Definitely need some help...and some sanity

[NewPuppySara]

OK, Ill try and be as detailed about this as I can. I am sure this is normal behavior, I just want to make sure my reactions to it are right.

Well, Sara, (now coming on 6 weeks) gets crated when a. we are not home, b. we cannot keep an eye on her the entire time she is out..(wondering puppy mouth..no good to shoes, furniture, etc.) We take her outside for about 5-6 hours in total during the day, and then night falls and the evil puppy comes out. She sleeps all day when she is in her crate. Then, she can make it through the night until about 4 in the morning. (this is keeping her up from 6pm till around 11 at night) Well, the thing is, once we get up at 4 am to let her out she will not relax again until around 9 am./ We take her out, she goes potty(she lets us know when she needs to go), then we come back in and she has to go again an hour later. She screams and howls in the kennel, then I take her out thinking she has to go potty. Well, the thing is I dont know if she is just going asgain outside to get out of her crate. I know that sounds awful, but heres the thing- when i take her out she goes quite a few times....urinate and defecating. I just dont get how she can go 6 hours without going, then all of the sudden she has to go every hour on the hour. I almost feel like she is howling to go out on purpose. Like, she goes because I bring her out. Because, she has proven she can hold it.

She is alone from 1230pm to 6 pm at night and we have not had any problems. She just howls to come out of the crate. I have toys in there with her, i filled a baby kong with pb for her, she absolutely hates that crate, and I have no problem putting her in there and leaving her, its just that the howling really gets under my skin. She upsets herself to the point of coughing. It sounds like we are beating her up or something lol. Its awful. So I am sure this is all normal, and I just dont even expect to get any sleep with her just yet, but my ultimate question is this:

Am I rewarding her by taking her outside when she is howling? She does go to the bathroom when I bring her out. I ignore it for as long as I can stand it, then I have to bring her out cause I feel like she is trying to tell me shes gotta go. So it kind of feels catch 22. I dont want to make her sit in there if she really has to go, but I also dont want to get her in the habit of going to the bathroom just to get out of her crate. its like she literally forces herself to get out just one drop everytime I bring her out and it makes me feel bad, like **** she really did have to go.

I just dont understand how she can go from holding it for 6 hours here and there to not holding it for more than an hour between goings from 4am to 9am.

I probably sound like an awful puppy parent, but just keep in mind I am grumpy and sleep deprived right now So I may be talking a bit out of stress and duress....

If it is normal, I can deal with it, if it is not how do I curb it. Thanks a bunch!

 

[keller]

I'm not a dog expert, but the stuff in this post is what I did with my puppy (who was seven weeks old when I got him). Just a side point: I've now learned that even a seven week old puppy is really too young to go too a new home. The decisions that I made with my dog were made as a result of talking to lots of dog experts, owners and reading books and websites. So, don't just take my advice of course. Look at lots of sources, and pay attention to your particular puppy (I'm sure you're all ready doing all this ) What kind of dog is Sara?

OK, Ill try and be as detailed about this as I can. I am sure this is normal behavior, I just want to make sure my reactions to it are right.

Well, Sara, (now coming on 6 weeks) gets crated when a. we are not home, b. we cannot keep an eye on her the entire time she is out..(wondering puppy mouth..no good to shoes, furniture, etc.) We take her outside for about 5-6 hours in total during the day, and then night falls and the evil puppy comes out. She sleeps all day when she is in her crate. Then, she can make it through the night until about 4 in the morning. (this is keeping her up from 6pm till around 11 at night) Well, the thing is, once we get up at 4 am to let her out she will not relax again until around 9 am./ We take her out, she goes potty(she lets us know when she needs to go),

She's probably not relaxing because she's not tired. It sounds like she's sleeping a lot during the day (which is normal for such a young puppy), so she's operating on a different sleep schedule than thep people in the household.

then we come back in and she has to go again an hour later. She screams and howls in the kennel, then I take her out thinking she has to go potty. Well, the thing is I dont know if she is just going asgain outside to get out of her crate. I know that sounds awful, but heres the thing- when i take her out she goes quite a few times....urinate and defecating. I just dont get how she can go 6 hours without going, then all of the sudden she has to go every hour on the hour. I almost feel like she is howling to go out on purpose. Like, she goes because I bring her out. Because, she has proven she can hold it.

It's normal for a puppy to need to go every hour. She does better at other times because she's sleeping, and her digestive system slows down when she's not awake. She probably is also howling because she's ready to get out of the crate and hang out with you. When you take her out while she's howling, you teach her that being noisy = getting let out. The thing is, you can't just leave her there to howl if she needs a bathroom break, so you should get her on a schedule, and take her outside before she starts making noise. Since you know that she should go out about every forty-five minutes to an hour, you can start planning to do this.

She is alone from 1230pm to 6 pm at night and we have not had any problems. She just howls to come out of the crate. I have toys in there with her, i filled a baby kong with pb for her, she absolutely hates that crate, and I have no problem putting her in there and leaving her, its just that the howling really gets under my skin. She upsets herself to the point of coughing. It sounds like we are beating her up or something lol. Its awful. So I am sure this is all normal, and I just dont even expect to get any sleep with her just yet, but my ultimate question is this:

I've read that puppies shouldn't be in their crate longer than 1 hour per month of age. Some sources, also say the same rule, plus one hour. So your dog shouldn't be in more than an hour or two without a break.

I probably sound like an awful puppy parent, but just keep in mind I am grumpy and sleep deprived right now So I may be talking a bit out of stress and duress....

If it is normal, I can deal with it, if it is not how do I curb it. Thanks a bunch!

Just hang in there, it will get better eventually. Is it possible for the puppy to go to a friend's house during the day, or for someone to check in on her while you're out? I think both of you would be happier if she could get a little exercise during the day instead of her building it all up, and wanting to play at 4 am. It would also be good for her to get more housetraining lessons during the day.

 

[bubbatd]

Was he only about 5 weeks old when you got him ??? This could be the problem ... he still should be with his Mom and litter.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

Yep that pup is very young, he should still be with his mum untill at least 8 weeks

 

[Doggish.Obsession]

Was he only about 5 weeks old when you got him ??? This could be the problem ... he still should be with his Mom and litter.

Thats flipping crazy! I heard you had to bring it home AT LEAST 6 weeks- 8 weeks or something like that.

BUT THATS STILL FLIPPING CRAZY!!!! FIVE WEEKS!!!!

 

[bubbatd]

Who's flipping crazy ? You don't HAVE to bring a pup home at 6 to 8 wks. There's a theory that 8 weeks is the fear age and if anything dramatic happens during that week , it could mark them forever. I personally had mine go home the closest weekend between 8 and 9 weeks. Golden pups are ready at this age. Not all breeds are.

 

[blue]

My boy was taken from his litter before 5 weeks, I got him at 6 weeks. I was going to crate him, but preferred letting him sleep in the room with me with out a crate.

 

[yoko]

i think the age might be the problem. you can't expect a puppy that young to hold it as long as you want it too. also it's in the crate a lot longer than it should be. i don't really have experience with puppies that young so that's just my two cents though :/

 

[Fran27]

Never let a dog out of the crate when he/she's howling. It just teaches them that if they howl they will get out of it. Wait until she's calm and then let her out.. all puppies cry for one or two weeks at first in the crate then get used to it.

And I agree also that she should go out every hour to go potty. They can't hold at this age, and the more she pees outside the sooner she will understand that she's supposed to pee there (with lots of praise of course).

I suggest reading a lot about what happens to puppies between 5 and 8 weeks of age... It's a crucial time to socialize them, or they can end up scared of everything all their life. That's why puppies usually stay with their mother until 8 weeks, because breeders know what to do (usually), plus they learn bite inhibition etc... all which YOU are going to have to do now.

 

[Mordy]

To the original poster:

Please, please buy Ian Dunbar's book "Before and After getting your puppy". At 6 weeks old, the puppy is still young enough to correct mistakes you have made.

A 6 week old puppy should definitely not have to go for 6 hours without a chance to potty during the day. At night it's easier, but during the day that's a much too long period for a puppy to be confined without an area where it is ok to potty if you can't provide more frequent breaks. As someone else has mentioned already, the rule of thumb for bladder control in puppies is one hour per month of age, plus one - so right you shouldn't really expect more than 2 1/2 hours at a time. If you make her "hold it" too long from so early on in life, she may develop a number of urinary tract issues later on and possibly become incontinent. It's very stressful on the kidneys as well.

As for the wanting to be active and play at night, make use of that period to get in some training sessions along with fun games. Mental exercise makes puppies tired too.

 

[Barb04]

We got our last pup at 7 weeks old. When he drank water, it came out with a minute. It took several weeks before the bladder started to hold it in better. We were constantly taking him outside immediately after drinking, eating, sleeping, etc. so he could pee/poop. Until we saw that he could hold it longer, this is what we did. Your pup is so young.

 

[aelizilly]

I agree with most everything already said. Great advice Keller.

I got Bailey at 6 weeks, and the first couple of months were VERY Difficult for me. Hang in there, it actually does get better. Take the advice of the information you receive and good luck! Once your pup is old enough, definitely get into puppy/obedience classes, as it will need them.

 

[NewPuppySara]

Thats flipping crazy! I heard you had to bring it home AT LEAST 6 weeks- 8 weeks or something like that.

BUT THATS STILL FLIPPING CRAZY!!!! FIVE WEEKS!!!!

Whats even flipping crazier is that she more than likely would not have survived if I had not taken her. I got her from a barn, where she was sleeping in hay, in 20 degree weather at night.Now, even if she could keep warm next to mama, She was so flea infested that you could see signs of anemia starting, and her belly was just awful full of worms, and she had a cold. So I have a feeling that age is just a number here, cause I would rather deal with all of the problems I am going to deal with than to have watched those pu0ps there and not taken at least one in. Mentality wise, if I had the choice I would have brought her home at a better age, but in reality you can wean them that early. I saw pups younger than her come into the Vets office time and time again that were weaned.I live in a very rural area, so its a common thing in this area (overbreeding and people not spaying or neutering)

We have been trying to wear her out during the day, when shes tired, she goes out. Shes been doing MUCH better, and shes not howling in her crate at all after I put her back in there, so I am guessing she is not resenting it as much since she is running around more. I friend of mine has a litter mate, and weve been taking her out to their house, as it has 5 acres of land. So they run and romp with us and each other and wear out well. Then we come home and she crashes. She wakes us up around 630 am and shes ready to go. She 6 weeks now. I sit out with her to let her play for about an hour in the morning and that works well. She comes back in and is tired out and crashes.

Just so you guys know, we dont leave her in the crate all of the time. When we are home after work she is out and about most of the night unless we run out for something. (dont want you to think i just throw her in and forget about her ) But I will say where I got my crate training ideals from- the vet I worked for told me that you should crate the dog for 19 out of the 24 hours a day. (Taking it out to do its thing every so often as needed). I think crate training comes down to opinion. In my eyes, I could never leave a dog in a crate for 19 hours. I dont see for future proper muscle development if you do something like that.

Mordy, I will look into getting the book, thank you!

And lucky me, I actually have some friends that are trainers, (I worked for Petsmart for a while) and they are both awesome awesome awesome trainers, so I am going to see who they recommend. We cant take her to training classes until all of her boosters are started though. (I dont like to take her to any places where dogs are at because she is not vax. yet, and I do not want to see my dog get parvo.)

So, this week going into week 7, its time for that trip to the vet.

As for training, I def. work with her. I had roomates who had really behaviorally challeneged dogs, and I never want to deal with that again! Ever! They never did anything with the dogs to stimulate their minds, or train them right from wrong. My puppy being 6 weeks old is smarter than their dogs combined IQ just because of the amount of attn. She already sorta knows sit. She wont hold it for very long, but she does know what I am asking of her.

I have a 2 year old horse too, so alot of things really cross over training wise between the two...just a difference of oh..800 pounds or so lol.....

I really appreciate all of the good advice here. I will definitely heed all of it!

 

[shepluvr]

seems like you are on the right track...If you need any advice there are some knowledgable people here who can give you advice. Thank you for getting a rescue!! That pup sounded like it would not have survived if you had not taken it in. As long as you are willing to work hard with her I see good things happening. Good luck with her and remember we are here for you if you need it.

 

[keller]

Good for you and your friend for helping these puppies! I'm glad that you're going to get the book, and learn about puppy development. Leaving a dog with its siblings and mother for a set time isn't just about weaning, but about letting it learn certain lessons. You're most likely in for an up hill battle when it comes to things like bite inhibition, but these things can be overcome with lots of time and patience. My puppy just didn't get it until he was about three months old, but he's making progress. You sound very dedicated, and I'm sure Sara will continue to make great strides. Good luck.

 

[NewPuppySara]

Thank you guys very very much! Yeah, the biting thing is something I have started working on as well. She loves grabbing ahold of my pants leg and fiercely trying to rip it away from me, but I take my leg away and tell her "NO! OWWWW! That hurts!" in a "you hurt me" tone of voice, it seems to make her "feel bad" and she stops. I try to divert her to play with puppy things. Shes a stubbonr little pup, but I am glad she is assertive and not submissive, she is great with the kids in this neighborhood, they all come around and I encourage them to play with her. My neighbors have a dog that is scared to deathe of kids and they do nothing about it, even letting him out to run the area loose and not pay attn to him. Its very nervewracking, and hell chase kids playfully and when the kids tuirn around to pet him he bares his teeth at them. The owners are non chalant about it and I am at my wits end with that.

I do not want little Sara to end up like that, for sure! So she gets lots of kid time I even "pay" a boy a few doors down to play with ehr after school and wear her out for a bit. I sit out there with them, and it focus's his mind on playing with the dog instead of some of the not so well behaved neighborhood children around here. And it gives him a job! (He gets like 2 bucks a week to do it, his mom and I thought it would be a good idea to occupy his time and it really helps us get Sara nice and tired out while we are getting home and situated from work!)

 

[NewPuppySara]

Testing my signature! Didnt see a spot for it anywhere else (can someone point to it for me lol