Renee...I have to say that when it comes to certain breeds, such as yours perhaps, that you are completley correct with the "show dog" being a different breed. I think it is sad actually...I don't like it when the shows become soley a competition of beauty and grooming. The whole purpose of a conformation dog show is to evaluate the conformation of breeding stock, but the whole point behind "proper" conformation if so a dog can carry out it's task that it was meant to do in the first place. I think that there is a very fine line on this isssue. I show pugs, and they have no purpose other than being a good luck charms for royalty and a lap warmer for their human companions. They need to be compact enough to be picked up and sit on a lap and they need to maintain certain features that define them as pugs i.e. curly tail, heavy nose wrinkle, trace down their back etc. Pugs are indeed a "toy" and carry out their purpose well. On the other hand, when you get into working and herding and sporting breeds, they have a purpose that requires instinct and at times, athletic ability. I think it is horrible that some breeders house these breeds and only pursue conformation with them and then breed. If one truly cares about bettering and preserving a breed, then they must breed for the whole dog and protect that very instinct and nature that makes certain breeds unique and capable in carrying out a certain job/task....something the conformation ring can't prove or display. When you breed these certain breeds for conformation alone and ignore their special natural gift then you end up breeding the true spirit out of these breeds and are left soley with a pretty face, solid body, and nothing between the ears. It is sad really, and that is why I will stick to the toys!!!
Dog Show
- Thread starter siemens716
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Renee...I have to say that when it comes to certain breeds, such as yours perhaps, that you are completley correct with the "show dog" being a different breed. I think it is sad actually...I don't like it when the shows become soley a competition of beauty and grooming. The whole purpose of a conformation dog show is to evaluate the conformation of breeding stock, but the whole point behind "proper" conformation if so a dog can carry out it's task that it was meant to do in the first place. I think that there is a very fine line on this isssue. I show pugs, and they have no purpose other than being a good luck charms for royalty and a lap warmer for their human companions. They need to be compact enough to be picked up and sit on a lap and they need to maintain certain features that define them as pugs i.e. curly tail, heavy nose wrinkle, trace down their back etc. Pugs are indeed a "toy" and carry out their purpose well. On the other hand, when you get into working and herding and sporting breeds, they have a purpose that requires instinct and at times, athletic ability. I think it is horrible that some breeders house these breeds and only pursue conformation with them and then breed. If one truly cares about bettering and preserving a breed, then they must breed for the whole dog and protect that very instinct and nature that makes certain breeds unique and capable in carrying out a certain job/task....something the conformation ring can't prove or display. When you breed these certain breeds for conformation alone and ignore their special natural gift then you end up breeding the true spirit out of these breeds and are left soley with a pretty face, solid body, and nothing between the ears. It is sad really, and that is why I will stick to the toys!!!
In our case, some are actually purposely breeding down the temperament - and with it the unique drives - that make the Fila what it is so that it will be more easily handled. The really horrible part is that most of this is being done in the breed's native Brazil! They are very brazen, and will even breed in Bull Mastiff and Great Danes to get a more tractable - and mass marketable - dog.
We've seen the decline of so many breeds: German Shepherd, Doberman, Rottweiler, Labrador, Irish Setter, Dalmation. The Great Danes are so health-challenged now that the owners of their ancestors wouldn't recognize them as the boar hunters they loved and depended on. And I barely recognize the present-day German Shepherd as compared to the German Shepherds I knew as a kid.
I am dreading seeing what happens to the Neo now that it has been recognized by the AKC and is being shown . . .
I think you are being very honest to stick to showing toys, and a dog has no less value because it is breed-determined to be strictly a companion! I think the Pugs are charming - your very own living, breathing, snoring, mischievous Kamashishi
We've seen the decline of so many breeds: German Shepherd, Doberman, Rottweiler, Labrador, Irish Setter, Dalmation. The Great Danes are so health-challenged now that the owners of their ancestors wouldn't recognize them as the boar hunters they loved and depended on. And I barely recognize the present-day German Shepherd as compared to the German Shepherds I knew as a kid.
I am dreading seeing what happens to the Neo now that it has been recognized by the AKC and is being shown . . .
I think you are being very honest to stick to showing toys, and a dog has no less value because it is breed-determined to be strictly a companion! I think the Pugs are charming - your very own living, breathing, snoring, mischievous Kamashishi
It is sad. I see it all over the place, the downfall of certain breeds. Pugs are climbing AKC's popularity list as we speak and you know what that means...I am so upset by the mass breeding and destruction of popular breeds. I pray that there won't be anymore movies with pugs in them because that leads to everyone wanting a pug and in tern everyone breeding their pug for money. I don't like to be a snob and I think all dogs have great value even if poorly bred, but it is so hard to see your average pug on the street, because it looks nothing like the way a pug is suppose to look. They have snouts, practically a straight tail and now people have taken it upon themselves to breed brindle pugs and sell them for top dollar when it is NOT a pug color. The general public has no idea what a pug is truly suppose to look like, because even the ones in the movies look terrible!!! I hate it, I want people to know and want the true pug, the pug that loves everyone and is truly a clown at heart. They have a soft coat and curly tails and when you look at their face from the side it should be completley flat....this is nothing like what I see out and about around here. Many pugs now day have become bossy, territorial and yappy....these are characteristics that should NEVER be acceptable in this breed, true pugs adore everyone and are never fearful or aggressive. When I would put Mabel up on the table for the judge to examine, her tail would wag out of control and she would even attempt a kiss on the lips!!!! That is the true spirit of the pug. All I can say is that it is my job to take the time at the shows to answer questions and speak with the public. I point out the good and the bad and just hope that someday, pugs won't be as popular and that we can get them back to where they need to be
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Hoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiskey wins AGAIN!!!! This time a major!!
Saturday's results:
(3 Points)
1/W 29 FIREDANCE'S WHISKEY STRAIGHT UP. HP 04041110. 10-18-02
By Ch Firedance Remember Who You R - Firedance's Grande Latte.
Owner: Mary Sorosky & MizRight., Santa Barbara, CA 93103. Breeder: Mary Sorosky.
(Mary Dukes, Agent).
Hoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiskey wins AGAIN!!!! This time a major!!
Saturday's results:
(3 Points)
1/W 29 FIREDANCE'S WHISKEY STRAIGHT UP. HP 04041110. 10-18-02
By Ch Firedance Remember Who You R - Firedance's Grande Latte.
Owner: Mary Sorosky & MizRight., Santa Barbara, CA 93103. Breeder: Mary Sorosky.
(Mary Dukes, Agent).
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Hoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiskey wins AGAIN!!!!!
Sunday's results:
(2 Points)
1/W/BW 29 FIREDANCE'S WHISKEY STRAIGHT UP. HP 04041110. 10-18-02
By Ch Firedance Remember Who You R - Firedance's Grande Latte.
Owner: Mary Sorosky & MizRight., Santa Barbara, CA 93103. Breeder: Mary Sorosky.
(Mary Dukes, Agent).
Hoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiskey wins AGAIN!!!!!
Sunday's results:
(2 Points)
1/W/BW 29 FIREDANCE'S WHISKEY STRAIGHT UP. HP 04041110. 10-18-02
By Ch Firedance Remember Who You R - Firedance's Grande Latte.
Owner: Mary Sorosky & MizRight., Santa Barbara, CA 93103. Breeder: Mary Sorosky.
(Mary Dukes, Agent).
Thanks. We are always amazed when he wins. He needs just one more major to get his championship. He's entered in four shows next week and we hope one of them is a major, though on the Internet it looks like he might miss it (not enough dogs), then agaian we dont know enough about all this so maybe he will.
He has 13 points total and one major in there.
Renee750il said:
Sounds like Whiskey's one smooooooth pooch! Sounds like you picked a winner!
Sounds like you picked a winner!
Not sure if my hubby posted this one - but this is one of my favorite pics of him... relaxing at home!Attachments
LOL! Love it . . . I've got a matching pair of those myself:
http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=1275&cat=500&ppuser=148
http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=1273&cat=500&ppuser=148
http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=1275&cat=500&ppuser=148
http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=1273&cat=500&ppuser=148
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ShepherdGirl123 said:
Pro Handlers are stupid! Why would you want some stranger touching your dog?! I can do better than a stupid Pro Handler!
First, have you noticed how MANY shows there are? I show a Yorkie. I can't tell you how many shows I've gone to where the most to be won was a single lousy point! The handlers can make the points, and they know where the points are to be had and have the time and inclination to drive long distances to get to them. Working stiffs such as myself - cant always do that.
Next, related to the above, handlers can show when (and to whom!) you can't. How many shows are Mondays and Fridays when working stiffs, such as myself, are in the office? There's a speciality this summer I really wanted to go to but I'm out of vacation time, so my dog doesn't get a chance to pick up a major! Plus, there's always the issue that judge x likes x type of dog - only the closest show judge x will be at is 400 miles away! The handler can get there but you can't!
Next, related to the time issue. There's a real advantage of having the time to devote yourself to the maintenace of a drop coated dog! My show ***** has a "break" line. Her coat is floor length and in beautiful condition, yes, but it also looks like a rat got to the bottom fringe. Why? Because I can't be changing wraps at 9 PM every night when I just got home from work. Worse yet, I can't play puppy police , making sure she isn't rubbing her wraps while I'm at work! A handler's ONLY job is to make sure that coat is in impecible condition. When I go into the ring against a dog shown my a handler, sad to say, the difference is obvious and there's not much I can do about it. Either send my dog to a handler myself, or learn to accept that there will be shows I'm going to loose because of a judge who is a stickler for grooming and conditioning - the handler will almost always win out!
Last but not least, there are the politics that we all love to moan about. Some breeds, like Pugs and Bassets are not pro-handler, others such as Pekes, Shepherds, and yes . .Yorkies are pro-handler. I had an occasion only recently where every open ***** scratched except two, mine and one other. Why? Because the "other" was being exhibited by a very famous handler and the judge was known to be political. OK, I said, I'm here and my dog is ready, what the heck . . .maybe the other dog will limp? lol. Fat chance. What killed me was that the other dog's nose was obviously not solid black as it should have been. But that didn't matter. The judge proceeded to chit chat with the handler while I stood there as the obvious outsider. The only thing she said to me beyond, "down and back" was "don't bend down, it will kill your knees. Hear that crack? See I told you so!" If her chit-chat with my competition hadn't been enough to put me ill at ease . . . guess who won? Now, I wont be showing under this judge again but God, how annoying to spend three hours grooming your dog only to come to a show and find that you have little or no chance of winning just because of the person on the other end of the leash?
I come from horse showing originally, and agility and performance events more recently. Getting used to dog showing has been a real culture shock. However, it is what it is. And since I'm throwing cliche's around here's another one: if you can't beat em, join em. If my dog wasn' t such a prissy girl and I thought she would do well under a particular handler, I would seriously consider handing her off to him/her.
MIGHTYMITE....Yorkies are a whole different story and I hear you!!!! I truly don't know how you, or the handlers do it with such a high maintenece breed. EEEEEK!!! I commend you though, because the yorkies in the ring look incredible to us pug people. I will stick to wash and go with my breeds. All we have to do is a bath, force dry, nail trim, wrinkle clean, whisker clip, and tail shave and off to the ring we go!!!!
I commend you though, because the yorkies in the ring look incredible to us pug people. I will stick to wash and go with my breeds. All we have to do is a bath, force dry, nail trim, wrinkle clean, whisker clip, and tail shave and off to the ring we go!!!!
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Yep. It is CONSTANT work. In fact, I'm not going to my agiltiy class tonight because Penny is up for a 4 point major this weekend under Ed Bivin (cross your fingers for us?) and she has some dandur in her coat right now from having been in oil. I want to bath her again so that I can spend tomorrow night packing for the trip down to PA!
Congrats!! Good boy Whiskey!
And back to german shepherds, they look terrible on show rings! If you have show shepherd and "real" workig shepherd side by side, you wouldn't even know they are at same breed. Back and loin looks awful. And when i watch a video from Westminster, there was one young male who couldn't even run 'cause his back feets were so badly angulated.. sick.. eh?
I think that dog needs to look like a dog. And it have to able to do things which it is meant to do. Shepherds off from showrings and back to obedience and other wise activities! Those dogs are not couch potatoes!!
And back to german shepherds, they look terrible on show rings! If you have show shepherd and "real" workig shepherd side by side, you wouldn't even know they are at same breed. Back and loin looks awful. And when i watch a video from Westminster, there was one young male who couldn't even run 'cause his back feets were so badly angulated.. sick.. eh?
I think that dog needs to look like a dog. And it have to able to do things which it is meant to do. Shepherds off from showrings and back to obedience and other wise activities! Those dogs are not couch potatoes!!
Ahhh . . . don't get me started on what's happened to the German Shepherd! About the only place you'll find old-fashioned German Shepherds anymore is from old-time breeders who haven't caved and don't show much - if any - and from farms where the farmers are just good stock-people and breed their dogs to get good working dogs, not to satisfy the show standards today. Those insanely sloped hocks are . . . insane.
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showpug said:
MIGHTYMITE....Yorkies are a whole different story and I hear you!!!! I truly don't know how you, or the handlers do it with such a high maintenece breed. EEEEEK!!! I commend you though, because the yorkies in the ring look incredible to us pug people. I will stick to wash and go with my breeds. All we have to do is a bath, force dry, nail trim, wrinkle clean, whisker clip, and tail shave and off to the ring we go!!!!
I commend you though, because the yorkies in the ring look incredible to us pug people. I will stick to wash and go with my breeds. All we have to do is a bath, force dry, nail trim, wrinkle clean, whisker clip, and tail shave and off to the ring we go!!!!
Thanks. We're at the point of make or break here. We're hoping and praying and very excited! I'll post on the mighty mite forum with the results, one way or the other, next week.
I see a lot those "healthy" looking shepherds here in Finland 'cause i study at the canine academy, where we are training shepherds for police and army. our dogs come from Germany.. And none of them wouldn't have nothing to do in show rings! But all are good at what they need to be: protection, obedience, tracking, seeking..