Designer Breeds

[Athebeau]

Athebeau the only differences (but big ones) are that those people who made dobermans and newfies did it 1) with a purpose other than making money Quote by Fran27

But Fran, Purebred dogs are still mixed breeds...there really aren't many "true" natural breeds they all ended up in a mixing pot the true ancestors are races of dogs (mongrels). My question is, what is healthier, outcrossing and bringing in new blood...or inbreeding and creating genetic defects and problems. It's very common to have genetic disease in most purebred dogs. My male is a champion in 3 countries (States, Canada & Bermuda) he has Elbow Dysplasia and cannot hike or swim because of it. That to me is not healthy.

My big concern about purebred dogs is the fact that until about 100 years ago they were never restricted to the in-breeding programs we currently have in place. The kennel clubs and breeders actually force unhealthy breeding practices of inbreeding on these poor dogs. For myself I think healthy breeding should include out crossing breeds every once in awhile. Perhaps bring the Tibetan Mastiff into the Newf breeding etc.

I really do get sick to my stomach when I think of the genetic diseases created by purebred breeding. There are new diseases popping up every day. To say these same diseases have been around for hundreds of years before purebred breeding is deceitful. Also, to say that people a hundred years ago who created these breeds knew more about genetics is really wild...yet they created these breeds (by crossbreeding) and probably back in that time they would have continued crossbreeding...so, in that sense they did have more common sense than we have. So, basically now we have a few crossbred dogs, inbred for a few generations to create "type" "standard" and now it's almost sacreligious to think about bringing new blood into these small gene pools.

There are still purebred breeders breeding only for the big bucks as well. We also have purebred dogs over flowing the rescue...currently we have 70+ Springer Spaniels (show dogs) and Old English Sheepdogs (show dogs), Alaskan Malamute's and recently a breeder was busted by the SPCA and their champion Shepherds were confiscated. Where there is money to be made it brings out the worst of the worst.

I do agree with you that to have these cutesy new dogs for monetary purpose is wrong. I also know that some purebred breeders do the same thing. I can't think of anything more unhealthy than breeding English Bulldogs...I find that particular breeding to far outweigh the wrong of Doodle mixes. To purposely breed a dog that is unhealthy, built wrong, has a respiratory system which makes it hard for them to breathe...there is no dog breeding worse than these. But, people think it's fine just because a kennel club says it's OK...we are being brainwashed.

This is just my opinion This is what makes the world go round is differing opinions. I like to give my opinions, then it's up to the individual to dismiss them...or think about them. Most times I just have people yell at me for my ideas...but, isn't that what a forum is for...discussing.

Just to add, Alaskan Huskies are constantly crossbred to create good working dogs. Border Collies do not follow the standards set by kennel clubs...actually they really put up a fight when the AKC wanted to recognize their breed. They fought it, but the AKC won. You can slowly see a decline in this breed - the ones that are not bred by working folk that is. The show breeds are suffering.

 

[MOODYGIRL]

They're mutts, I refuse to call them Labradoodles or anything like that.

Yea I saw them they have a lot of energy right?

 

[Fran27]

Oh I agree with you Athebeau, there are way too many problems with purebred dogs nowadays. My problem however is people who claim they are making new breeds (especially non shedding or hypoallergenic ones, which is not always true), when it's just really to make more money. I mean, purebred dogs are worth more because of the work it takes too make good quality dogs... to make mutts, you just have to take two dogs and mate them, so there is no justification whatsoever to the $1200 they sometimes charge...Plus I have yet to see a breeders of those breeds who actually check for genetic problems in the parents.

And mostly, there's no reason whatsoever to make more mutts and charge even $500 for them when there are mutts that are born everyday and end up in shelters.

So it's not the mutts that bother me, but the unethical breeding really.

 

[Brattina88]

I would just like to say that I am dog sitting my teachers Cocker Poodle mix right now. At the begining of the year we got into it about Cockapoos and other designer breeds... she made a good point, but that doesn't make me want to go out and breed mixes. He doesn't have typical Cocker problems, his temperment is unique - like that of a poodle and a cocker
But go to the shelter and you'll find a dog with an equally unique temperment and that is healthy!
But go to the shelter and you find a ton of purebred dogs, too!

 

[bubbatd]

A Golden and Poodle mix could be great....BUT, if they are from a hyper Golden line and a neurotic poodle line ....look out!!!

 

[mojozen]

i call my mutt a "mongolian poochie dog." it began in jest, but it has stuck. thank god he is neutered - he is a "rare breed" indeed.


(we guess that he's actually a pit bull dachshund x - but since i adopted him as an adult - i will never know what he truely is)

 

[Beauceron]

I wouldn't say it's common to have health problems in purebreds, depends on your breeder, my Rottweiler has an Am/Can Champion, and went OFA excellent, she was from wonderful lines that didn't just concentrate on looks, she also could work an excellent C-course in herding! Just a good all around dog!

Also lets say we cross a Lab (prone to hip dysplacia) with a Poodle (prone to PRA) whose to say the pup won't end up WITH both health problems?

 

[Nobody's Fool]

My sister had a female Jack Russell (slightly neurotic) and a male Chihuahua (extremely neurotic). She bred them and had pups..... called them Jackahua's ("Jack-a-wow's)....... Cute puppies, but not too bright. There were housebreaking issues, the inability to judge distance or height (one kept running into the step to the porch for many months. Couldn't learn to jump up onto it. Also ran into walls for quite a while....), and extreme fear of strange objects/people. VERY good with kids and other dogs, though.....
I think designer dogs are a really big mistake, especially when the "breeder" does not consider the intelligence, mental and physical health, or "personality"/attitude of the dogs he/she is breeding. I personaly love the mixed breeds, but breeding mixes just to make a buck is SO wrong!! Just as breeding pure breds for a specific physical trait (such as massive headed pitties or humongous GSDs....) is wrong. I say let's go back to the old days, when a dog was bred to do a task well, be able to learn and obey commands, and to be healthy (they wanted their dogs to live long, healthy lives back then......)

Just my humble opinion. Sorry for the long post.....

Sara

 

[Sheba]

My dog's name would be really silly if we put the breed together! (I do not support the 'breeds' as real breeds. A Pittbull is a real BREED. A cockapoo is not.)

Labermanretretriever Shepherd

 

[Labraguese]

I have a "labraguese" but I think it's stupid that they called him that. He's just a mutt to me.
I love him all the same that way.

 

[Madaline]

Mutts

I have a maltipoo, I have never had a cross before we always had purebreed poodles before, so this is a new experience for us, but she is wonderful and very smart, the vet told my she will not be so high strung as my poodle and she is so layed back its wonderful, she is more maltese I think than poodle has the smarts of a poodle but looks like a maltese., I was boxing day shopping today and looking for a calendar and they even have dog calendars now catering to the cross breed, saw a few, yorkie poo, labradoodle to name a couple.

 

[Fran27]

Well yes, everything that can bring some money Sad!

We are not saying that they are bad dogs though, just that breeding them is wrong, especially when they cost as much or more as purebred dogs. There are lots of mutt puppies in shelters and they cost much less, plus they don't encourage people to add to the dog surpopulation just to make money.

But someone raised a good point too, which is that badly bred they can have the same genetic problems as purebred dogs and can have lots of temperament issues as well. And I just don't believe that most breeders care.

 

[bubbatd]

As a child I was brought up with an Irish Setter and then we got our 1st Golden , " Point". I thought had we bred them together we could have " Pointsetters "

 

[Mach1girl]

Pitbull X Schitzu(sp??) = "Bull-schitz!!!"

I know it is not funny, but I just had to say it!!!

 

[john doe iii]

hhmmm...

I'm curious if you guys feel the same way about humans who are "not pure" of one race? Please educate me the difference .... if I remember correctly, us humans started this way at one point or another.

 

[anna]

actualy, it,s very funny! You get points for clever

 

[Fran27]

I'm curious if you guys feel the same way about humans who are "not pure" of one race? Please educate me the difference .... if I remember correctly, us humans started this way at one point or another.

Huh? I don't see how you can compare lol.

 

[Nobody's Fool]

I'm curious if you guys feel the same way about humans who are "not pure" of one race? Please educate me the difference .... if I remember correctly, us humans started this way at one point or another.

I don't know how you can compare the two either. I personally don't have a problem with people of "mixed races"...... I don't have a problem with mixed breed dogs, either. It's when people start forcing the breeding of certain mixes without regard to health and mental stability, giving them cutsie names and trying to sell these mixes to make a profit. Imagine if "someone" tried to force two separate races of humans to "breed" and by so doing tried to create a new, perhaps superior, "race." Is that right??
(I, by the way, am a Native American/Irish/German/Jew....... What would the "Designer Breeders" call me???)

Sara

 

[Athebeau]

I agree that it is sad that people are breeding designer dogs and making profits off them...but, until people stop buying them they will continue. It's the public that makes this possible for these breeders to continue.

I wouldn't say it's common to have health problems in purebreds, depends on your breeder, my Rottweiler has an Am/Can Champion, and went OFA excellent, she was from wonderful lines that didn't just concentrate on looks, she also could work an excellent C-course in herding! Just a good all around dog!

Also lets say we cross a Lab (prone to hip dysplacia) with a Poodle (prone to PRA) whose to say the pup won't end up WITH both health problems?

If both dogs of each breed were certified and came from great lines your chances of having healthy pup's would be greater than breeding 2 healthy purebreds from the same breed. Purebred dogs have small gene pools, some smaller than others. Some breeds were created with a larger gene pool than others as well.
If you took a Lab with known genetic problems such as HD and a Poodle with a genetic problem and bred them...well that's just common sense. You are going to have problems.

The laws of genetics makes it so our animals will not inbred...in the wild young males leave and find new territory. If inbreeding does occur most times the young will not survive to pass on their mutant genes. For example white/albino deer are often shunned by the mother, they may survive but, it's difficult for them.

There are breeders doing some very unethical breeding such as AI..some dogs will not breed naturally any more. Once this starts happening it should be a clue to the breeder that outcrossing should be done and those particuar dogs no longer bred.

 

[chicksneggs]

Actually..........

If both dogs of each breed were certified and came from great lines your chances of having healthy pup's would be greater than breeding 2 healthy purebreds from the same breed. Purebred dogs have small gene pools, some smaller than others. Some breeds were created with a larger gene pool than others as well.
If you took a Lab with known genetic problems such as HD and a Poodle with a genetic problem and bred them...well that's just common sense. You are going to have problems..

[BR]

Actually, if you breed a hd dog to a non hd dog you will cut the instances of hd, but it will not go away as some will develope hd. You decrease the instances not increase by outcrossing. Now if the poodle had hd well like you said its common sense not to breed aflicted dogs or dogs from known aflicted lines.

The laws of genetics makes it so our animals will not inbred...in the wild young males leave and find new territory. If inbreeding does occur most times the young will not survive to pass on their mutant genes. For example white/albino deer are often shunned by the mother, they may survive but, it's difficult for them..

[BR]

Actually, in the wild you do get a lot of inbreeding as with horses for instance. the stallion will run off the young studs but the young daughters will be bred in about a year and a half or two years to the father stallion if he is still in command of the herd and so on for as long as the old stallion is in charge. Sometimes he will end up inbreeding for several generations.
Animals do not recognize family members like humans do. A female is a female and a male is a male.[BR]

Now as for white deer, the mother will take care of it no matter what color it is...sometimes even if it is another species...calf, goat, lamb, ect....
The reason white deer do not make it in the wild like colored deer is during their life they are standing out due to there color and preditors can see them better than they can the colored ones....except in winter.[BR]In Canada there is a group of white moose who is interbreeding with each other producing white offspring....in centrial park there is a strain of white squirrles as well as a strain of black ones. These pockets of whites and blacks are due to inbreeding in family clusters or areas due to lack of enviroment.

There are breeders doing some very unethical breeding such as AI..some dogs will not breed naturally any more. Once this starts happening it should be a clue to the breeder that outcrossing should be done and those particuar dogs no longer bred.

[BR]
AI is a tool to spare the bitch from possible injury and prevent injury to the stud. Also AI is used to breed a female from say one country or area to another very far away without the hassle of travel. AI has nothing to do with the dogs not being able to breed on its own. But I have seen some high bred dogs that are like you said not willing to breed but like you stated those should not be bred in the first place, they usually don't make good breeders or mothers anyway and why breed a dog with a problem?. I feel nature is trying to tell someone the dog should not be bred.