Confused with crate and potty training

[Westie Girl]

I have been reading the posts on this website and numerous books on puppies and dogs. I have a 15 week old female Westie. She was doing so well with her potty training and then she got sick(coccidia and had a two night stay at the vet). All her training basically went out the window.

She is starting to get back on schedule but can not make it through the night without soiling her crate. She had pretty much mastered this until she got sick.

I am now overwhelmed by the whole process. I read where a puppy should have about 8-10 trips outside a day. We go atleast 6 times before noon! I am getting abosolutely nothing done. I feel like I spend every waking minute with the dog. I feel guilty when I leave her alone in the kitchen (gated of course) to try to do laundry or clean.

I guess I am unsure about what my expectations should be. I don't want her to get bored and become destructive. However, spending every minute with her is making me crazy.

How much playtime should she have? We play every couple of hours and of course we are constantly outdoors. She goes for a walk in the evening and we play ball again. However, she gets totally out of control around 9:30 pm. She is running and barking and pulling at my pant legs - which is also driving me crazy! My hands are covered in bandages from her craziness.

I want to enroll her in puppy kindergarten as soon as she is over the coccidia.

I would love to hear any advice. Be brutally honest because I need some real help.

 

[Fran27]

First, just keep doing what you did before she got sick. Most dogs don't get housetrained before 6 months anyway, usually longer. Get up during the night to let her out too. How big is the crate? If it's too big, lots of dogs don't mind peeing on one corner and sleeping in another. If the crate is small and she still does in it, I would just forget about it for now.

6 trips out before noon is great. I used to let my pups out every 30 minutes. Just praise a lot when she pees or poops outside... eventually, once she can control her bladder, she should get it.

When she gets out of control (my dogs do that around that time also), just ignore her totally. Once she figures out that she won't get attention nipping at you, she will stop.

 

[Westie Girl]

I got the crate that has the divider so I don't think that it is too large. Until this last week or so, she slept throughthe night so we had no soiling incidents. I will need to take her out at night. It is usually #2 so I think it may be part of the illness still. However, I don't want her to think that it is alright to go in the crate at night.

How much time should I spend with her durign the day? My not being able to get things done is causing problems on the home front. I want to strike a balance between taking care of the puppy and taking care of my husband.

In addition, it is only 5 weeks until I have to return to teaching. She will be in the crate for a good part of the day. I don't want to start behaviors that she will continue to expect once I am back at school.

Any ideas?

 

[Herschel]

As far as her taking up all of your time, I totally understand that. From what I've read, puppies go through a very clingy phase right around 14-16 weeks so that might add to your trouble right now.

If you gate her in to the kitchen does she whine? If so, maybe give her a little bit of carpet to make her feel more comfortable, but don't give in to her begging! Just carry on with your day and take her out once every hour.

Keep a log book! Jot down every time she goes to the bathroom, (#1? #2? Time.), anything that she eats, and every walk she takes. This will help you to figure out her schedule and you will see that her intervals will start to get longer and longer.

As far as the agressive behavior in the evening--it sounds like she isn't getting enough excercise. Do you walk her in the morning? Does she eat at lunch time--if so, does she get a short walk then? During your evening walk, does she go #1 and #2? After your evening walk, does she take a nap? She might need another quick walk or training session after that.

 

[Westie Girl]

She eats around 6:00pm and then out the door at 6:15 pm. We come inside and then my husband and I eat our dinner adn he plays with her. We go for our evening walk at 8:30. We walk and play until 9:00pm then we are inside.

She usually lays down a minute from all her adventure time. At 9:45 we start our bedtime ritual. A little more play time and then one more time out before bed. We playa quick game of chase the ball and that is what gets her super crazy. She growls and barks. Then my husband is at his wits end and I take her ot once more at 10:05 and then to the crate for the night.

When I was still in school ( teaching) the schedule was a bit more condensed in the morning. We play some and go out twice but no real time for walks. She stays in the kitchen and plays with her toys while my husband and I get ready for work.

I see people in our neighborhood and I know that they are no smarter than I am but they have three dogs. I can't control this one puppy. I know that they work so they are not at home training the dogs all day.

The brutal truth is that this dog will have to learn that she can not control our schedule every minute of the day. My husband and I both work so she will be alone for atleast 7 hours. Was I wrong to even want a dog with a schedule like this. My friends work and they have pets and they don't have dog walkers or doggie daycare. I can't seem to make any sense of this. I know that it is rapidl becoming more about me than the puppy...help!

 

[Herschel]

You're right--you're starting to make this more about you than about the puppy. Are you sure you're ready for the responsibility?

Have you tried walking her before she eats, taking her out right after she eats, and then walking her at 8:30? That way she would use some energy and build an appetite before she eats dinner, then she would get to rest before burning more energy during the evening walk.

Have you tried extending your evening walk from 30 minutes to 45 minutes or an hour? Our small breed puppy commonly gets 45 minute walks so I would imagine that your Westie could handle more exercise. If you make the exercise strenuous enough then you might be able to skip playing with the ball in the evening.

If the ball gets her too excited, use a different toy or find a way to control her craziness. I can play this game with my puppy where I do very specific actions that make him bark, growl, and nip at my feet. As soon as I stand up and say, "Hi Herschel!" he runs to me with his tail wagging and stops playing.

Please make sure you wake up early enough to take her for a walk in the morning! It will make both her and your lives much, much better. Most destructive behavior in dogs is the result of a lack of exercise. There are two of you--you should be able to find a way to tag team and take her for a walk, feed her, and then take her out in the morning without delaying yourselves too much.

Type out a schedule for your entire day. It will make things more structured for you and your husband as well as for your dog.

 

[Westie Girl]

I guess I was getting conflicting advice about walking the puppy. She is 15 weeks old and a lot of people in different posts were saying not to walk this young of a puppy very long because of developing joints and bones. I thought this odd but am new to puppy ownership. We live in Texas so it is very hot and humid even in the evenings. I did not want to stress her too much at the beginning. Before she got sick, we would walk for atleast 30 minutes. I guess her conditoning is down and we will have to work our way back to that length.

I will type out a schedule. No offense but you guys always say you will help but lack in the follow through department. I have to be at work for 7:00 and the husband for 7:30. We will try the tag team effort. I will also try walking before the meal and afterwards.

Thanks for the advice. Keep sending any insights that you have. I can use all the help I can get.

 

[Herschel]

If you have to be at work by 7, then maybe you could:
-Wake up at 5:30 or 6, take the dog out
-Come inside and put food down
-Continue with your morning routine

Your husband can:
-Start getting ready at 6 or so
-Walk her after she finishes her food (probably by 6:30a.m.?)
-Finish getting ready and leave by 7:30

 

[silverpawz]

Hi there, if she cannot hold it during the night anymore then try feeding her earlier in the day for the last meal, and take up her water around 7pm. (if you take her for a long walk after that time, then certainly offer her water afterwards anyway, just be sure to take up the bowl again when she's done)

You don't have to spend every waking moment with a puppy. In fact they should learn how to be alone comfortably so they don't develop Separation Anxiety when you leave. There's nothing wrong with putting her in her crate for a couple hours during the day even if you are home. If you need a break from the puppy, crate her! She'll live.

Getting her used to being confined during the day now is also a good idea if your going back to work later, since you can slowly work up to crating her for longer periods.

 

[Westie Girl]

Thank you silvrpawz. I think that I am a resonably bright person but this puppy training is whipping my tail. I can't seem to get things together. I know that my husband senses it because he asks occassionally if I am sorry that we got her. I usually reply "no, but I need some help." He travels so much that it is not realistic for him to always help. I guess I am just a little overwhelmed. Everytime I think we are on a schedule something comes up and it is like returning to square one.

I know this stage will pass and I will wonder what all the fuss is about.

I do have a question about how many time she should poop a day. She is still on Albon due to contracting coccidia. At this point in the day she has already pooped 5 times. It is soft serve consistancy and she is eating Hill's prescription i/d mixed with solid gold puppy food. She is fed 3 times a day. I will be taking her back in on the 10th to be re-evaluated.

 

[Westie Girl]

Thanks Herschel. We will try this schedule. However, it looks like the hubby will only be home about two days a week (Sat. and Sun) for awhile. Hopefully he will be home more regular as school approaches.

Is a walk better than playing? Just curious.

 

[silverpawz]

I'm sure you're doing just fine. It's a big change to have a new puppy and it's normal to wonder if you're doing things right. Take a deep breath and go get yourself some chocolate.

Five times before evening does seem excessive for a puppy. How much are you feeding her? (in cups)
If her poop is mushy then it's possible she's still not feeling well and that can also be the cause of her current housebreaking problems. Your vet will be able to tell you for sure.

 

[Westie Girl]

I have been feeding her 2 TBS of i/d and 1/3 cup kibble at each of the three feedings. Am I over feeding her? She seems to eat almost all of it every time. She is not losing weight but maybe she is not getting enough of the nutrients. Is it normal for her to poop about 15 minutes after she eats. That seems a little quick...heck, what do I know...this is very hard!

 

[silverpawz]

Okay, so you're feeding her about 1 cup per day. That's fine. She probably doesn't need the two tablespoons of canned. Try cutting back to just one tablespoon first and see if it helps. That canned food adds up and it may just be too much for her. She's a small breed puppy, not a lot of room in there for a lot of food.

If a pup is pooping too much I always look at the amount of food being given first as that is often the cause. A god rule of thumb is to feed slightly less that what the dog food bag tells you to.

 

[Herschel]

I agree with silverpawz, you could cut back on the i/d if she is over her illness.

15 minutes after eating sounds about right. A friend of mine has a dog that has to go almost immediately after. This actually works to your advantage: you know that right after you dog eats she should go for a walk!

 

[Westie Girl]

Well, she has changed her schedule this morning. We cut back the food. She acts like she is starving. Not losing weight just really hungry. We went out before breakfast...nothing. Ate breakfast...nothing OUt again 15 minutes after that...nothing.

I think she must have pooped herself out yesterday...yikes. Now I am waiting to see what the schedule will be for today. Should I just crate her intermittently today. I guess I am unsure of how to do this. Herschel's schedule was very explanitory. Should I pop her in and out until she poops and continue that all day?

 

[Westie Girl]

Can't really tell if she is over the illness. She continues to have really soft stools so I am not sure if I should discontinue the i/d. We have an appointment on Monday so he will check for the coccidia again.

I guess I am wondering if I should just feed her i/d only or kibble only to see what happens. I think I may be over feeding with both.

 

[Herschel]

Well, she has changed her schedule this morning. We cut back the food. She acts like she is starving. Not losing weight just really hungry. We went out before breakfast...nothing. Ate breakfast...nothing OUt again 15 minutes after that...nothing.

I think she must have pooped herself out yesterday...yikes. Now I am waiting to see what the schedule will be for today. Should I just crate her intermittently today. I guess I am unsure of how to do this. Herschel's schedule was very explanitory. Should I pop her in and out until she poops and continue that all day?

If you can't watch her every move then she should be in her crate. It is kind of nerve wracking when they don't go on schedule, but that is the beauty of the crate. Just remember to let her out every now and then and when you do, just run towards the door.

When she does go out outside, make sure you watch her very closely to observe her little dance. For example, to go #1 my little guy keeps his nose down at the ground (sniffing) and walks a few steps. For #2, he starts walking really fast with his nose down, makes exactly 1 circle, and then stops and goes.

Please give her tons of praise, chest rubbing, and a treat every single time she goes outside. Squat down next to her and say, "Good 'Go Out'" or whatever your word of choice is.

 

[Herschel]

Well, she has changed her schedule this morning. We cut back the food. She acts like she is starving. Not losing weight just really hungry. We went out before breakfast...nothing. Ate breakfast...nothing OUt again 15 minutes after that...nothing.

I think she must have pooped herself out yesterday...yikes. Now I am waiting to see what the schedule will be for today. Should I just crate her intermittently today. I guess I am unsure of how to do this. Herschel's schedule was very explanitory. Should I pop her in and out until she poops and continue that all day?

How much does she weigh?

 

[Herschel]

Here is an example of our log book from 06/07, a Wednesday:

7:35A Out 1
9:00A (1/3 cup of food)
9:29A Out 1
10:10A Out 2
2:00P Out 1
2:05P (1/3 cup of food)
2:30P Out 1
5:52P Out 1
6:35P Out 1 + 2
7:05P (1/3 cup of food)
7:40P Out 1
8:25P Out 1
---Walk---
9:09P Out 1+2
9:35P Out 1
12:00A *IN* 1, Out 2

That 12:00A was our fault completely. He hadn't gone out in 3 hours--we should have had him crated but we didn't.

Saturday 06/24

10:30A Out 1
---11:00 - 12:00--Walk (Out 1+2)
12:15P (1/3 cup of food)
12:43P Out 1
1:30P Out 1
3:25P Out 1
3:40P (1/3 cup of food)
4:25P Out 1
5:40P Out 1+2
6:15P Out 1
7:00P (1/3 cup of food)
8:30P Out 1
8:56P Out 1
9:20P Out 2
1:00A Out 1
1:10A Out 2
1:35A Out 1

Hope that helps.