Do hyper dogs theoretically have to have drives/motivation?

[PerformanceDog]

I hear a lot of, what I would call, excuses from typical pet owners of why their dog can't be trained is because their dog is "too hyper"

In my experience, dogs with drive/motivation are MUCH easier to train than dogs without any drives (I really have no idea how one would train a dog that doesn't have anything to motivate it).

I believe that dogs that are "hyper" have to be motivated by something to make them like OMG OMG OMG!!!! Hyper. Otherwise there would be no point to being in that high state. I was thinking that hyperness is maybe just uncontrolled drives and an outlet/release of those drives.

What do you guys think?

 

[Torch]

I don't have much to contribute except that hyperactivity does not always equal drive. Many times it does not.

A dog with real drive will not let anything get in the way of what it wants...like imagine a ball obsessed dog. Their focus and intensity is on another level. Extra energy certainly helps drive, but many hyper dogs are off the wall and cannot focus on one thing.

Many dogs with high energy levels in pet homes don't get properly introduced to things that could help them channel their energy into a productive drive, and thus become hyperactive.

 

[Oko]

In short, if something is alive, You can motivate it.

 

[Shai]

You're assuming the people in question want to train their dog in the first place. Most pet people I know mostly just want a dog who is kind of...intrinsically good and entertaining and rather calm overall, and see an energetic, potentially motivated dog as a challenge rather than an opportunity for awesome.

I met someone the other day whose dog, when cued "sit", snaps instantly into this tight sit and freezes there, eagerly prepared to explode into a release to something else. The owner sighed and said, "Why can't you just...sit?" and would have genuinely preferred a slow shuffle into a sit followed by disinterest in moving again any time soon.

Which is fine, but it doesn't take much youthful exuberance to earn the title "hyper" in those situations.

And hyperness is really just lots of energy and a lack of impulse control. Doesn't really say how easily the dog is motivated or focused, to me.

 

[PerformanceDog]

I don't have much to contribute except that hyperactivity does not always equal drive. Many times it does not.

A dog with real drive will not let anything get in the way of what it wants...like imagine a ball obsessed dog. Their focus and intensity is on another level. Extra energy certainly helps drive, but many hyper dogs are off the wall and cannot focus on one thing.

I do not think of drive as being "real" or "fake", but rather as a spectrum, so there are higher drive dogs (such as one with its complete focus on a ball) and lower drive dogs (such as those that are not interested in anything).

I agree when you say drivey dogs have a focus/intensity. And that hyper dogs are out of control/off the wall.

So my thoughts are:
Drivey-Dog with focused and controlled energy.
Hyperness- Dog with unfocused, uncontrolled energy.

What I am wondering is, where is that energy in the hyperness coming from? I would assume the dog has to have SOMETHING that is motivating it to be in that high state of mind/hyperness. And if something is motivating the dog, wouldnt that just be sort of an uncontrolled/unfocused drive?

In short, if something is alive, You can motivate it.

Just out of curiousity, and slightly off topic, but how would you train a dog that is not interested in anything? (not toy, food (even cheese, meat, etc), handler driven, etc.) I have seen dogs like this in some of the classes I have been in, and they typically don't get very far because of the lack of motivation for anything. But cookies for the owners for having the patience they have!

Many dogs with high energy levels in pet homes don't get properly introduced to things that could help them channel their energy into a productive drive, and thus become hyperactive.

You're assuming the people in question want to train their dog in the first place. Most pet people I know mostly just want a dog who is kind of...intrinsically good and entertaining and rather calm overall, and see an energetic, potentially motivated dog as a challenge rather than an opportunity for awesome.

I met someone the other day whose dog, when cued "sit", snaps instantly into this tight sit and freezes there, eagerly prepared to explode into a release to something else. The owner sighed and said, "Why can't you just...sit?" and would have genuinely preferred a slow shuffle into a sit followed by disinterest in moving again any time soon.

:yikes: I would be like OMG! Yes! haha.

But yes, I do realize most pet homes do not want to go through the time and energy to train their dog various things, or even care if their dog knows anything other than being able to just "be a dog".

And hyperness is really just lots of energy and a lack of impulse control. Doesn't really say how easily the dog is motivated or focused, to me.

Yeah, I definitely agree the first thing I would be training a hyper dog would be impulse control type games.
But, it brings me back to this..

So my thoughts are:
Drivey-Dog with focused and controlled energy.
Hyperness- Dog with unfocused, uncontrolled energy.

What I am wondering is, where is that energy in the hyperness coming from? I would assume the dog has to have SOMETHING that is motivating it to be in that high state of mind/hyperness. And if something is motivating the dog, wouldnt that just be sort of an uncontrolled/unfocused drive?

Would you agree or no? Why?

(Just curious about what the thoughts are, I am not sure if I am right in my thinking, just something I was thinking about and wanted others to explain what they think!) Thanks!

 

[sassafras]

I think "drive" is one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Having said that, a hyper dog is not necessarily a high drive dog as far as I'm concerned. EVERY dog has some drive and motivation, but to me a truly driven dog is going to have some some level of inherent focus on a particular task/activity (which can be different for every dog) through their energy level, distractions, etc.

I think that focus can be honed with age, experience, and training, but to me a "hyper" dog is so out of control that there is not, almost by definition, any focus there.

 

[PerformanceDog]

I think "drive" is one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Having said that, a hyper dog is not necessarily a high drive dog as far as I'm concerned. EVERY dog has some drive and motivation, but to me a truly driven dog is going to have some some level of inherent focus on a particular task/activity (which can be different for every dog) through their energy level, distractions, etc.

I think that focus can be honed with age, experience, and training, but to me a "hyper" dog is so out of control that there is not, almost by definition, any focus there.

So where do you think the energy from a hyper dog comes from?

I definitely agree that the hyper dog needs to be taught impulse control/focus to be able to see their drive.
But wouldn't something have to make the hyper dog have all this energy in the first place? (being able to play fetch, or with toys, or see other dogs, or the owner just came home from work, etc)?

As far as drive goes, I am simply talking about enough drive where the dog would be willing to work for that thing, whatever it may be. And that hyper dogs may not be able to focus enough to do this, but if taught some impulse control then they would still have that something that they would, and now could, work for?

 

[release the hounds]

maybe they have drives and no nerves? maybe they have drive with short nerves? maybe they have high drive and no thresholds. Maybe they no drive just tons of energy and no idea what to do with it? Maybe they have great drive, stable nerves, great thresholds and an owner that drives them nuckin futs? So many dogs, so many words, so many combinations.

 

[sassafras]

Honestly I don't think that energy and drive have that much to do with each other. I mean, if a dog had NO drive whatsoever it would be dead, but some very driven dogs are pretty chill when not working.

I guess I don't understand what "where does the energy come from" means, really. It comes from the same place all energy comes from?

 

[pinkspore]

So where do you think the energy from a hyper dog comes from?

Some dogs are just really high-energy all by themselves. I've met dogs who were extremely exercise-dependent and practically vibrated when not allowed to run hard a few times a day. Have you ever been sitting down all day and felt like you just needed to get up and do something, anything, just to move? I imagine a lot of hyper dogs just feel stir-crazy all the time for lack of good hard exercise.

Some dogs also have a lot of nervous energy, and are easily overstimulated. All the mindless running in the world won't teach a dog how to contain himself and focus.

 

[PerformanceDog]

Okay thanks for all the replies! I guess I was just thinking about it wrong, but it makes sense what you all are saying! Thanks!

 

[sassafras]

I think "drive" is just a word that has become difficult, because ten different people can use it ten different ways and a lot of people use it as an excuse for an out of control dog.

 

[amberdyan]

I think "drive" is just a word that has become difficult, because ten different people can use it ten different ways and a lot of people use it as an excuse for an out of control dog.

AGREED. I was body slammed by a really annoying dog at Petco the other day. It's handler was on the phone and just said "sorry. He just has a lot of drive." When in reality the dog just looked frantic and nervous and had zero impulse control.

 

[PerformanceDog]

I think "drive" is just a word that has become difficult, because ten different people can use it ten different ways and a lot of people use it as an excuse for an out of control dog.

Oh yes, I totally agree that it has a different definition for many people. I definitely was not using it for the dog that is out of control, rather after you worked on impulse control and such and the dog was now in control!

 

[Shai]

I think "drive" is just a word that has become difficult, because ten different people can use it ten different ways and a lot of people use it as an excuse for an out of control dog.

^So true.

Some dogs just seem like a little kid on a sugar rush all the time. Running around screaming for no reason and to no real purpose other than because they cannot seem to stop

 

[SaraB]

I'm dealing with this right now with Skill. He is very high energy but low food drive and medium toy drive. He loves toys and food, but he's never had to work for either and there for has a hard time realizing the connection between work and the reward. I am a firm believer that drive can be built and molded with dogs like this (knock on wood). He is exactly as you described, hyperactive but has a hard time focusing. If he doesn't get what he wants quickly, he moves onto something else. A high drive dog in my opinion would push harder to get what they want, not quit easily and be able to work through pressure.

 

[Doberluv]

I think high energy, very busy dogs are fun to train. Matisse, one of my Poodles is like this, although he's mellowed out as he's come out of puppy hood. But he's still got that high spirit thing going on. I think these busy, crazy dogs need something to do and will bend over backwards to work with you. Lots of things motivate them. They just love life and aren't going to hold back their exuberance. I think the opportunity is there to teach them things. They tend to do everything with great gusto. My Doberman was like that. And one of my Poodles is like that. The other Poodle has his methods too, although he's much more chill.

This article is one I've always loved and explains what I feel so well. Take a look.

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1721

 

[milos_mommy]

AGREED. I was body slammed by a really annoying dog at Petco the other day. It's handler was on the phone and just said "sorry. He just has a lot of drive." When in reality the dog just looked frantic and nervous and had zero impulse control.

Even though "drive" can mean different things, this seems like it makes zero sense. To me, drive means "the drive to do something". Aka "the dog has a lot of drive to get the food reward" "the dog has a lot of drive for the tug toy" "the dog has a lot of drive to catch the lure" or whatever.

IMO hyper just means the dog has a lot of energy....and doesn't necessarily correlate to drive, although hyper/energetic dogs seem to be more likely to be "drivey".

A "hyper" dog is going to have tons of energy that they're putting into doing whatever they can. They're running, jumping, going from toy to toy to treat to other animal to owner, etc.

A dog with "drive" might have the same energy, but they're putting into Get The Tug or digging to the rats or herding the sheep or performing tricks for treats above all else. They aren't going to be distracted by a strange dog barking or someone dropping food because they are being "driven" by the task at hand.

 

[Romy]

^So true.

Some dogs just seem like a little kid on a sugar rush all the time. Running around screaming for no reason and to no real purpose other than because they cannot seem to stop

This is Bella. She's lovely and very sweet, but has zero drive to do anything in particular and waaay too much energy to just sit around and chill.

 

[Doberluv]

Even though "drive" can mean different things, this seems like it makes zero sense. To me, drive means "the drive to do something". Aka "the dog has a lot of drive to get the food reward" "the dog has a lot of drive for the tug toy" "the dog has a lot of drive to catch the lure" or whatever.

IMO hyper just means the dog has a lot of energy....and doesn't necessarily correlate to drive, although hyper/energetic dogs seem to be more likely to be "drivey".

A "hyper" dog is going to have tons of energy that they're putting into doing whatever they can. They're running, jumping, going from toy to toy to treat to other animal to owner, etc.

A dog with "drive" might have the same energy, but they're putting into Get The Tug or digging to the rats or herding the sheep or performing tricks for treats above all else. They aren't going to be distracted by a strange dog barking or someone dropping food because they are being "driven" by the task at hand.

Well, the thing is a dog that has tons of energy and they put that into whatever they can, running, jumping, going from toy to toy can very easily, with a little guidance, direction, training from the owner be that dog that you describe in the second paragraph that I put in block. In essence, this is what that article explains. One dog may not have the same drives as another. One's motor patterns will vary from another depending on how that breed or type was selected so they'll be expressed differently and sometimes we may not recognize what we're seeing.

For instance, Matisse, when he was younger was scattered...all over the place with his energy, enthusiasm and exuberance. Now, as he's matured a little bit and had some direction, he puts that same intensity, push, determination to keep on going or doing into what he's been shown or channeled into. (at least to a certain degree) He's a retriever. He can get distracted. I don't know that drive is necessarily the same as not being distracted. I do think drive is what a dog has when he has some kind of task or tendency to do some task or tasks in strong measure and he points himself in that direction. And the competence he acquires at a task may need to be helped along with some training and guidance.