dog crapping all over the place

bcjake

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#1
We have a 1 year old border collie we got in December from a breeder. Though it was a rough start for everyone, we survived and he hasn't had any accidents since Feb, until recently.

We also picked up an Aussie in March as a rescue and he was the perfect dog til a few weeks ago when he figured out how to get out of the fence. Since then, he would trash the house, trash the yard, pretty much anything he came in contact with. We resorted to putting him on a chain when he was outside. He still figured out how to get off of it and would either go under the fence or just tear the **** thing up. He also learned how to open doors on his own, which opened a whole new realm of issues. The Aussie started crapping all over the place, including on our bed. He was caught in the act (had been outside for awhile too just prior.) He had the runs, which was nice. Before that, we had discussed him with a few behaviourlists and decided it would be best to place him in rescue, as his issues stemmed largely from the typical Aussie stubbornness, he left a lack of leadership and a few other things we decided were beyond our ability (and patience) to work with, plus I'm sure of realm of hidden history the people we got him from didn't care to mention (though they did mention his escape antics, but not to the degree he was doing it.)

Now lets go back to the Border Collie... 3 weeks after we parted ways with the Aussie, our Border Collie is starting some of the same stuff, including a poop marathon across our house last night, resulting in pitching some nice clothes for our girls (he's been doing that some, but not to the degree of last night.) He isn't attempting to get out of the fence (yet), but is starting up the destructive behavior. He started some of it prior to the Aussie, which we know is due to we can't give him 24/7 attention (we both work and have 2 small kids, yeah not the most desirable situation for either breed.) Some of his other behavior includes excessive barking, destroying things, starting to not listen to commands (some typical bored border collie behavior.)

We can make more time to spend with him, but we are honestly wondering if its in the dog's best interest. My wife is already loosing patience with him (as am I to a lesser degree.) We didn't mind parting with the Aussie much because our original intent was to rescue him from an abusive environment and put him in a regular rescue program but decided to keep him when he appeared to be a great dog. The Border Collie is our pet and family member. Any ideas? I need to go and will post more his normal routine and schedule later.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#2
Honestly.. You need a vet visit for the one you have, and the other one needed one too. Random poop problems out of nowhere is often a medical problem, dogs don't have spite.
 

Julie

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#4
It sounds like your dog needs a job, something to strain the brain...and body. You have had a couple very active breeds bred to work....It seems you are not putting enough time into the dog, with your busy lifestyle.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#5
For the dog:

Get a crate and use it.
Get a clean bill of health from the vet.
Get him MORE EXERCISE.
Get him a job to do. Obedience class is a great idea.
 
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#6
Like others have said, you need to see a vet first.

Often, going in the house after being trained, is a sign of a medical problem.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Elissa
 

Doberluv

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#7
Sounds like two stressed out dogs to me. These are not breeds to be left alone all day long. These are not couch potato pets. They're working dogs. They need a whole lot more involvement than most pet homes can offer. Your losing patience, depending on how that is expressed, is probably having additional adverse effects on your BC. This stress can cause all of the signs you've mentioned; the excessive letting go of the bowel/bladder, the destructive chewing, getting into things, escaping (the Aussie)....all of it. Your dog either needs a sheep farm or something to simulate or replace it.

Please understand this: Your dog is not being stubborn. It is NOT a typical behavior of Border Collies or any dog. They are not human beings with human values or morals. They do what works for them. "Starting to not listen to commands." (?) That is a matter of training, not stubborness or spite. Your dog is undertrained. Period.

Dogs do what works. If it works better for him to "not listen," then he'll not listen. They are animals who had to do what worked in order to survive. They're opportunists. They have no inherent need to do some of the things we ask of them. Some of the things we ask have no advantage to the survival of their species. It has nothing to do with stubborness. What are you doing that works for your dog to "listen" to commands? Does he even know what they mean? Commands do not drive behavior. Reinforcement drives behavior. There are many things which have an effect on how well your dog responds to commands, how often and in what instances.

I recommend, if you're going to keep this dog that you not only get into an activity that sufficiently stimulates your dog's mind as well as his body and that you read a few books on dog training. Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson is my favorite...it will help you a lot to understand how dogs learn and think. You will get a lot of practical advice on how to train your dog. You'll have a lot easier time if you read and study this book.
 

Doberluv

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#8
Just wanted to add.....don't get me wrong. You rescued these dogs from an abusive situation and that is very comendable. It was the first and foremost important thing to do. So, I'm not criticizing you for having gotten these dogs. It's just that your BC needs perhaps more involvement than you are able to give. Maybe not, if you really get into some dog sports and some good, sound training. I wish you luck. Here is a thread by one of our BC owners. There are pictures which show what her youngest BC is learning to do. She would be a wealth of information for you too. You might post a thread or pm her if you need some help.

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53578
 

Dizzy

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#9
I'd say more mental stimulation, more exercise, more attention in general.

The old saying "a tired dog is a good dog" isn't far wrong.

The border collie was bred to work ALL day long. They have intelligence and a need for lots of physical work.

They can be kept in the home (obviously!), but it means walking, and training.

How old are your children - you could get them involved if they are old enough?? I am sure they'd love to start agility or something? You could start off together.

I remember we had a border collie when I was younger, and I would spend HOURS with her. Agility combines exercise and mental stimulation - perfect for collies.
 

bcjake

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a couple of things:
1. the border collie wasn't got as a rescue. He was brought home with the intent of getting back into agility, something we haven't been able to do yet.

2. Will schedule a vet visit tomorrow (didn't get a chance today... Monday's are hell at work.) We found over the weekend he has worms, most likely a present from the aussie.

3. He's been through basic obedience.

4. He usually gets at least one good power walk a day, sometimes 2, sometimes none depending on schedule.

5. One job we are working on is helping the girls pick up their toys. Girls are 2 & 4 and have been around herding dogs their entire lives. I've been around Aussies for the last 12 years. This is our first border collie. Problem with the job he has is that he tends to chew on the toys sometimes.
 

RD

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#12
bcjake,

A daily (or even twice daily) walk is not sufficient exercise for a border collie. Basic obedience is not sufficient mental exercise for a border collie. These dogs want to always be learning, always be interacting with you. And if they can't have that, they want to always be moving.

You said you could make more time for the dog - do it, and spend that time to take him somewhere with a lot of space where he can run offlead. Invest in a chuckit, and play ball with him. Use this opportunity to make the ball his reward, and practice obedience as you play fetch. It'll give him the exercise he needs as well as some mental stimulation.

I would strongly suggest that you get into agility with him. Most border collies take it very seriously and get quite the physical and mental workout from it.

Worms are a very valid reason for a lapse in housetraining - definitely get him checked out before you assume this is a training problem.
 

Saje

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#13
I agree 100% with RD and also recommend that you get some interactive toys for when you aren't working with him. Good luck!
 

fillyone

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#14
bcjake,

A daily (or even twice daily) walk is not sufficient exercise for a border collie. Basic obedience is not sufficient mental exercise for a border collie. These dogs want to always be learning, always be interacting with you. And if they can't have that, they want to always be moving.

You said you could make more time for the dog - do it, and spend that time to take him somewhere with a lot of space where he can run offlead. Invest in a chuckit, and play ball with him. Use this opportunity to make the ball his reward, and practice obedience as you play fetch. It'll give him the exercise he needs as well as some mental stimulation.

I would strongly suggest that you get into agility with him. Most border collies take it very seriously and get quite the physical and mental workout from it.

Worms are a very valid reason for a lapse in housetraining - definitely get him checked out before you assume this is a training problem.
All that :D
Just wanted to add that walking is not enough exercise for my 3 year old German Shepherd. We spend much time playing fetch and training.

Though I admit, tonight was "get Dante's pool out" night and so we did none of either. Instead he spashed and dug and rolled and...and...in the wading pool
 

Notes

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#15
I don't think a dog can poop in multiple locations voluntarily. Pee yes, but not poop.
I'm betting the stuff isn't "solid".
How about trying a change of food, and possibly smaller portions?
That worked for us.
 

Jynx

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#16
I agree with everything posted..

I have aussies & GSD's,,many many "border" friends as well as a good friend who is a border breeder.

The aussies & borders are not couch potatoes, (sure you'll find a fluke here and there).. Walking my aussies even 5 times a day, would NOT cut it. They need heavy physical & mental stimulation. Yes, my aussies can be "stubborn", but not in the sense that they become destructive or poop all over my house...However, lack of "something to do" can stress a dog out, and we all know what stress can do to humans *vbg*.

Both breeds can also become destructive/barky and find their "own" things to do when they are not getting enough physical/mental workout.

I know you have alot on your plate, and its commendable you took in the aussie, previous problems or not, aussies as gsd's, can be pretty adaptable dogs to new situations and "learn" quickly.

Worms or not , if your border wasn't exhibiting destructiveness prior to a certain time, there's something missing? maybe you aren't able to exercise/give him as much attention as awhile ago?

It's definately hard working full time jobs, having kids and having high energy/demanding
breeds of dogs especially multiples.

I have the luxury of spending ALOT of time with my dogs, especially my
very demanding aussie, if I didn't she would be definately finding something on her own to do, that would not be pleasant I'm sure.

Good luck, I hope your border is in good health.
Diane
 

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