Colour Help
- Thread starter ~Tucker&Me~
- Start date
I stumbled across this when looking for an answer:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/goldmaraner.htm
While I can't stand that they've called it a "goldmeraner" and made it "designer", these puppies are black as well! Maybe that's just how the genes express when these dogs are mixed?
Strange!
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/goldmaraner.htm
While I can't stand that they've called it a "goldmeraner" and made it "designer", these puppies are black as well! Maybe that's just how the genes express when these dogs are mixed?
Strange!
So sorry about the long post, hopefully if you grit your teeth you can make it through the following. I stumbled across this post and realised that I could actually help someone out here! We have studied animal genetics recently in Biology in my University course, and I found them extremely fascinating. I don't pretend I know everything about genetics, but I hope this helps!
B/B, B/b B/? – produces a black dog (providing no other altering genes present)
b/b – produces a brown dog
D/D, D/d, D/? – produces a normal coloured dog (i.e. Black or brown, depending on genes at the B/b locus)
d/d – in addition to B/B, B/b, B/? – produces a blue dog
d/d – in addition to b/b – produces a fawn dog
E/E, E/e, E/? – produces a normal coloured (i.e. Black, brown, blue, fawn) dog
e/e – produces a golden, wheaten, cream etc. coloured dog
The E series of alleles only affects coat colour, not nose, lip, eye and paw colours. The Black/brown and dilution series of alleles still dictate the colour of these areas.
For example, a dog of the genotype e/e, b/b, D/D will be a golden coloured dog (e/e) with a brown nose, lips etc. (b/b). The nose colour allows us to see the genotype of the dog, even though it is golden coloured.
Onto the actual question:
The colour of the Weim is caused by a recessive gene that dilutes whatever the normal colour of the coat would be. In genetically black dogs, it dilutes the coat to blue (also called silver, Isabella), in genetically brown dogs, it dilutes the coat to fawn. The Weim in question would have been of the genotype B/? (meaning the pigment colour of the coat would be black) we can’t tell what the other gene at the B locus was, as B is dominant, regardless of the other gene at its locus. The Weim also has the genotype of d/d (meaning the Black was diluted to blue).
The golden coat colour seen in many breeds including Golden Retrievers and Labradors is actually the suppression of pigment colour; that is, the recessive alleles causing this colour (e/e) do not allow the formation of pigment in the coat. The golden coat colour masks the alleles occurring at the pigment producing locus (the B/b locus). Looking at most Golden’s noses, it is usual for the pigment to be black (B/? once again, we can’t tell what the other gene is at this locus). So, even though it looks golden, it is a genetically black dog.
So, the puppies can receive black alleles from both parents, and we assume that they did as they all turned out black. They could have been blue if the Golden had at least one recessive dilution gene (d) (we don’t know if it carried d or not, but we could assume it didn’t, as it is unusual for goldens to have smokey blue or fawn coloured noses) They could have been gold if the Weim carried at least one recessive e gene (e) (we don’t know if it carried an e or not, but we could assume it didn’t, as golden is a very unusual colour for Weims). They could also have been brown if both parents carried the recessive b gene (we don’t know if they did, as the dominant B gene masks the other gene being carried).
If you want to learn more, there are many websites out there that provide great explanations as well as pics. One good page is by the University of Saskatchewan at http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html
If you have any questions, just ask and I will try my best to answer them
B/B, B/b B/? – produces a black dog (providing no other altering genes present)
b/b – produces a brown dog
D/D, D/d, D/? – produces a normal coloured dog (i.e. Black or brown, depending on genes at the B/b locus)
d/d – in addition to B/B, B/b, B/? – produces a blue dog
d/d – in addition to b/b – produces a fawn dog
E/E, E/e, E/? – produces a normal coloured (i.e. Black, brown, blue, fawn) dog
e/e – produces a golden, wheaten, cream etc. coloured dog
The E series of alleles only affects coat colour, not nose, lip, eye and paw colours. The Black/brown and dilution series of alleles still dictate the colour of these areas.
For example, a dog of the genotype e/e, b/b, D/D will be a golden coloured dog (e/e) with a brown nose, lips etc. (b/b). The nose colour allows us to see the genotype of the dog, even though it is golden coloured.
Onto the actual question:
The colour of the Weim is caused by a recessive gene that dilutes whatever the normal colour of the coat would be. In genetically black dogs, it dilutes the coat to blue (also called silver, Isabella), in genetically brown dogs, it dilutes the coat to fawn. The Weim in question would have been of the genotype B/? (meaning the pigment colour of the coat would be black) we can’t tell what the other gene at the B locus was, as B is dominant, regardless of the other gene at its locus. The Weim also has the genotype of d/d (meaning the Black was diluted to blue).
The golden coat colour seen in many breeds including Golden Retrievers and Labradors is actually the suppression of pigment colour; that is, the recessive alleles causing this colour (e/e) do not allow the formation of pigment in the coat. The golden coat colour masks the alleles occurring at the pigment producing locus (the B/b locus). Looking at most Golden’s noses, it is usual for the pigment to be black (B/? once again, we can’t tell what the other gene is at this locus). So, even though it looks golden, it is a genetically black dog.
So, the puppies can receive black alleles from both parents, and we assume that they did as they all turned out black. They could have been blue if the Golden had at least one recessive dilution gene (d) (we don’t know if it carried d or not, but we could assume it didn’t, as it is unusual for goldens to have smokey blue or fawn coloured noses) They could have been gold if the Weim carried at least one recessive e gene (e) (we don’t know if it carried an e or not, but we could assume it didn’t, as golden is a very unusual colour for Weims). They could also have been brown if both parents carried the recessive b gene (we don’t know if they did, as the dominant B gene masks the other gene being carried).
If you want to learn more, there are many websites out there that provide great explanations as well as pics. One good page is by the University of Saskatchewan at http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html
If you have any questions, just ask and I will try my best to answer them
I'm going to have to read through that Lab color chart more closely when I have the time and alertness to do so. Color genetics fascinate me; I have so many bookmarsk to equine color genetic sites.
I had a breeder tell me once that most Golden mixes come out black; I'm still puzzled as to why we have so many "golden" colored GR mixes in for boarding. And why then most of the "Goldendoodles" are golden...though there is a black GD that is a regular at the resort.
I had a breeder tell me once that most Golden mixes come out black; I'm still puzzled as to why we have so many "golden" colored GR mixes in for boarding. And why then most of the "Goldendoodles" are golden...though there is a black GD that is a regular at the resort.