Dog is starting to show agression.

Dirk

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#1
My 17 month old lab/terrier mix has been a sweet dog but I don't get his recent behavior.

A couple days ago, my dog way lying peacefully on the couch. My son went over to him, bent over and he rubbed his cheek on the side of my dog's head. My dog suddenly growled and nipped the side of my son's head. The nip drew blood. My son has put his face near his head several times in the past so our dog is used to it.(I hope)

Tonight, my dog was lying peacefully on our bed. My wife bent over to kiss him on the head and suddenly he growled and tried to nip my wife on the head.

The only thing I could think of is that the dog was sick lately. he had some kind of infection that caused a fever and trembling. He just finished the antibiotic today. He seemed to get over the infection quickly and he has seemed like his old self the last couple of days.

What should we do?
 

corgipower

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#2
first thing i would do would be to check with the vet. it's possible he's just not feeling himself yet.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#3
The first thing I would do is stop putting my face up in the dog's face.

Get in training class.

Read up on dog behavior, and why dogs do not like being hugged, and often do not like having people put their faces next to theirs.

I would also strongly recommend you read a couple of books by Patricial McConnell. You can probably find them at your local library. They will greatly help you in understanding why your dog might react in this manner.

The Other End Of the Leash
For The Love Of A Dog

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/books-retail.php
 

bubbatd

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#4
I've never had this , so will leave it up to those who know .To me no dogs should nip, snap or bite .
 

Dirk

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#6
He received a lot of TLC while he was sick.

I will have the vet check him out.

Maybe it's my fault for roughhousing with the dog sometimes and letting him play bite my hand.

When I wipe his wet paws after being outside, he would sometimes groan and squeeze(not too hard) my hand with his teeth.

Time for a personal trainer?
 

Lilavati

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#7
All that TLC might have made him think that his position in the pack has improved.

After two bites though, I think you need a personal trainer, and not just advice from here.
 

bubbatd

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#8
That's why I don't like rough housing with a pup . It's hard forr them to understand that play growling is O.K. ....but not otherwise .
 

pafla

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#9
It sounds like dominance.Dogs should not sleep on furniture because it can cause problems with establishing ranks.Now if the dog is obedience trained and obeys basic obedience commands by all family members that shouldnt be problem provided that pack rank is established.But honestly to me allowing dogs to sleep on furniture is really more making ourselves happy than dogs.My dogs are not allowed on furniture and will never be allowed.Some dogs dont like to have they paws touched and can react aggresively.It should be part of training a young puppy to teach it to allow touching all of his body parts by family and strangers,the dog shouldnt react aggressivly to this.Maybe he is trying to climb ranks.But since this is a serious situations all we can do is guess.Finding a behaviorist or dog trainer would be much wiser.
 
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#10
It sounds like dominance.Dogs should not sleep on furniture because it can cause problems with establishing ranks.Now if the dog is obedience trained and obeys basic obedience commands by all family members that shouldnt be problem provided that pack rank is established.But honestly to me allowing dogs to sleep on furniture is really more making ourselves happy than dogs.My dogs are not allowed on furniture and will never be allowed.Some dogs dont like to have they paws touched and can react aggresively.It should be part of training a young puppy to teach it to allow touching all of his body parts by family and strangers,the dog shouldnt react aggressivly to this.Maybe he is trying to climb ranks.But since this is a serious situations all we can do is guess.Finding a behaviorist or dog trainer would be much wiser.

not that i am an expert on this subject,

but, i want to put my 2 cents in.. the statement you made about dogs Not being allowed on furniture or let them sleep on the furniture??? My 2 pups LOVE to sleep on the couches we have ( they are worth well over 2,000 each nice gift huh ;)) and i do not have a problem with Ranks or who is the boss.. they love to be able to strech out and just relax on the couch... they are only just over 3 and 4 months old, and they know that when they should or should not be on the couches..

your statement about letting the pups alllowing to be touched EVERYWHERE with out being upset.. so many people who treat their pups like humans ( like i do ) know when to touch and when not too, and in the OP case, the pup was not feeling well, so of course he did not want to be touched, think of it as you were sick, do YOU like to be touched and such?? Not me..

i assume that he has never done this before and only did it while he was recovering from being sick, so he should return to normal soon.. By the way, i always put my face next to my pups and give them loves,hugs and cuddles and they love it up:rolleyes:.. they LOVe to be touched played with and so forth, they love to be next o us.. but, i also got Thunder ( lab/german sherpard mix at 8 weeks old) and Cinni when she was just over 2 1/2 months old, i do not think it as anything to do with ranks, or pack position, if you show you pup TLC and lots of Love cuddles and such, they will respect you to no end...



but, again that is my 2 cents, take it for what it is worth.
 

corgipower

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#11
if you show you pup TLC and lots of Love cuddles and such, they will respect you to no end...
i wish that it was that simple. there would be so many fewer aggressive dogs in the world.

this dog may have simply not felt good and will be fine behaviorally when his health is 100%.

he also is the right age for dominance and aggression to begin to develop.
 

lizzybeth727

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#12
The first thing I would do is stop putting my face up in the dog's face.

Get in training class.

Read up on dog behavior, and why dogs do not like being hugged, and often do not like having people put their faces next to theirs.

I would also strongly recommend you read a couple of books by Patricial McConnell. You can probably find them at your local library. They will greatly help you in understanding why your dog might react in this manner.
I completely agree, and "The Other End of the Leash" is the first thing I thought of when I read this question! My dog does not like it when people put their heads next to her face (like, hugging her cheek-to-cheek). She tolerates this when I do it, but it's clear (at least to me) that she doesn't like it, although she doesn't growl, much less bite, when I do this (otherwise, of course, I wouldn't do it, or would teach her to like it!). I have a friend who hugged her this way once when I wasn't around, and she came to me and said cheerfully - "Your dog purred at me!" This is an 18 year old girl who definately should know better that dogs don't purr! So now I'm very careful not to let anyone do that to my dog!

I'd also suggeset not letting your dogs on your furniture. I do let my dog on furniture, but only when I invite her. She has to do something to "say please" - sit, down, or anything I ask her - before I let her come up. She is also allowed to sleep on my bed, but not allowed to jump up or off (she's a short dog, it's a high bed, and I don't want to start any bad habits for when she gets old and arthritic). And if we have a bad day, like she hasn't been listening to me, I don't let her sleep in my bed, and she accepts that.
 

ihartgonzo

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#13
so many people who treat their pups like humans ( like i do ) know when to touch and when not too, and in the OP case, the pup was not feeling well, so of course he did not want to be touched, think of it as you were sick, do YOU like to be touched and such?? Not me..
I, for one, want my dogs to allow me to touch them anywhere at any time. They might not be crazy about it... but in the event of an emergency, or an injury, I NEED to be able to touch them.

if you show you pup TLC and lots of Love cuddles and such, they will respect you to no end...
Cuddling has nothing to do with respect. If anything, showing a dog complete affection with zero discipline will create a dog that treats you like an underling.

I totally agree that, as long as the OPs dog is not in pain or ill at all, his reaction is most likely dominance. A dog that growls or snaps at people who are trying to move him from furniture is a dog that feels he owns the furniture.

I think a few sessions with a good behaviorist would be AWESOME for giving you guidance, as to what your family should do to assert your leadership.
 
S

Squishy22

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#14
not that i am an expert on this subject,

but, i want to put my 2 cents in.. the statement you made about dogs Not being allowed on furniture or let them sleep on the furniture??? My 2 pups LOVE to sleep on the couches we have ( they are worth well over 2,000 each nice gift huh ;)) and i do not have a problem with Ranks or who is the boss.. they love to be able to strech out and just relax on the couch... they are only just over 3 and 4 months old, and they know that when they should or should not be on the couches..

your statement about letting the pups alllowing to be touched EVERYWHERE with out being upset.. so many people who treat their pups like humans ( like i do ) know when to touch and when not too, and in the OP case, the pup was not feeling well, so of course he did not want to be touched, think of it as you were sick, do YOU like to be touched and such?? Not me..

i assume that he has never done this before and only did it while he was recovering from being sick, so he should return to normal soon.. By the way, i always put my face next to my pups and give them loves,hugs and cuddles and they love it up:rolleyes:.. they LOVe to be touched played with and so forth, they love to be next o us.. but, i also got Thunder ( lab/german sherpard mix at 8 weeks old) and Cinni when she was just over 2 1/2 months old, i do not think it as anything to do with ranks, or pack position, if you show you pup TLC and lots of Love cuddles and such, they will respect you to no end...



but, again that is my 2 cents, take it for what it is worth.
Sorry but I dont agree with this. Bitting is not ok even if he is very sick. Its kind of like saying its ok for a dog to bite if you touch his food, so dont touch his food. A dog that respects you as alpha wont bite. The dog bit hard enough to draw blood. not good! my dogs would NEVER bite no matter how sick they are, especially if I just gave them a little kiss. I dont think there should be any excuses for a dog that bites. he needs a trainer.

About being on furniture. Big no no if the dog has a dominant temperament, because they can end up being possesive. I believe it DOES have to do with ranks. A dog will try to dominate its owner if given the chance.
 

borzoid

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#15
I do allow my dogs on the furniture however they must respect the pack order. If I come up to the furniture they must move for me. If I am already on the sofa they can't come up unless invited - and they are never ever allowed up on the couch with me if I am eating "anything". My dogs get lots of love and TLC too but I expect them to defer to my alpha status. They are happy and they do respect me.
 

elegy

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#16
That's why I don't like rough housing with a pup . It's hard for them to understand that play growling is O.K. ....but not otherwise .
why is growling not ok? it's communication. the growling is not the problem. what is causing the growling is, and it's sure nice that the dog notifies you of the problem in no uncertain terms so that you can deal with it.

my dogs snarl and snap and growl and carry on when they play, but they don't snarl, snap, or growl at me outside of play. but then again, we don't really have any relationship problems, guarding issues, or intolerance of being touched issues.

for the OP's dog, i would absolutely recommend in-person help.
 

ihartgonzo

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#17
why is growling not ok? it's communication. the growling is not the problem. what is causing the growling is, and it's sure nice that the dog notifies you of the problem in no uncertain terms so that you can deal with it.
That is SO true, Elegy!

I would much, much, much prefer a dog that growls to express his discomfort, than a dog who bites out of no where. Growling and being able to rough house without hurting the person/dog is normal and natural for well socialized dogs.

Gonzo is a SUPER vocal dog. He growls and makes a series of bizarre noises when he's playing with Fozzie, but neither of them have hurt the other, in any way. Both of them play with me and get growly, but neither of them have ever seriously growled at me.
 

adojrts

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#18
That's why I don't like rough housing with a pup . It's hard forr them to understand that play growling is O.K. ....but not otherwise .
Although I don't think it is necessary for people to rough house with their pups. I do think it is vital for them to teach pups boundries and limits while playing if they do rough house. I believe that the dogs do know the difference and are better for it.
My dogs will growl at each other while playing and they will growl at each other if another one has over stepped boundries, but it doesn't lead to aggression. The dogs are allowed up on the sofa and our beds but if asked to move they do, they don't even give a dirty look let alone a growl. They never growl at us for any reason and anyone can take anything away from them, including a treasured new bone.
 

IliamnasQuest

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#19
To the original poster - if you're uncertain as to how to deal with this, getting a behaviorist or a trainer who is well-versed in how to use positive reinforcement and leadership to stop this behavior would be a really good idea. Even getting them in for a single consultation should give you some good ideas (and explanations) on the how's and why's of this behavior regarding your personal dog. I think it's very possible that it's a combination of the dog having just been ill, having been on medications, not wanting to be disturbed and thinking he has the RIGHT to bite in order to put that across. But in reality, his behavior shows a definite lack of bite inhibition and something needs to be done before it escalates and someone gets seriously hurt.

On the other topics - the problem with discussions like this is that people tend to think of dominance as being a structured set of behaviors that all dogs follow and that's just not the way it is. Dominance is not linear - meaning that it doesn't follow a straight line. It veers off here and there and a dog that may be possessive and dominant in one aspect may be completely accepting in another. For example, Trick is a nicely balanced dog who effectively dishes out discipline to puppies in a way they understand, but willingly gives up her ball or toy even though she really likes her toys. She just goes and gets another one as she doesn't feel so possessive that she needs to defend those toys. But she will growl if one of the other dogs were to try to get into her dish while she's eating. So in some areas she shows more dominance than others, and in ALL areas she is willing to submit to me without any argument. This is a nicely balanced, non-linear type of dominance level.

When it comes to setting rules for your particular dog, in an attempt to make his status less than yours or to make him respect you (there are varied beliefs on the concept of rank, but to me there is are definite rank levels with my dogs and myself) you really have to do what's right for YOUR dog. I usually suggest to people that they try a number of rules and then figure out which ones are working for them and which aren't. For some, this can mean "dog stays off of furniture". For others it doesn't seem to matter. For the problem described in the original post, I would definitely say "off the furniture" while this is being worked on because in both instances the dog was on a couch or bed and that may certainly have contributed to the dog's behavior. Other rules - including having the dog work for all privileges (food, water, attention, playtime, access to outdoors) - will not only help the dog understand that he doesn't run the show, it also will make the people in the family be very aware of how they're interacting with the dog, and will make them understand a bit more as to what creates these behaviors in their dog.

http://www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html - Pack hierarchy, attention training, etc. All very good things to work on.

Every dog is different, and what works for one of my dogs may not work for another of my dogs. I've had dogs that couldn't be allowed on the furniture because it led to immediate challenging of other dogs (but if I kept them off the furniture, we didn't have much problem). I've had other dogs that could sleep on the bed or couch 24/7 and never have a problem thinking that they ruled the place. But if I had a dog that snapped at me while laying on the bed or couch, that dog would FLY off that couch and be relegated to the floor for months, maybe forever.

Love does not build respect. Love is important - we should all have a great deal of affection for our animals - but love alone creates many problems for many dogs. Some people's concept of love is to allow their dog to do whatever it wants, but dogs need boundaries and they need to earn the approval of their people in order to have a level of respect - this is a safety matter as much as anything.

I never make excuses for a dog that bites a person. There are reasons, but if a dog bites as was described in the first post, then that dog does NOT have a proper level of respect and a proper concept of bite inhibition. I don't use illness as an excuse. It may be the reason or one of the reasons, however. Even so, dogs that don't feel well should still understand that biting isn't allowed. It would be different if the dog was in a huge amount of pain (just got hit by a car, etc.) and the person did something to make the pain flare (pick the dog up, maybe). That's why I encourage people to muzzle their dogs if they've been injured, even if they think their dog would never bite them. Dogs are sometimes beyond thinking level when there's shock and pain involved.

On the roughhousing and the growling - some dogs are very vocal, and mine make all sorts of grumbles and growls when playing. They're even allowed to growl at each other, lightly. if there's good cause outside of playing. If I hear a growl I separate the two, giving as much emphasis to the non-growling dog as I do the growling one (because often it's a matter of the non-growling one trying to do something they shouldn't, like crowd the other dog). But my dogs aren't allowed to growl at me or at someone that I tell them is okay - like a vet. And biting is never tolerated. From day one my girls are taught that I have the right to touch them in any way I choose, including reaching into their mouths, into their ears, wiping their butts, handling their feet, etc. I have no problems trimming nails. They don't have to like it, they just have to accept it and when they do they're highly rewarded. It's part of their respect for me, that they have to accept these things, and I don't mis-use my "power" by teasing them or doing things just to prove I can. If I need to trim nails, I do it. If I need to open their mouths, I do it. I use a combination of "do it because I said so" and "you'll get lots of great treats when you let me do this". And, of course, I provide a constant strong leadership that helps them accept whatever I want to do.

One last note: I don't think dogs run around pondering how they can climb the ranks, or become dominant over another dog or person. Dogs simply do what works for them. If they find that growling at a person allows them to stay on their nice soft couch, then growling is what they'll do. It's normal and it's not something that I get worked up about - I just set the boundaries of what I will accept, making sure that my dogs are safe for myself and anyone else to be around, and then I'm consistent in enforcing those boundaries. In essence, I do what works for me, even if it's not necessarily what the dog wants.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

Xerxes

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#20
Without observing the situation myself I'll make no assumptions.

The OP said that the dog had been sick. Red flag #1.

The dog was lying down on the couch when the child walked up. Red Flag #2.

The child hugged the dog. Red Flag #3.

The OP played "rough" with the dog and allowed the dog to put teeth to flesh. Red Flag #4.

Sick and injured animals do things differently than those same animals would when they are well. Sick animals shouldn't be surprised with a hug, especially a close hug involving face to face contact. They should be well aware of what the human is doing when it involves contact.

Further, the formerly ill dog was lying on the couch when this contact happened. Was the dog sleeping? If so, definite bad judgement to surprise the dog with a hug.

Hugs...Some dogs will tolerate a hug from anyone, anywhere, anyhow. Some dogs want to say hello first. Some dogs don't like hugs at all. All preferences for contact may change when the dog is ill or recovering from illness.

I don't allow tooth to skin contact during play at all. I don't even encourage "rough" play with dogs. It's too easy for a dog (that moves 3 times faster than a human) to make a move that causes injury, or for that rough play to escalate.

Should the dog have bit? No. Do we know that the bite wasn't a badly timed correction/air snap? No.

If it were my dog in this situation, my first reaction would have been to get the dog vetted as soon as possible. Had this happened to me when I was a kid, my folks reaction would have been "What did you do to bother the dog?" Teach the child how to approach the dog correctly, and to make sure that the dog is awake before physical contact is made.

There's a bunch more I would say if I had seen the event transpire. But since I didn't and I don't know the dog, I can't make any assumptions.
 

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