Doberman Conformation and Bitework

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Xandra, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    I was looking at some Dobermans and was wondering about those long thin necks vs the thicker necks of the shepherds. It seems even the European working line Dobes have long/thin necks. The thicker-necked shepherds get neck injuries, particularly during long sends. How do Dobermans fare? Are they just are they more suited to close-contact PP vs "offense?" Am I being deluded by the shepherd hair?

    Just curious. :D
     
  2. noodlerubyallie

    noodlerubyallie Sprayin' the spiders

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    I'm confused by the question?
     
  3. Amstaffer

    Amstaffer New Member

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    I think the question is.... Is the dobie ill suited for sport bite work because of a slighter build increasing the possibility of neck injury.

    That sound right?
     
  4. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Yeah :D

    I'm not really concerned about the rest of the body, but their necks do not seem like they would take the impact of hitting a decoy at 15 mph (or whatever speed they're going) very well. Which could be sport work or police work (albeit there are no dramatic leaps). GSDs get neck injuries, and their necks seem to be stockier and thicker. I was wondering a how Doberman with what appears to be a more poorly built neck would take the impact.
     
  5. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    that's easy, it's really hard to find a doberman that comes with any speed so it isnt really an issue :)
     
  6. Amstaffer

    Amstaffer New Member

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    Compared to GSDs, I think it would be a lot harder to find good working dogs. Not a knock on Dobies, but there are just a lot more GSD working line breeders.
     
  7. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    that's true. actually we do have a good dobie prospect that just started training. We're all pleasantly suprised and excited for the puppy and owners. But seriously, it's been over 3 years since any have come thru that even had potential. As a working dog, the dobe has fallen along ways. there are some nice ones, but hard to come by for sure.

    as for the neck being "frail" in work, i wouldn't be to worried about it.
     
  8. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    There are far more tooth injuries than neck injuries.

    A good helper goes a long way to minimize the risk to the neck...unless you have a melonhead whose legs move faster than his brain :p.
     
  9. oc_spirit

    oc_spirit Snow Girl

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    There are a few breeders in the US who are breeding Dobes for work that seem to have a stockier build over all to them. Might be something to look into... I know one of them was trying out a Airdale/Dobie cross with quite a bit of success (bringing working strains of Airdales back to life)
     
  10. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    My guess is virtually all neck injuries in the sport venue are the result of decoy error. Jamming the dog by catching him wrong. Decoys are very important in sport work. When you say catch the dog, that is literally what you are doing, giving the dog a target and having that target be soft- moving away from the dog, not towards it, as it leaps for the bite.

    I think in a law enforcement application, the dog is rarely taking a high flying bite at a bad guy who is facing them like a decoy would do in sport. The bad guy is either running away, and the dog will grab the closest thing to him, or the bad guy is hiding and the dog goes in and grabs the closest thing to him. Law enforcement isn't giving points on a nice arm bite, they just want the dog to bite and hold on. Same goes for a personal protection situation. There is NEVER a reason for a personal protection dog to be sent after someone who is either running away or even running towards you. PP stuff is a lot more close range- bad guy grabs handler, dog bites. Bad guy breaks into house, dog bites. All stuff that is close range biting and the dog will rarely be moving at top speed over a distance.
     
  11. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I had a friend who had an Airedale/Doberman cross (he thought he was buying a pure bred Doberman). Thor was AMAZING. One of my favorite dogs, ever and an able guard dog. He pinned three guys who were trying to steal parts off of Dave's car in a corner until the cops came.
     
  12. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    There's a guy on a working dog forum I belong to who breeds working Airedales. I would NOT want to be on the business end of one of those. Think JRT attitude and fearlessness with the ability to back it up.
     
  13. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

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    like dan said, in the end its going to be a helper issue for the most part. my euro bitch has a nice neck - the thicker neck many people see isn't even in euro working lines, its the show line dogs too. some breeders in the us take the elegance to an extreme and the dogs are just in general lacking bone and substance. but like i said, my euro bitch is light on bone and has a very delicate neck, but she hits pretty hard. as long as people *catch* her safely, its no problem.
     
  14. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Yah, if I wanted a smaller guardian type dog, a working Airedale would likely be at the top of my list.
     
  15. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    Dobermans were developed specificaly for human protection. By Lewis Dobermann of Germany for protection on his tax collection routes. He used Rotties which, although not as heavy a dobe is very sturdy and powerful. Greyhounds were also used for speed. We have a close family friend who is a cop, and when he was working with the K9 unit, doing bitework training he told us the hardest he was ever bit was by a doberman. It was also the doberman that knocked him off his feet, not the GSDs. Our PD has one dobe and three GSDs on the force. So far the dobe is the only one to have won two awards for his work.
     
  16. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    sounds like your department needs buy their GSD's from somebody else then. :)
     
  17. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    :rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:
     
  18. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    All I'm saying, is dobermans are perfectly capable of bite work.
     
  19. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Sounds like your department needs to meet a mali. :p
     
  20. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    They have had 'em in the past.
     

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