Dalmations?

[MericoX]

A) I'm not sure if you know this or not.... but dog's aren't people and you can't really compare the two...
B) If they've been doing this since the 70's you'd think the dogs would look more dalmation now than pointer/dal mixes.

And instead of trying to add in mixes to make the Dalmation more healthy, why don't they use that money to find the gene that causes the uric acid and stop effing up yet ANOTHER breed.

 

[Groch]

A) I'm not sure if you know this or not.... but dog's aren't people and you can't really compare the two...
B) If they've been doing this since the 70's you'd think the dogs would look more dalmation now than pointer/dal mixes.

And instead of trying to add in mixes to make the Dalmation more healthy, why don't they use that money to find the gene that causes the uric acid and stop effing up yet ANOTHER breed.

There are only 3 genes different in the regular and Lula dogs. They know the gene. The problem is that the traditional breeders do not want to accept it, and want to FORCE another breed designation.

 

[Gypsydals]

Groch, I do like the idea in theroy. I do not believe the statics that are given though. Like I said before if they where right, then 2 breeders plus me would have had atleast one dal that has had the Urate stones. So far we have had NONE. I am not for or against it in the long run, what I am against is jumping the gun. If stones are as big as a problem as that article sugests, then I believe the breed would have died out a while back. Do you think this is something that has just recently popped up? Yes there are dals out there that do form stones, I am not denying that fact. Its not just the not having the optimal spotting pattern, I'm against. Its other things too.

As to how can I recommend the breed as a family pet? Easy they are a great dog. Are they for every family nope, but not because of the health problems.

P.s. Groch, I'm not a breeder.

 

[Groch]

Groch, I do like the idea in theroy. I do not believe the statics that are given though.
P.s. Groch, I'm not a breeder.

That's fair. I have no personal knowledge of this. I think what got my dander up was as I mentioned in an earlier post, my brother investigating King Charles Spaniels. They seem to be marvelous dogs with horrendous health risks of many types.

If KCS were commercial livestock instead of historic dog breeds this would have been solved long ago, and we would have perfect KCSpaniels with no health problems.

My suspicion is that the registering bodies have a financial interest in keeping things just as they are. (Kind of like the Health Insurance companies do in Politics). Its too bad.

 

[Gypsydals]

ANY good dal breeder will be honest with you and tell you what problems are in the breed. They explain all about urate stones what you can do to help prevent them. Heck even the DCA has a page on health problems that may occur in the breed, they also go into detail about each one. Its never been a hush hush secret. Its not a finacial interest keeping things the way they are. Every DCA member votes on things like this, there is no governing body voting.
I am not all that sure bringing in a breed that has its on set of problems, some are found in dals and others not so much is the right way to go about it. I am personally wary of the parent club saying they are a very healthy breed (there are a few exceptions). It makes me think there is something to hide.

 

[Romy]

That's fair. I have no personal knowledge of this. I think what got my dander up was as I mentioned in an earlier post, my brother investigating King Charles Spaniels. They seem to be marvelous dogs with horrendous health risks of many types.

If KCS were commercial livestock instead of historic dog breeds this would have been solved long ago, and we would have perfect KCSpaniels with no health problems.

My suspicion is that the registering bodies have a financial interest in keeping things just as they are. (Kind of like the Health Insurance companies do in Politics). Its too bad.

For what it's worth, any investment a breeder has in their dogs is emotional, financial, and timewise. Most serious show breeders with champion dogs lose thousands of dollars.

Example, I know one collie breeder who spent over $100,000 in one year, campaigning her stud. It was a successful campaign, but consider she will maybe, get $2000 for a stud fee at most, and that is a stretch, and she has only let him sire three litters, one was hers and she sold the puppies for $1,000 each, she is making back less than one fifth of what she spent. That doesn't even include the fact that she kept half the litter for herself, and the feeding and showing of her other dogs, the cost of the whelping, shots, worming, high quality puppy chow, weekly grooming for all her dogs ($60 per dog for 10 dogs = a lot per year) etc.

People who campaign their dogs, aren't in it for money, it's about love for the breed, with a dose of ego and prestige. Most will admit that part, . It's pretty much just an expensive hobby, like some people love to scuba dive every weekend or go skiing in the Adirondacks. For those that love the breed, it's the temperament as much as it is the looks. A dalmation has a different temperament, energy level, etc. than a pointer and I can see the worry that something intrinsic to dals could be lost if one wasn't careful.

 

[Groch]

Its not a finacial interest keeping things the way they are. Every DCA member votes on things like this, there is no governing body voting.

I respectfully dissagree. Every DCA member owns a Dalmation that cost a good bit of money because it had 2 registered Dalmation parents.

If the science of on the LULA site is correct, it is impossible for the pure Dalmation gene line to solve this problem without breeding into this as yet unaccepted (by the AKC) line, or another line that has non-dalmation genes. That immediately cuts the value of the pure breeding stock in half. And Romy, I accept your point that the value is as much emotional and time as it is financial. You spend time and effort finding the perfect Dalmation sire, and suddenly they tell you you have to have a **** Pointer in there!

Commercial livestock breeders (cows and sheep and such) do not have this problem. They are concerned about the end result, not perpetuating a bloodline.

Gypsydals, I do not know how serious the problem actually is. Perhaps the article was overblown. I do know that in the 60's dalmations were an extremely popular breed as pets...they are much less so now, and health could be a reason.

Certainly in the case of King Charles Spaniels, where there is a TINY breed base, inbreeding has caused incredible damage, and the supposed guardians of the breed (the clubs and the AKC) have done little about it.

 

[Gypsydals]

Groch, back in the 60's they had the same Urate problems they do today. The gene was present then just like it is now.

 

[Groch]

Groch, back in the 60's they had the same Urate problems they do today. The gene was present then just like it is now.

Yea, but the movie had just come out, I was 8 and tried to paint spots on my cocker spaniel.

 

[Gypsydals]

And yep just like with any movie where there is a pretty dog they increased just like they did in the 90's(I think it was). Its something every breed of dog owner/breeders fear. BUT the BYB love.

 

[Pops2]

as i said before there are allegations that some legit dal breeders did this under the table in the 70's for PRA and no one knows because they bred with the dual purposes of fixing the PRA AND getting back to standard. the dal breeders were inspired to do it becaues the irish setter breeders had done it w/ english setters. read all about it in the AKC gazette in the early 80s.

 

[Gypsydals]

Pops the problem with that is there is a very telltale way to see if a DalmatiAn has been mixed with something else. It messes with their spotting. So it would be pretty hard to hide that fact. But this thread isn't about PRA, its about adding the LUA gene.