Dobermans

[pancho]

Late yesterday evening I was given a box of dog books and papers an elderly man had collected through his life raising and breeding dogs. We had been friends for many years and he didn't have any relatives to leave his collection to so he gave them to me.
Included in the box is several letters from the akc. Several old books, the newest was published in 1958. Also there is a copy of the first page of the stud book of the doberman pinscher in German. There is a note attached that translates some of it into English.
According to it the first official doberman in the world was a female named Schnupp. The first 3 names are females, the first male is the 4th name in the stud book. His name is Dobber.
Is there anyone that has studied the history of the doberman who can tell me if this is accurate? It has some type of seal in the lower left corner of the page.

 

[bubbatd]

No clue here . Interesting read for you though .

 

[LargeDogBreedz]

The Doberman was named after its breeder (original maker), Herr Dobermann. He was the man who bred several guard dog class dogs into what we call the Doberman Pinscher today. The ineption of the Doberman is over 200 years old and was bred for minimal grooming and to be the "perfect guard dog"

 

[pancho]

There isn't a date or owner mentioned on the first entry. The second dog in the stud book has a date June 13,1898 along with the color of the dog, the dogs call name, and the owners name. When it gets down to the 6th dog there is a lot more info. It has been several years since I have been to Germany and my german is kind of rusty. I will see if I can translate later.

 

[stormhausdoberdawgs]

From what I've understood (and read) nobody knows the EXACT dog breeds or names of those dogs that were used in the creation of the Doberman because no real records were kept. But I have seen the name Schnupp listed before. Frederick Louis Dobermann was the MAIN creator...there were others that assisted. Otto Goeller took over the bloodlines development when Dobermann died.
Goeller helped create the Doberman we see today.

 

[Renee750il]

That's a fascinating find, Pancho! Can't wait to hear more about what you translate

 

[SizzleDog]

Schnupp was a dog that Dobermann selected from the local dog pound, and was neutered at nine months of age. He acquired a bitch of similar appearance to Schnupp in 1880, which he named Bisart. From Bisart, Dobermann bred a few litters where amny of the puppies were black with red and white markings.

I think there may have been another dog named Schnupp owned by Dobermann though - I've been able to trace Ilsa's pedigree back to a Schnupp v Thueringen, as well as some unregistered dogs named Alarich v. Thueringen, Adele .v Thueringen, Neff... then a dog from even earlier named Prinz v Gronland, who was a dog sired by "Bosco" and out of "Caesi"... both unregistered.

Bosco and Caesi are great great great great great grandparents of Ulriche's Glock v Thueringen who was whelped in 1901, if that tells you anything about when Bosco and Caesi were whelped...

 

[pancho]

The first name in the stud book is Schnupp, there is no owner or breeder named, just that the dog is a female and is black and rust in color. The first breeder named is Goswin Tischler.
The 4th dog is the first male and is the first to have any show wins. The dogs name is Dobber v Bergerhof.
The 5th dog is named Tina, a strange name for a german dog.

Also in the box were several dog book from 1950 and earlier. What is interesting is several letters from AKC stating the changes in several standards as far as color. One stating when the bull terrier standard was changed to include white bull terriers. Another telling of the possible problems that were anticipated when breeding for color was of more inportance than for structure. It also states what AKC had planned to combat that.

 

[Renee750il]

Also in the box were several dog book from 1950 and earlier. What is interesting is several letters from AKC stating the changes in several standards as far as color. One stating when the bull terrier standard was changed to include white bull terriers. Another telling of the possible problems that were anticipated when breeding for color was of more inportance than for structure. It also states what AKC had planned to combat that.

Well, the AKC has sure fallen flat on that one, hasn't it?

It's always fascinating to get a glimpse back in time like this, Pancho . . . I'm enjoying it and I thank you

 

[Doberluv]

Very interesting. What a valuable and fascinating gift this man gave you. You should put it in a safe box. The Doberman is indeed an interesting breed, how several breeds were infused as time went on in their development.

 

[pancho]

Well, the AKC has sure fallen flat on that one, hasn't it?

It's always fascinating to get a glimpse back in time like this, Pancho . . . I'm enjoying it and I thank you

The akc did try to control some of the problems. Even going as far as crossing other breeds into those showing a weakness from breeding only for color, style, or show. Many of the breeds have benefited from a selective crossing done by breeders and approved by the akc.

 

[doberkim]

ah, what i would pay to have my hands on that paper!!!!

 

[Wigglebutts]

Schnupp was as common there as Spot used to be here