Dog Not Motivted by Treats or Toys in Training
- Thread starter ParkerBarker
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Yes more info please. Is your dog not responding to you because he is over stimulated by the other dogs? A little shut down? What treats? Is your dog overwieght at all? Do you free feed? Is your dog hungry when you want to train with food (no matter what you were to offer me.. after a thanksgiving meal I am NOT going to want food)
He's a rescue...approx 1 yo Sheltie Mix, male...no info on him prior to shelter other than he was abandoned in a park...we've tried dry treats, semi-moist treats, organic treats, turkey hot dogs, chicken jerkey sticks...he'll like something one day, spit it out the next day, and then clean it out of his Kong in 5 minutes fast a week later.
PetSmart frustrated me because I just could not get Paker's attention. The teacher seemed to want to pay more attention to the dogs that could already sit, high five, etc...in a Beginner class. He was happy that my dog liked other dogs and wanted to play...whatever, with the $100 I paid, we could've gone to our dogpark/coffee house 20 times for socialization
I know that he is just being an "adolescent" male dog, but I need better options than the trainer could offer...I have no history on him. When he told me that 4 months was an ideal time to start training, I just wanted to scream, "he's a 1 year-old rescue, you idiot." And, the other rescue was fostered before the gal in class got her. He's very advanced.
I feed him 1.5 cups at night only. We don't have a set training time.
Thanks!
PetSmart frustrated me because I just could not get Paker's attention. The teacher seemed to want to pay more attention to the dogs that could already sit, high five, etc...in a Beginner class. He was happy that my dog liked other dogs and wanted to play...whatever, with the $100 I paid, we could've gone to our dogpark/coffee house 20 times for socialization
I know that he is just being an "adolescent" male dog, but I need better options than the trainer could offer...I have no history on him. When he told me that 4 months was an ideal time to start training, I just wanted to scream, "he's a 1 year-old rescue, you idiot." And, the other rescue was fostered before the gal in class got her. He's very advanced.
I feed him 1.5 cups at night only. We don't have a set training time.
Thanks!
I am not sure that my dogs would consider the treats you have tried as high enough value treats. For training, you may need to up the ante. And only give the pupster those treats during training. I use rolled food for a low value treat. I use steak, chicken, cheese for high value treats when I need something for the dog to really focus on and work for. So I am wondering if with your pupster being overstimulated by the other dogs, the treats you were offering just wasn't exciting enough.
Oh, I also usually train my dog after she is tired out from playing. So a good play session before training is good. And make sure she hasn't eaten yet. So if you are feeding your dog at night, I would definitely do my training before feeding, when the pupster is hungry.
Oh, I also usually train my dog after she is tired out from playing. So a good play session before training is good. And make sure she hasn't eaten yet. So if you are feeding your dog at night, I would definitely do my training before feeding, when the pupster is hungry.
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Sounds like simple overstimulation to me. You'll have to do alot of this stuff at home first, then the yard, then the street, and then start to intro other buildings. If hes spitting it out, that means hes over his threshold in one way or another (or the treats suck , but that doesn't sound like your case LOL)If he eats food, hes food motivated, trust me.
how long have you had him? Don't fret about the 4 months old is the best time to train thing...hes still perfectly capable at 1, 2 or 10
I also agree on that might be alot of food...will he eat from your hand?
anyway, I would work on building a super solid bond with him INSIDE at home first and then go at his pace as far as introducing things. Does he know how to do anything yet for you?
how long have you had him? Don't fret about the 4 months old is the best time to train thing...hes still perfectly capable at 1, 2 or 10
I also agree on that might be alot of food...will he eat from your hand?
anyway, I would work on building a super solid bond with him INSIDE at home first and then go at his pace as far as introducing things. Does he know how to do anything yet for you?
That seems like a lot of food. My Shelties got 2/3 cup, once a day, plus a biscuit or two in the morning. One weighed 19 pounds; the other weighed 26. Your dog sounds quite a bit bigger than this, so maybe that's not relevant. But it does sound as if he's being over-stimulated. Maybe a little less food, a little more peace and quiet might help.
We went to one class. As a former swim instructor, I'm not one to usually give up after one class, but I couldn't get any firm ideas/options from the guy. When I taught, I offered lots of alternatives, then suggested private lessons, and when I knew that the environment wasn't conducive for the child, I refunded their money, and told them to try elsewhere. I know I'd have to ask for my money back right then and there, and I'm glad I did with the attitude I got from PetSmart management.
Our homework was go home and practice sit...nothing else. I've had him 2 months. He was rescued as a 1yo...no prior history.
I wanted some professional guidance before I started training at home because he's not a puppy...
Our homework was go home and practice sit...nothing else. I've had him 2 months. He was rescued as a 1yo...no prior history.
I wanted some professional guidance before I started training at home because he's not a puppy...
Suggested serving are always high. Your dog's sides should feel as fleshy as the back of your hand. IF its more soft than the back of your hand your dog is too fat.
(A friend of mine was feeding that food to her -large-Toller, he was an active dog and competing regularly in agility. I think she only fed him 3/4 a cup a day. Your dog MAY need lots. I had a female JRT that needed a cup of food a day to keep weight on, but at no time was she ever fat)
(A friend of mine was feeding that food to her -large-Toller, he was an active dog and competing regularly in agility. I think she only fed him 3/4 a cup a day. Your dog MAY need lots. I had a female JRT that needed a cup of food a day to keep weight on, but at no time was she ever fat)
I usually just start with the pupster learning its name, learning to watch me and to sit. so that is probably fine for the first class. As the classes go along you will work on more training and will incorporate them.
And all of it is making a connection with the dog and gaining its trust. So just the act of working on sit is doing that. Sometimes it is better to make sure that you have the technique down, the dog is being reliable with the command, you are treating appropriately, etc.
We would have the homework to work on sit in many situations . . . so that we were teaching the dog to sit before we go out the door, before we go in the door, before she gets fed, before she gets attention, etc. So there is really a lot you can do with practicing the sit command. And getting the pupster to be really good at sitting in all those situations will come in very handy later. She learned that being calm and sitting was always a good idea.
And all of it is making a connection with the dog and gaining its trust. So just the act of working on sit is doing that. Sometimes it is better to make sure that you have the technique down, the dog is being reliable with the command, you are treating appropriately, etc.
We would have the homework to work on sit in many situations . . . so that we were teaching the dog to sit before we go out the door, before we go in the door, before she gets fed, before she gets attention, etc. So there is really a lot you can do with practicing the sit command. And getting the pupster to be really good at sitting in all those situations will come in very handy later. She learned that being calm and sitting was always a good idea.
Sounds like it wasn't the right trainer for you. This is why I always suggest observing a class before signing up. Just because one person thinks a trainer is good doesn't necessarily mean that the trainer will work for you. Personality clashes with the trainer are the main reason why people quit classes.
So, how's your dog doing with sit now?
I'd suggest finding another trainer. There is a good trainer search on Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources, as well as an article with more tips about how to find the right trainer for you. Talk to the trainer and observe a class before signing up. You might also consider private classes since it sounds like the class environment was too stimulating for your dog.
So, how's your dog doing with sit now?
I'd suggest finding another trainer. There is a good trainer search on Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources, as well as an article with more tips about how to find the right trainer for you. Talk to the trainer and observe a class before signing up. You might also consider private classes since it sounds like the class environment was too stimulating for your dog.
Having him for two months, he may just be settling in. I agree that teaching him to sit nicely at the door (far enough from the swing of the door) is a good approach to practicing the sit as well as teaching good manners and not dashing out the door or jumping on visitors. I've written a whole book on the rescued dog and sitting at the door is the first thing I recommend. Work on the proper sit, then sitting with the door open, then a knock at the door and the person not entering, then the person entering. If your dog will learn all of this, and to sit and be petted without jumping, people will think you are a dog training genius.
Use your dog's breakfast as treats. A hungry dog is a food motivated dog. And remember he may still be a little unsettled.
Use your dog's breakfast as treats. A hungry dog is a food motivated dog. And remember he may still be a little unsettled.
Thanks so much for all of your help. We had a great day yesterday working on our own. I just felt like I had to spend the entire time at PetSmart worrying about the other dogs, who all had socialization issues. I didn't connect with Parker at all in class. As a swim instructor, I would let a parent know if the connection with a kid wasn't happening and work hard to find a Plan B or C. This guy just wouldn't give me other options. Maybe I overreacted, but $100 is a lot for me, and I knew I wouldn't be able to get a refund after the first class. I will definitely observe in the future before I enroll him in a class.
My 18-month-old rescue isn't big on treats or toys as rewards, either. We train alone for about 20 minutes per day, plus we do some socializing activities like going to the pet store or a walk around the neighbourhood. I learned fairly quickly that, for Corky, time with me WAS the reward. If he misbehaves, we stop playing or walking/running. A month later and you'd never know this guy had no manners to begin with. Go slow and take time to learn what your dog wants and needs from you.
Is Parker a Corgi mix? His lil face reminds me of a Corgi.
I had phenominal problems at around 1 year old with Fozzie, trying to get his attention around other dogs/smells/people. He would be sniffing around in the grass while I tried everything! I switched from soft rolled food to a mixture of dried cheese, dried/overcooked hot dogs and bits of cheetos... and I started clicker training. Different dogs need different motivation. He is incredibly attentive when I'm using the clicker because it is a GUARANTEE of a reward, and it lets him know instantaneously when he's doing something right. It also helped me to be more consistent, learn to shape behaviors rather than lure or force them, and train him to watch me. I use the clicker with him to teach any new commands and to practice with a high level of distraction, and it makes all the difference for him. Make sure you use super duper high value treats with the clicker, especially to start off. Fozzie loves cheese and cheetos (I know they aren't healthy! but he eats really healthy otherwise, honest...) but Parker might not. One treat that I've noticed every dog is obsessed with is chicken hearts (and/or gizzards, liver, lungs, etc) sprinkled generously with garlic powder and baked until they're dried out. Dogs go apeshit!
I work at Petsmart, and I don't even recommend the classes... the environment alone, IMHO, is not condusive to beginning classes. A small room, too many dogs, a store full of distractions. Also, the training that the trainers go through is very minimal. You might find a great trainer at Petsmart, but I don't know of any personally. D; I recommend finding your local Obedience club, and/or behaviorists in your area that offer classes. Positive reinforcement only. Attend a class just to watch before you enroll. The vast majority of the training that you do will be at home, at parks, etc, on your own! Educate yourself! There are lots of amazing training books out there... I highly recommend Don't Shoot The Dog by Karen Pryor, Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt and Click To Calm by Emma Parsons.
I had phenominal problems at around 1 year old with Fozzie, trying to get his attention around other dogs/smells/people. He would be sniffing around in the grass while I tried everything! I switched from soft rolled food to a mixture of dried cheese, dried/overcooked hot dogs and bits of cheetos... and I started clicker training. Different dogs need different motivation. He is incredibly attentive when I'm using the clicker because it is a GUARANTEE of a reward, and it lets him know instantaneously when he's doing something right. It also helped me to be more consistent, learn to shape behaviors rather than lure or force them, and train him to watch me. I use the clicker with him to teach any new commands and to practice with a high level of distraction, and it makes all the difference for him. Make sure you use super duper high value treats with the clicker, especially to start off. Fozzie loves cheese and cheetos (I know they aren't healthy! but he eats really healthy otherwise, honest...) but Parker might not. One treat that I've noticed every dog is obsessed with is chicken hearts (and/or gizzards, liver, lungs, etc) sprinkled generously with garlic powder and baked until they're dried out. Dogs go apeshit!
I work at Petsmart, and I don't even recommend the classes... the environment alone, IMHO, is not condusive to beginning classes. A small room, too many dogs, a store full of distractions. Also, the training that the trainers go through is very minimal. You might find a great trainer at Petsmart, but I don't know of any personally. D; I recommend finding your local Obedience club, and/or behaviorists in your area that offer classes. Positive reinforcement only. Attend a class just to watch before you enroll. The vast majority of the training that you do will be at home, at parks, etc, on your own! Educate yourself! There are lots of amazing training books out there... I highly recommend Don't Shoot The Dog by Karen Pryor, Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt and Click To Calm by Emma Parsons.
We think he's a Sheltie/German Shepherd mix. I love his different colorings on each side of his face. One side has white whiskers and the other has black!
Corky-So right. He really does want to be with me.
Ihartgonzo- I'll be buying chicken parts this weekend...
Thanks so much all!
More pics of Parker here: KODAK Gallery
Corky-So right. He really does want to be with me.
Ihartgonzo- I'll be buying chicken parts this weekend...
Thanks so much all!
More pics of Parker here: KODAK Gallery