekka, I haven't read the articles, please forgive me. I will read them soon though, I promise. Life's been busy these past couple of days with the upcoming vacation.

I'm really very confused. What exactly did you do....specifically?

 

[Angel Chicken]

I'm really very confused. What exactly did you do....specifically?

I changed how I acted around him, changed my body language, and presented myself in a more... leader type way. I never hit, jerked, yanked, kicked, or yelled at Coby. So in a way I didn't do exactly what Cesar does, I just took the advice in presenting your self as a "pack leader".

You know what I'm saying?

 

[Dekka]

So you acted like you knew what you were doing I find that helps in all aspects of life. If you act like you know what you are doing people follow you.

 

[dr2little]

I changed how I acted around him, changed my body language, and presented myself in a more... leader type way. I never hit, jerked, yanked, kicked, or yelled at Coby. So in a way I didn't do exactly what Cesar does, I just took the advice in presenting your self as a "pack leader".

You know what I'm saying?

I do know what you're saying AC. I think that would be the advice given by any experienced trainer ALONG with some other exercises which would include resource control.

I think that the NILIF program is often misunderstood (not addressing anyone in particular).
NILIF or simply having your dog understand who is in charge of all decisions isn't really about fancy behaviors but rather requiring patience and polite behavior from your dog before things of value are shared.

I have taught NILIF to feral dogs without ever touching them or having them perform any specific behaviors. Often times, a modified NILIF is initially achieved from the outside of an inclosure with a clicker and something that the dog values..usually food. "Dominant" body language never enters the equation, it makes no difference as long as cause and effect remain constant.

While it is always valuable to behave confidently when providing leadership, the way that Cesar blocks and corners dogs is not only unnecessary but can and often does prove to be dangerous and counterproductive.

 

[Doberluv]

the way that Cesar blocks and corners dogs is not only unnecessary but can and often does prove to be dangerous and counterproductive.

No kidding! Almost everyone knows that you don't corner and threaten an animal and yet Cesar does it all the time. :yikes:

I saw an episode (actually a few times. They're really re-running this one for all it's worth) where these two Bulldogs were in their kennels and he put the food bowl down outside of the kennel with the door open. When the one started to come out to get his food, Cesar jabs him HARD in the neck with his "teeth" (lol...fingers) and says, "Cheh!" And again, and again. The dog crouches backwards, intimidated, stressed. (duh....obvious body language of cowering) Then after several repeats of this, he says nothing and allows the dog to come out. There is no cue, no words to tell the dog that it's OK to come out and get his food. He just tippy toes tentatively out as if to say, "Is it OK? Am I going to be jabbed?" It's pathetic. There is no instruction, no signal or cue to differentiate between "stay back" and "come eat." The dog has to guess with insecurity partnering that guess. Cesar attacks this dog with the aggressive, hard poking and his body language....leaning forward and bent at the waist, lunging on one foot toward the dog. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows that this is intimidating and aggressive posturing. That's what he wants though...he wants to intimidate dogs into "behaving" rather than TEACH them what to do.

I could teach a dog to wait in the kennel until released without using those ridiculous quote......end quote methods. The dog would have clear communication to stay... and clear communication when it's OK to get his food. The dog would be relaxed, unstressed and enjoy learning this skill.

For people to say that it doesn't matter what he does because dogs otherwise would be unruly (or whatever) is an incredibly weak argument because there ARE other ways to achieve the same results, only without bullying these poor animals who do not understand what is happening to them.

Another episode, again with a Bulldog, he holds it down and presses into it's neck.... hard. The dog is gasping and sputtering for air as he presses on his carotid artery and his eyeballs are bloodshot. For all I know, with the dog's straining, he's breaking little capalaries in his eyes. Or, as a breeder of Bulldogs said in another forum, they just have blood shot eyes. Anyhow...Cesar says the reason the eyes are bloodshot is that the dog is in a rage....red zone. Pullleeeeeze!!!!!! These poor dogs have enough trouble breathing as it is! This is flat out mistreatment of an animal IMO.

When are people going to get it that this guy is not TEACHING or TRAINING. He's bullying and causing dogs to back down and shut down. You don't have to be in a rage, loud, flailing, beating a dog to be mishandling it, for God's sake.