Do you ever feel like... (warning: vent)

[Toller_08]

Do you ever feel like you've put so much time, effort and energy into your dogs and it just doesn't pay off? I love my dogs more than pretty much anything else, but lately I've just been so frustrated. I do things with my dogs, I train them constantly, and I'm always trying to make sure they're the best dogs that they can be. And we have fun while we're doing it. But lately I just feel like I'm getting nowhere. I try so hard. And yet there are other people who do absolutely nothing with their dogs and their dogs are almost naturaly impeccabley behaved and well mannered. Sometimes I wonder if it's better just to be naive. I wish I could be the person with the friendly, take anywhere dogs who like people, get along famously with other dogs, and use their manners consistently when out in public with a fraction of the time and effort I put into my dogs. Not that my dogs are bad... but it just seems some people have it so easy, with little effort. I don't know if they just get lucky or what. And then there is me... I try so hard, think I'm doing most things right, and I feel like I'm failing. Dance will be four soon, and I haven't reached any of my main goals with her due to her poor people skills. I love her to death, and I've worked so hard to try and get her comfortable around people, and nothing works. She's better than she used to be, but still not better enough that I can trust that she won't bark or growl at somebody and scare them just because they talked to me or glanced in our general direction. Not better enough that I can do the sports and activities I wanted to do with her when I got her. I know we've made progress, and I'm proud of that progress, but she's not the "take anywhere" dog I planned on having. And that's fine... I know no dog is perfect, but I hoped and I worked hard, and I still work hard, to no avail.

Then there is Ripley. He's great! Better behaved than most male dobermans I've known at his age. But lately he and I just butt heads constantly. He whines all the time lately (for the past couple months), and I can't stop it. I can't ignore it (because it doesn't work), but I never, ever praise him for it. I'm constantly telling him to be quiet (which is a word he knows) or get lost. Then there his blatant lack of disregard for me. I tell him to do something and he just stands there and stares at me, totally blowing me off. Whereas he used to do whatever I asked pretty much at the drop of a hat. It's annoying. Now he seems to be getting slightly dog reactive... and I have no idea why. He's perfectly fine with other dogs in obedience classes (aside from the fact that he whines when we're not busy doing something there), and is not aggressive at all. Doesn't even react when another dog is behaving aggressively. But lately on leash when I take him for walks, his hackles go up instantly, he totally locks in on the other dog and I can't get his focus back on me for anything. Then out of frustration he'll bark. I don't feel that he's aggressive, as he gets along perfectly fine with most other dogs (the exception being one other male dog, which is to be expected with his breed), but I don't know why he's suddenly acting like this on leash. Fine, whatever... I can deal with it, and have before. But I just don't get it. He used to be pretty well as perfect as I could expect him to be for a dog his age. I know I shouldn't dwell on the past, because these things are happening now. But the frustration comes in that he used to be a dream. An absolute dream. I couldn't ever have hoped for better. His attention and focus was great, he learned things in minutes, he was always the star of any class we've ever taken, I could take him anywhere and know he'd be fabulous. Never a problem. And I know a lot of it now is age, and probably a bit of cabin fever since it's been far too cold to do much in the way of exercise, but I don't believe that's all of it.

And then there is Keira. She's good, aside from the fact that my mom is too lenient and lets her get away with some stuff that she shouldn't. Like pulling on a leash, or sometimes squealing for dinner, or racing around the house in excitement for no reason, plus a couple other minor things. I don't really care about her bad behaviours though. I can't do anything about it unless I'm the only one home (in which case she's perfect), and I don't care to. I live with her, I love her, I do my best, but she's not my dog. But my two... I work so hard with them, and have goals for both of them, and I just feel like a horrible owner/trainer sometimes. It doesn't matter how hard I try, I never seem to get the results I want. All I want is a well behaved, healthy, normal dog. Dogs are my life, and I want to take them into public without worrying they might embarrass me. I want to be able to walk them without constantly telling them (Ripley) to keep a loose leash. I want to be able to go for a walk without watching too closely for other people walking their dogs. I want to be able to have guests over without crating Dance because she growls, or crating Ripley because he's too boisterous and pushy with people he knows won't lay down his rules. I just want a well behaved, normal dog that I can be proud of, who shows off all of the training and socialization we put into things. I know the term normal is a broad spectrum... but what I mean by that is a dog who doesn't have any major issues to speak of. Likes/is tolerant of people (or in Ripley's case, gentler with people), likes most dogs, behaves appropriately in public, is obedient always when told.

It just seems lately that I spend more of my time in a negative mood, telling Ripley in particular to stop doing whatever it is he's doing, than I do enjoying them. I hate feeling like this... it's not me. It doesn't help that nobody really helps me. Mom tries, but she's terrible at follow through. Mostly it's just me. Just me, exercising, training, feeding and dealing with one problem or another for three dogs. I know dogs are work, don't get me wrong. I like working with my dogs and training them, I really do. It just all feels like so much sometimes. Sometimes I watch through my window at the dog park across from my house, and wonder why I can't be like those people (not that I want to, logically, but life seems appealingly simpler for those owners sometimes). Most of them are clueless, but their dogs seem to listen well enough and they look like they're having a blast together. I just want to have fun with and enjoy my dogs again like I used to.

Anyhow, there isn't really much point to this thread. I don't really need training advice, as I do know what to do (I think) with the few issues that I do have with them, but I had to get it all out somewhere. This thread has probably made me sound like a terrible dog owner... but writing it all out like that actually did make me feel a bit better, and put things into perspective: My dogs are basically good, give or take a couple things, and I need to start totally enjoying the positive aspects of them like I used to rather than continue dwelling. I hate feeling angry and frustrated, and I know they don't like it either. I know there is a quote out there that says "You don't get the dog you want, you get the dog you need"... and I guess that is kind of true for me.

 

[skKi]

Venting feels good, doesn't it? Everything you've said hits home with me and my three (well, technically they're not all mine...) from the bad with people Pit, pushy Zero and whiney, blatant disregard for everthing Holden.

You're not a bad dog owner, we all have our troubles; but I agree it just isn't fair how it seems the naive, lacksdaisical dog owners end up with the perfect dogs.. If only it were that easy for everyone.

 

[puppydog]

I found that I was frustrated with Travis all the time. He kept on doing things wrong, ignoring recalls BADLY, being a jerk about listening, being pushy etc. Then all of a sudden, I relaxed. He went from idiot to sweetie in three seconds.

I didn't stop training him, I just stopped being angry at him all the time. I dropped my resentment of him and he became a sweetheart. As a result, I managed to call him off chasing a huge flock of birds on Tuesday. He turned mid run and came bouncing back to me, because I am fun now, not miserable Mommy!

 

[mrose_s]

I feel so much the same about Buster atm. I was in tears yesterday, I just feel liek I've let him down. I feel like he's going backwards. He's always had DA and I havn't trusted him with kids just because he hasn't had much exposure but for the first time I am unsure of him with people. I used to be fine to take him to the gate with me and allow people in, he'd bark and then back off when he relised they were cool to come in. Now I always leash him. I think part of it is that I'm so, so hypervigilant sine all the mess with Harry. If I'm home alone I won't let them outside unsupervised incase the council turns up and see's them barking at the gate.
He's like a different dog outside the yard, after having him for 8 years I still have a dog that I can barely get to acknowledge me as soon as we walk out the gate. I can see him trying but he just can't even think. My main goal for him at this point would just to tak him on a walk where we are both relaxed.

 

[Great Dane]

Wow, that's a tough one and I'm not sure if this will come across as coherent or as precise as I'd like, but I'll try anyway.

I think it's up to an individual owner to decide whether or not their time, energy and effort that they decide to put into their dogs is worth it or pays off in the long run. The way I look at it is that if there is even the slightest hint of progress, if anything you've done with your dogs has helped or improved their well-being in any way, then it has definitely been worth it. Simple as that.

I know for myself, the ups and downs, the hiccups and bumps in the road that come with the territory of not only training, but just owning a dog, are definitely part of the reward. "It's not about the destination, it's the journey that counts", and that couldn't ring more true in my opinion. No dog is going to be perfect 100% of the time, if you're having fun and the dogs are having fun, there is no reason for you to beat yourself up and/or think that your hard work isn't paying off. For me, it's important to find that happy medium between training and just letting my dog be a dog. I've never seen a dog that hasn't slipped up, doesn't matter if he looks like the best behaved dog in the world, they all have their moments. As a general rule of thumb, in general I think that we tend to see our own dogs in a more critical, and sometimes negative light when we want to. Not by choice, and sometimes I don't think we even notice, it's just plain old simple human nature. Don't worry about comparing your dogs to others or worrying about progress, if it's meant to happen, it will eventually. May take longer than you may have imagined or thought possible, but when those breakthroughs come you'll feel all the better for it.

Many of the things you describe with Ripley and Keira seem perfectly normal for a dog! Heck, if they weren't misbehaving or acting out I'd question whether or not they were really a dog! I've gone through those moments and I bet that every person who has ever owned a dog has gone through those moments. Whether they want to admit it or not. The attention seeking, disregard towards commands, purposely ignoring, attention and focus wavering, I've been through it all as well. But in the end, they're our companions first and foremost, you give an inch and sometimes they'll take a mile - it's inevitable. They're sometimes too smart for their own darn good, I find. It's just important not to get too frustrated about it, if you feel that it's becoming more of a chore and not fun for either you or the dogs, take a break, brush it off and continue with the training later on. The things like raising hackles, growling, not being so boisterous are just things that have to be worked on, and compared to some of the issues other dogs I've been around have, they seem tame in comparison.

For every owner that seems to have the perfect dog that is well behaved with no effort or training put in, there are an equal number of ill-mannered dogs that you don't see because they're either kept inside all day and never exercised or chained up in back/front yards all day. I see it all the time here in Edmonton, there are 9 or 10 dogs alone in my neighborhood that I've never seen exercised which is truly heartbreaking. On the other end of the spectrum, I see a lot of dogs everyday out in public up here that have zero socialization, zero training, and owners whom are clueless. Dogs that look like they're having a blast when at a dog park, but at the turn of a switch will become incredibly aggressive or disobedient if they're put in an unfamiliar situation outside of the dog park. It's all about perspective, so don't beat yourself up watching the dogs at the park from your house. It's only one environment in which to judge those dogs. Sometimes you have no way of knowing how those dogs behave at home, how they behave around children, kids ect.

I know this is kind of besides the point but just a short while ago, I looked after a rescue Dane for a now former friend. This dog had never been on anything longer than a 5 minute walk. He would literally try to hide under our kitchen chairs when we went to get his leash and collar. He was terrible socially, destructive to the point where he chewed through two of her walls and sheet metal on her furnace, had horrible anxiety fits where he shook so bad he rattled the hard wood on my floors even when his owner was around. She told me a story once, she had been in Kananaskis with this dog on a hike and saw two deer before proceeding to let her dog off the leash to chase the deer. Both ended up having to be euthanized because they tried to jump a barbwire fence and got caught up in it badly. While she told me this she was laughing and couldn't fathom why she had been ticketed by park bylaw. In reality, this person shouldn't have been owning any dog and saw nothing wrong with the way her dog was behaving thinking it was perfectly acceptable and normal behavior. Where is the reward in being naive like that? And this was a dog that used to be able to get by and look somewhat normal when interacting with other dogs and people at the dog park.

I know it's incredibly easy to second guess yourself and dwell on the negatives with your dogs sometimes, we all do to some degree. But like you said, enjoy the positive aspects of them. You most certainly do not sound like a terrible dog owner, in fact, I'd say exactly the opposite. It sounds like you have a great head on your shoulders and the world could definitely use more responsible dog owners like yourself.

/ long winded ramble

 

[Whisper]

Great Dane, kudos for your "long winded ramble." Great post!

 

[MandyPug]

I was going through the same thing with izzie and her issues on the agility field. From our previous bad training she shut down and it's a hell of a journey working on that. We worked and i wasn't seeing anything come out of it, which is discouraging. I was about ready to hang up our agility boots forever. I think she read that on me, and she showed me different at the seminar.

She's been acting way better since the seminar. Way more bonded to me, bang on cue for everything i ask, happy prancing to do what i ask. She's even playing tug.

It takes patience. Sometimes when you take an open mind and think positively and break your big goals into smaller achievements that you can accomplish easier, your dogs will surprise you.

I think you should take your camera and go watch the Calgary Agility trial this weekend and get pictures and just immerse yourself in the world of dog sports and relax. Rejuvenate yourself with the magic of Agility. Watching some masters classes always makes me feel more motivated.

 

[JacksonsMom]

I'm sorry.

Venting is good! Get it all out.

I've never dealt with the problems you are dealing with. Well, maybe a little bit. Jackson's never been a huge people loving dog, he could take 'em or leave 'em really. But luckily for me he will LOVE a person after he's met you about 3-4x with good experiences. But he used to totally back away and shrink down when a stranger would try to pet him (on a leash, at a store, or somewhere in public, etc). I started always carrying treats with me and asking people to give him treats and I just started taking him more and more places. He's always been a pretty go-with-the-flow dog though besides the people thing and is a good "take anywhere" dog and I do feel blessed.

Now, at a little over 2 years old, he will willingly go approach a stranger. Today, for example, I took him to the pet store and the cashier came out and stuck her hand out for him and he gladly went up to her and allowed her to pet him. She asked him to sit, he sat, and she gave him the treat. He's still really slow in his approach to people, and not ubber excited or anything, but he does it. He's a little sweetheart. These little moments, I am SOO proud on the inside. Because he never used to be like this. And, like you were saying, the dog owners who just seem to get dogs that are naturally "perfect" when it comes to things like that, would never understand why I'm so excited. Sometimes I would get mad and wish I would have had a more people loving dog naturally, but I learned that I kind of liked the challenge. And it's nice to see the progress and the end result. Now I appreciate shy dogs a lot more and honestly don't think I'd ever seek out a Golden Retriever or a "I love everybody!" dog because I kind of like that Jackson won't go up to just anyone, and he looks to me for guidance, etc. And it's kind of cute, I like that he has his favorite people. Most of my family members (grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, siblings, etc) he just ADORES and then he has his other favorite people, like my good friend Lauren who has 2 Yorkies, but it took him about 10 times of getting together with them for him to start greeting her with a huge wagging tail and kisses, etc.

This isn't any training tips, just me venting along with you and giving you my experience, lol.

You're not a bad dog owner, we all have our troubles; but I agree it just isn't fair how it seems the naive, lacksdaisical dog owners end up with the perfect dogs.. If only it were that easy for everyone.

^^ This.

 

[Doberluv]

I've devoted a lot of time and energy into the study of the evolution and domestication of dogs, the huge differences between dogs and wolves and even of other animals. How dogs have a convergent evolution with humans (probably) and how they developed to relate to humans the way they do is phenomenal. I know everyone knows this but I don't think everyone realizes just HOW phenomenal they are.

Whenever I get frustrated with Jose`s little irritations, few though they are, (Chulita is the perfect dog with no effort on my part) I remind myself that they ARE animals. And what they can and do do for humans, how much and in what ways they do relate and understand our social ways, Jose`'s little irritating quirks become very insignificant by comparison.

So, this helps me not dwell or get too uptight most of the time, which in turn relaxes me more so I can think what to do. I have a pretty good understanding of behavior and realize what is beyond their cognitive abilities, what is too complex for their brains and when it is probably appropriate or not to anthopomorphize. And what is reasonable to expect.... basically, why they do the things they do.

Jose` has two problem areas that drive me up a wall. Otherwise, these two Chihuahuas are extremely well behaved, versatile and e-e-e-easy street. (Of course, one person's perception of "well behaved" might not line up with another person's. lol.)

But I have had other breeds too, that have been more challenging. And so it's not surprising what you're going through in your mind...perfectly understandable.

I guess my main point is to keep it uppermost in your mind that they are animals. Think of all kinds of other animals, wild or domestic and how they would relate to you, how would they be to train and most of all, what kind of bond you would have with them in comparison to your dogs.

Anyhow, don't know if that made any sense. But it helps me to see the glass as half full.

 

[Taqroy]

I just want to have fun with and enjoy my dogs again like I used to.

When Mu was going through her she-devil/teenage stage I would put her in her crate at night and then Murphy and I would cuddle on the sofa while I complained about her & questioned my sanity. Right now it's all worth it but for awhile there I really really did not like her and questioned our decision in getting her.

Even with her being worth it, she still has issues. She bullies other dogs. She barks at guys with beards/hats/glasses. She takes toys away from Tipper. We're working on all of them but....it definitely feels like an uphill battle sometimes.

((((hugs))))

 

[RD]

Dev, you do realize that the difference between a good dog owner like you and an "average" dog owner on the street is the fact that you are well aware of every issue your dogs have. Most people don't have a clue, and in my experience most of their dogs just don't behave much at all.

As much as I may envy the people who have super low energy, laid back, "perfect" dogs, I often remember that I don't WANT a robot dog. I'd rather have my own dog, with whatever issues she has, because I live with her, I love her and we KNOW each other.

Tell me about not meeting goals. Eve was supposed to be competing in sheepdog trials by this age. She showed great promise as a youngster and then we moved so far away from sheep that my hopes of trialing her were pretty much extinguished. She is now a nice bitch out of a superb breeding that simply exists as my pet and helper. I kinda feel like a failure as an owner sometimes.


(((((hugs))))))) to you. Every dog has issues. It's not just yours.

 

[RD]

And btw, I do think the naive owners have it right in one way - they don't micro-manage. If the dog is throwing such an overwhelming barrage of BS behavior at me, I just remove the dog from my presence rather than unleash a completely UNDERwhelming barrage of "no, stop it, no, hey, quit that, shut up, get out of there" at the dog who just presses the imaginary mute button on my mouth, and ignores everything I say.

I realized, especially with all my foster puppies, that not all dogs are going to do what i want all the time. There are some times when I've found it beneficial to isolate a dog from me, for my sanity as well as the dog's well being. I see nothing wrong with putting a dog out in the yard, or crating them on the opposite side of the house. That little break from dogs is good sometimes. It IS possible to get "dogged out".

 

[ihartgonzo]

I completely agree with RD... I work with dogs who have "average owners" every day, and while they are generally pleasant, those "take anywhere" dogs almost always have issues of their own. There are those Labs who seem bombproof and calm, who will silently walk around a playroom for hours with 20 other dogs with not a GROWL... then who will, seemingly out of nowhere, take a chunk out of another dog and/or the person trying to stop them. I am always more suspicious of the "quiet ones". Most of those dogs are shut down. They have been trained using strictly correction and suppression from day one, and although they seem like such easy dogs, that's just because many of them are a shell of the dog that they could've been. To me, those are the special dogs, who have a soul and who really make you happy and make you appreciate dogs. The special dogs are the goofy, unique dogs who are not afraid to do what they are compelled to do. Personally, I would not want a dog with no spark in their eyes, who just "behave" out of compulsion or fear and who don't ever do anything to make me laugh or cry or just feel emotions, really. Your dogs are obviously not dogs who are shutdown or afraid to function... and trust me, much much better and more well behaved than the "average owners" dog. The average owner's dog is the dog who will thrash violently and hurt themselves and you if you try to touch their nails, or give them a bath, or brush them, or put a slip on them the right way (top of the neck), or put their gentle leader on!

I am sometimes frustrated with my dogs. Gonzo, for instance. I have worked with him for 9 years to get him to trust people. He still doesn't, especially in the home. There is a point that you have to accept the way your dog is, don't get frustrated, stop worrying and make the experiences with people as positive as possible, and appreciate them for all of their awesome qualities. Gonzo doesn't like strangers, but I didn't get him for strangers... I got him for me. And he LOVES me, more than anything, just like Dance loves you.

 

[Lizmo]

Oh goodness yes. Before I got Blaze, I felt like a completely failure to Lizzie sometimes because we had so many problems. I almost considered rehoming her to see if she would do better in a home without me. That's just how frustrated and upset at myself I was. But, she's shown me that this is right where she wants to be and that she loves me to death, trusts me unconditionally like with no one else, even if we do come to blows once in a while.

Blaze? Gosh. We were supposed to be trialing by now in sheepdog trials. We were supposed to be competing in agility by now. We were supposed to be doing obedience trials by now. Has ANY of that happened? No. Life happens. I found out I have a huuuuge passion for sheepdog training - beyond trialing. I found out that I don't really enjoy agility as much as I thought I would. I found out just how hard it is to find an obeience class around here. Life. Happens.

But the journey has taught me so much and so much about my dogs.

 

[HayleyMarie]

First thing Great Post Great Dane, oh and were neighbours

Second thing (((HUGS))) to the OP. I think as a dog owner we all go through that phase with our dogs. I know I did with Teagan when she turned one, my once perfect, quiet, listening puppy turned into a loud, ignoring, non perfect one year old.

It was frustrating and a couple times while going over her training say sit, stay, down, and she was looking at me like "I know what you want me to do, but I refuse to do it" i found myself getting mad and frustrated. I just had to walk away and start again the next day.

I have noticed especially with Teagan since we are so intune that if I get frustrated with her she gets frustrated.

The best thing I have found is take a deep breath, relax and try again

 

[Kayla]

Wow so many good responses, I wanted to quote a few but I like them all so much I can't really pick one or two in particular.

I think it's an envitable part of living with dogs that at some point our thoughts on what we thought our lives would be like with our dogs, and the reality of what living with our dogs is like clashes, and it certainly can be frusterating, but I think on the big picture, our dogs are so lucky to live with people that want to do things with them, and even luckier when their humans can recognize when there dog may not be suited for what things they had in mind, and still loves them anyhow and still finds way to make their life full and rich.

With Duke I really wanted to do agility with him, but then I got to know him better and realized that (especially when he was younger) that because he was soo easily stimulated and quick to go overthreashold at the sight of dogs merely walking by when out and about, agility really wasn't a good suit for him. Duke is now 4 and a half and we've just started private lessons. I really dont know if he'll ever be able to trial but I'm ok with that. To see the expression on excitement and intensity when he's training and playing as a reward during training makes it worthwhile, even if he may not be suited for my original goal.

With Mavrick, the longer I've had him, the more I realize how uncomfortable he is around a lot of people, I've seen the reactivity towards dogs when on leash which I thought was more attributed to living in a kennel before I adopted him, but now that it's winter and the sidewalks are tight I've seen him really shrink down as people pass. I usually stop and get him to sit and reward,reward, reward as people walk by, but yesterday when a lady went to pet him he jumped backwards alert barking. As much as It hurt's my heart a little to see his fearful reaction, I feel lucky that I have the knowledge based on scientific positive reinforcement methods to help him become a more confident dog. I am trying to avoid putting my own definition on what that will look like though, as I suspect he also may not be a bring everywhere type dog, and as much as I envy people with those types of dogs, I'll be happy to see Mavrick become more comfortable, even if it means not all situations will be ok to have him in.

It sounds like your dogs are very lucky to live with you Toller, to have someone who enriches there lives so much by spending so much time stimulating them with training.

 

[Laurelin]

I honestly have a couple of each... We have two really darn bombproof dogs- Bernard and Summer. Beau is pretty bombproof too. It's nice to have them around and such but I'll be honest in that there's something so special about having Mia. Mia is not bombproof by a long shot but she's taught me so much and in some ways my bond with her is strongest because of it. I cannot for an instant imagine trading her for a well behaved dog. Think of all the joy my life would lose because of it.

Mia's another one of those dogs that I sit and think sometimes 'What if she had a different owner?' If she was owned by her uncle and cousin's owner she'd be well on her way to her MACH now. She certainly has the potential and the genetics. I see what they do with their dogs and I get down sometimes. Every time I see a new title I realize that I'm the one holding Mia back. On the other hand though, Mia is a super happy girl with a very fulfilled life. She doesn't care if she isn't already competing. But I think wondering 'what if' is normal.

 

[Renee750il]

Sounds to me like Dance, Ripley and Keira are normal

The Perfect Dog is a mythological creature that was raised by unicorns and poops rose scented rainbows

 

[JennSLK]

Hugs Toller.

Hate to say it but Ripley is now a adult boy. He could just be comming into his own and trying to assert his dominance. As for not likeing other dogs, well it could be a simple he is a male dobe. They are known for not likeing other dogs esp males.

I have met Dance, she is a great dog.

 

[BostonBanker]

Everyone has mostly covered what I wanted to say. We all have those frustrated times; I have cried more tears that I can explain over times when I thought I'd failed Meg, or that I just wasn't the right person to deal with her issues.

If you haven't watched this video, do so. If you have, I advise watching it again. I've seen it more times than I can probably count. When I am so frustrated or upset I want to just give up, it never fails to make me go hug my dog.
YouTube - The Journey

Do you have a trainer you work with at all? Or just super dog - savvy people who know you and your dogs in real life? I can't begin to express the gratitude I have for my friends and my trainer, who I can call on at just about any moment and vent and talk stuff through. I'd never downplay the benefits you can get here, but real life people who you and your dogs interact with on a regular basis are invaluable.