Chow Chows

IliamnasQuest

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#1
Okay, I can't help myself. With the recent "what dog do you dislike the most" thread (I know that wasn't quite the subject, but it's kind of how it ended up) I just have to say something about one of the breeds I really love (this is like deja vu .. I think I did this before on this forum .. *L*).

The chow gets a really bad rap, and some of it is deserved. Like many breeds, they went through a popularity phase and people started breeding like crazy just to provide puppies. The temperament went all to h*ll and it's been a long slow road back from that.

The chow is a very ancient breed. It can be recognized in artifacts dating back to at least 1000 B.C. It is one of the most versatile of breeds, having been used for hunting (and retrieving/pointing), herding/tending, packing, pulling sleds, and were even used for meat and fur. While today's chow tends to be looked at as an overgrown "foo-foo" type dog, a well-bred chow is a hearty dog with a lot of stamina ... one that can be quite active with its owner and work in a variety of venues.

The first big popularity surge was, I believe, in the 1920's. This started the road to the poorly tempered chow. Show breeding didn't always help this either. As the heaviness in the head and bone structure became popular, some show breeders bred to extremes and what resulted was a dog that couldn't see well, couldn't always breathe well and temperaments were not stellar either. But there are many good breeders out there really working towards dogs with good temperaments.

Also to blame are the chow owners who shrug off their dog's bad attitudes as "normal chow behavior". I've seen a number of people who do this and it's appalling. A good chow is not unpredictable, aggressive or eager to bite. It should have a nice solid temperament - aloof, perhaps, but not aggressive. Chows are good as guard dogs because they are quick to alert, but should not be quick to bite unless there is truly a threat.

I have three chows, all from different lines. My first one was from a backyard breeding between two chows that should have never been bred. Kylee has had various health problems through the years but has been an exceptional working dog. She has amazing herding instinct and was a natural on sheep. In obedience, she earned seven first and three seconds in Open A - retrieving and jumping - in classes of up to 25 dogs (including traditional obedience breeds like border collies and goldens). And at the age of nine, I spent two months teaching her agility basics and she earned her first agility title her first weekend of trials. She went on to earn four agility titles at the age of 9-10, and at 11 was pulled from retirement to earn yet another obedience title! Amazing dog. Maybe the only chow out there with a BH.

My second chow was a 14 month old girl with very little training, who was from a show breeder kennel down south. She was cute and tiny and pretty, but came to me with an attitude. We worked through that and she eventually earned a couple of agility titles and has turned out to be a very loving girl who is calm and kind with the youngest of children and the most infirm of the elderly. She's not very athletic, though, and has poor stamina. But given the right guidance, her temperament has been solid.

My third chow turns two today (November 3). She's out of Canada and is the most amazing little girl. Today we had to wait about an hour for some work to be done on my car, and I had Khana with me in the waiting area. She happily visited with all the guys, and one man came from the back because someone had told him "there's a chow out front". He had to come out and see her - and he knelt on the floor and she practically climbed into his lap. I'm actually hoping she gets a BIT more aloof .. *L* .. but I'm much happier with this temperament than the nasty one people tend to associate with chows. I have socialized her extensively from the time she was very young. She's currently in classes for competition obedience, rally and freestyle and is doing very nicely. I plan to test her in herding too.

But for all her wonderful temperament, she is the first to alert to noises and first to run to the door barking and then back to me to be sure I know she's alerting .. *L* .. if you want a guard dog that tells you someone's around, you can't get much more alert than the chow. My shepherds learned to sleep until the chows alerted, then they'd jump up and join in.

Yes, I've met some nasty chows .. and nasty labs and hounds and dalmatians and Aussies and border collies and terriers and shepherds and Belgians and Newfies and various other breeds. But I've also been to chow nationals twice and wandered through hundreds of chows, stopping to pet frequently and visit with owners. Not once was I growled at and not once did a dog refuse to be petted. They didn't always acknowledge me (that famous "aloofness") but none of them were aggressive towards me.

And that's how the breed is suppose to be. Let's all encourage people to get their dogs, whatever the breed, from good honest respectable breeders who put temperament high on their list of priorities - or from rescues who assess the dogs carefully and then help people understand the peculiarities of the breed. And lets also encourage people to be responsible for their dogs and the attitudes they have - encourage training and socialization and proper handling and exercise.

Then maybe we wouldn't all have these stories of "bad dogs" to share. Especially not about breeds that I love .. *L*

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Kylee herding:



Khana in therapy dog class:



Dora in agility:

 
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#2
Good, informative post! I have a question. In a well-bred Chow Chow, do they broadcast their intent? That's always been one of my main problems with the Chows I've met: They don't give you a lot of notice when they're ready to bite you. It could also be all the hair and the more deep-set eyes, but I just find them hard to read, and I'm wondering if its any different with Chows that have been bred with temperament as a concern.
 

bubbatd

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#3
I'm not putting down the breed . I've only really known 2 chows .... both snapped with no warning or provocation .
 

joce

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#4
I have met a few chows I have liked and I do like the breed for there history but almost every one I have met has been down right scary. I have never worried walking up to a pit but walking by a chow I move to the other side of the road or aisle or whatever. I know there are many great owners and dogs who do great things but all I seem to meet are the bad ones.
 
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#5
I used to be very insulted when we'd be out on a walk and see people cross the street to avoid us. Even when she was a puppy people would do that. Here my task as a chow owner is to make sure my chow is socalized and stays thats way. It's hard when people will go out of their way to avoid us. I love it when we meet up with someone who will stand and talk to me or her, not try to force a pet or hug, just give her a chance to sniff them.

This is a very misunderstood breed. The sad thing is you can do searches on Chows on the internet to learn more and find alot of negitive things. We live downtown, a bar next store. I will take her out back, let her walk around the yard, or she'll just lay and enjoy the breeze. She loves to lay there and watch people come and go from the bar. Store owners and customers she never barks at them, just watches them as they pass by her. On our walks if someone is brave enough to walk past us she tries to get a sniff of them. If we stop to talk to them, she walks around sniffing their feet and legs. Never growls or barks at them. If we meet up with someone with a puppy or baby she becomes their best friend so she can see the puppy or baby. Not a aggressive bone in her body. Does request a chance to get to know the person a little most of the time before accepting hugs.

Inside she's always on alert. Even when she's sleeping, she's still alert to sounds. We went a couple of weeks of her barking late at night, the bar closed, no reason for it. Then one night we were heading up the stairs to see a raccoon coming out of our porch! She's very alert.

I hate all the negitive thoughts about Chows. I personaly would never judge a dog by its breed. If a dog shows me I have reason to be leery of it, it will never be because its a certain breed, it'll be because that dog has issues. Last week we had a dog come at us barring teeth, I thought we were had. The owner yelled and the dog let us go. A few days later we saw the owner kick this dog! Explained alot about that dog.

The breed is wonderful. Just very misunderstood.
 

Jules

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#6
Very informative and good post! I was also one of the people who said that they feel uncomfortable around chows. I had a couple of bad experiences with chows- and their owners as well who, like you said, just shrugged things off.

I would not avoid an entire breed...and I do not avoid chows. I will probably be more alert when T-Bone and I meet a chow...but every dog, whatever breed, should be "judged" upon their behavior and not their status.
 

StillandSilent

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#7
We are overrun with chows here. There are a few "breeders" in town and every animal they crank out has a horrendous temperment. Almost every time I pick up at Animal Control I see at least one chow in the "bite" cages being held for its period. Very sad becaus ethey are such a lovely breed. Not for me with those heavy coats, but lovely.
I do have an intestesing Chow story. The man across the road from us has a black Chow that he uses to gaurd his cows. The dog has lived with them since it was a puppy and would die for any of them. A few years ago, a shepard jumped the fence and started mauling the Chow. The owner ran for his gun (To scare the shepard, not shoot it, except as a last resort). By the time he made it back outside, the herd of cows had surrounded the Chow to protect it and were using their heads to push the Shepard away. Guess they were saying thanks for taking such good care of them for many years.
 

Babyblue5290

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#8
Very good post!! :)

I had the oppurtunity to meet one VERY lovely chow chow!! It was such a gorgeous dog and so well trained! :)
 
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#9
When I worked as a Groomer bather back in the day Chows were the most feared thus I was asked to do them. I understood what set them off and never got bit- .
So I like them.:)
 

tempura tantrum

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#10
I've always been a fan of Chows. It might have something to do with a background in Nordic breeds, but I tend to really enjoy that "aloof" nature.

I've gone to a couple of shows where Chow specialties were being held, and each time, the temperaments on these dogs were rock solid. Pretty impressive when you're talking about intensely crowded conditions- it was literally impossible NOT to touch them. A dog with a weak temperament would've snapped.

A lot of it really DOES come down to the person that owns the dog. And when you're talking about socialization, it is ESPECIALLY imperative in the Nordic/Spitz-type breeds that you do an EXCELLENT job. These dogs just tend to be naturally wary of people, and improper socialization can turn that wariness into fear and/or aggression.

Of course there are poor examples of the breed out there, but I'd venture to say I've met just as many ill-tempered Goldens and Labs as of late, as I have Chows.

Great posts by the two Chow owners!

As always Iliamnas, your posts are incredibly informative!
 

IliamnasQuest

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#11
Good, informative post! I have a question. In a well-bred Chow Chow, do they broadcast their intent? That's always been one of my main problems with the Chows I've met: They don't give you a lot of notice when they're ready to bite you. It could also be all the hair and the more deep-set eyes, but I just find them hard to read, and I'm wondering if its any different with Chows that have been bred with temperament as a concern.
Chows ARE hard to read, and I think that both humans and other dogs often have problems reading the body language. Because they're built so "upright" in some ways - they're supposed to be up on their toes, have that thick mane that almost looks like they're hackling up, and the deeper set eyes with the heavy pads of flesh above them to give them that "scowl" - many dogs take offense to them, I think, because they read it as the chow challenging them. Add to it the tail tightly curled over the back and it can look like the chow is showing aggressive signs even though it isn't.

And chows, being naturally aloof, tend to just look at people with no visible expression at times. Khana, my youngest, is one of the most expressive chows I've seen. When she sees someone she wants to greet, her ears dip back and she gets this wiggle going that is SO obviously a happy thing and no one has ever been afraid of her. People pet her all the time. But when you look at my black chow - who has a bit heavier face, although still very "open" - she tends to not change expression much. Her tail will wag though.

The really heavy-headed chows tend not to show expression at all. I don't like the heavy look. I think it's counter-productive to the dog as a whole and most of those really heavy dogs are not physically capable of endurance or activity. People breeding for the heavy look are not helping the breed in any way.

Melanie and the gang
 

IliamnasQuest

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#12
StillandSilent - that's a great chow story! How interesting that the cows helped guard the dog! *L*

tempura tantrum .. it makes sense that you would like the breed! I have friends with shibas here who have trained with me and there are a lot of similarities about the two breeds. And my best friend has an akita, so we have a lot of nordic/spitz types around. They're different from other dogs in so many ways, and a challenge to work with.

I never recommend one of these breeds to someone who wants an "easy" dog .. *L*

Melanie and the gang
 

tempura tantrum

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#13
I never recommend one of these breeds to someone who wants an "easy" dog .. *L*
AMEN!!!

It baffles me the number of people who go into Nordic breeds without ANY sort of research, and then are surprised and offended when the dogs are difficult to train. If there was EVER a case against buying dogs based purely on looks- Shibas and Chows are some of the best. People get so hung up on the "cuteness" quotient, they never stop to think that these dogs also have brains...crafty ones.

It's not even that they're all that difficult to train- because I think almost anyone in the Nordic breeds can agree that they're whip-smart- it's that traditional training methods don't cut it with them. You can't be repetitive. You can't bore them. You certainly can't be heavy handed (or you'll be no-handed very shortly), And they want reasons as to WHY they should sit, WHY they should come, WHY "down" is a good idea. (Which is what I love most about them."

All I can say is kudos on the agility titles on your girls- that is a feat WELL worth applauding. (And one I hope to do myself- although I worry a TON about Kimi's recall...)

As to your example about why other dogs misread Chows- I honestly thing you're right on target. The quintessential "Chow image" in my mind DOES tend to mimic an aggressive/challenging sort of posture- even when it's purely their conformation, and not their intent.

I think a lot of people tend to look at that "scowl" and assume "mean" as well- without really giving the dog a chance.

I know that my dogs growl when they're happy and excited (bizarre but true), and this just BAFFLES other people. They greet guests with toys they've "killed," pin back they're ears, squint they're eyes, and growl, all while prancing towards the visitors. It often terrifies first timers- and I always have to be quick to explain that it's a "happy" sound, not an aggressive one.
 

RD

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#14
Often times Chows *are* difficult for non-Chow people to read. That's why it's important for the owner to keep a close eye on their dog and remove them from a situation when they are getting uncomfortable. Even my mix was difficult for other people to read, but I knew her inside and out and could predict what she was thinking of doing. She was a sneaky girl, but I had her number and she trusted me. If I left her in a situation, she assumed it was okay. Often times she did take situations into her own hands, she wasn't being rebellious or disobedient - she simply thought she knew a better way to address a problem. It made her a marvelous ranch hand, though not a fantastic obedience dog. :p

I will always love the breed. They are so unique, and completely devoted while remaining a bit aloof and very independent. Their intelligence is astounding . . . I know they've gotten a rap, but a special piece of my heart will always belong to the Chow Chow.
 

PixieSticksandTricks

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#15
All the chows I have ever met were good dogs. Not super happy "LETS PLAY LETS PLAY I LOVE YOU ALREADY!!!!" kind of dogs. But good well bred and well socialized dogs. I personally have never experienced a bad one but I have friends with scars and scary stories. I still have nothing against the breed.
 

Brattina88

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#16
It baffles me the number of people who go into Nordic breeds without ANY sort of research, and then are surprised and offended when the dogs are difficult to train. If there was EVER a case against buying dogs based purely on looks- Shibas and Chows are some of the best. People get so hung up on the "cuteness" quotient, they never stop to think that these dogs also have brains...crafty ones..
I agree... people.... :rolleyes:

But I have to admit when I see a Chow I feel like its a big teddy bear that just *has* to be squeezed in a big ole bear hug. [lol] ... Which I never do btw

I think they're hard for people to judge their behavior / reactions because of the image they have in their heads based on bad rep and unfair judgement :p

All the chows I have ever met were good dogs. Not super happy "LETS PLAY LETS PLAY I LOVE YOU ALREADY!!!!" kind of dogs. But good well bred and well socialized dogs. I personally have never experienced a bad one but I have friends with scars and scary stories. I still have nothing against the breed.
Must be our area :)
 
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#17
Great Post Melanie, :D . A Chow is a dog like any other. A lab has teeth just like a Chow. I have had both negative and positive experiences with Chows, just like everyother breed out there. One time I was outside at my grandmother's house, and I see a dog walking down the street, and sure enough it was a Chow. He came running towards my mother and I, like he was going to attack us. I didnt move (I learned that the hard way) just stood still. The dog finally reached me, jumped up on me and just stared at me in the eyes, and when I looked into his eyes I realized he was not going to hurt me. I guess he wanted some human attention. So I petted him for a while once he got off of me. He stayed with me for a couple of hours and just followed me around while I raked the leaves in the front yard. I would have kept him, but the owners who lived a few blocks down drove by and saw him. So they took him home and gave me $20 for taking good care of him (I was only like 9 years old so that was a big deal, lol). He was the sweetest dog, and that experience cancels out the negative experiences I had with Chows.
 

squirtsmom

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#18
I am glad you love your chows. I bent down to pet my bro thers chow chow, and ended up with 15 stitches under my eye.
 

IliamnasQuest

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#20
It's not even that they're all that difficult to train- because I think almost anyone in the Nordic breeds can agree that they're whip-smart- it's that traditional training methods don't cut it with them. You can't be repetitive. You can't bore them. You certainly can't be heavy handed (or you'll be no-handed very shortly), And they want reasons as to WHY they should sit, WHY they should come, WHY "down" is a good idea. (Which is what I love most about them."
Yep, these breeds are very smart - and when they want to do something, they do is beautifully! Khana is my freestyle dog. She knows more freestyle moves than any other dog in class. She can back completely around me while I turn circles the other way inside of her circle. She can heel on both left and right, do 180° pivots on either side by backing behind me (when on the right, she has to back her rump around to the left - and on the left, she backs around to the right, so it's opposite movements .. none of the other dogs can do that yet), and she's learned to turn her body around in front of me so her rump is to my knees, and then back up with me - her nose still pointing out away from me. By the time she was 18 months old, she could perform all the exercises in excellent rally with no problem - including backing three steps, standing on a hand signal with no physical contact, and folding into a down from a stand without moving forward at all. All of these behaviors can/are done without food lures or visible treats too. She's amazing in what she can learn. Our problem is that there are times when she finds other things more interesting and then it's hard to re-gain her focus. I've learned that I have to let her explore for awhile first (especially if we go to a new place) before I can expect that she'll focus on me.

All I can say is kudos on the agility titles on your girls- that is a feat WELL worth applauding. (And one I hope to do myself- although I worry a TON about Kimi's recall...)
You'll do it, and you'll have a great time doing it even with the various odd things these independent breeds do .. *L* .. Kylee was the epitome of steadiness most of the time, but her default behavior was to take a jump. Even in obedience, showing in utility, she'd start jumping if she wasn't sure what to do. I remember her doing a figure 8 jump once .. over the jump, around the end, over the jump, around the other end, over the jump .. *LOL* .. I was laughing so hard I could barely call her off! By the way, my friends with the shibas now have novice titles on both their bitch and their dog. I think I shared the photos of Khana meeting the pups .. if you didn't see them, remind me and I'll post them.

As to your example about why other dogs misread Chows- I honestly thing you're right on target. The quintessential "Chow image" in my mind DOES tend to mimic an aggressive/challenging sort of posture- even when it's purely their conformation, and not their intent.

I think a lot of people tend to look at that "scowl" and assume "mean" as well- without really giving the dog a chance.
The scowl is part of the chow and in the breed standard, but I can see why some people might find it imposing. It's made from extra padding ("buttons") above each eye and a thicker muzzle than most breeds. The scowl varies, though, from minimal (Khana and her open face) to overdone heavy-headed dogs. I don't like the heavy heads myself.

I know that my dogs growl when they're happy and excited (bizarre but true), and this just BAFFLES other people. They greet guests with toys they've "killed," pin back they're ears, squint they're eyes, and growl, all while prancing towards the visitors. It often terrifies first timers- and I always have to be quick to explain that it's a "happy" sound, not an aggressive one.
The shibas I know are the same way! So is the akita at times .. they can be very vocal. My chows tend not to be that way except with people they already know and like. Then they make all sorts of sounds that don't even seem "dog-like" .. *L* .. and some do sound like growls, even though I recognize them as happy sounds. The ears tipped back is typical in the chow greeting too - very much a happy thing, but many people probably see it as an aggressive action.

I wish more people bred for the good temperaments and more people took the time to make sure those temperaments remained good. None of my chows are in the least bit aggressive, but when I got Dora (she was 14 months old) she was quick to bite me when I tried to trim her nails and she also got into a couple of fierce fights with my other chow (Dora started them). It took some effort and I had to pull ALL of her privileges for a long time, but she turned into the sweetest little thing. All she needed was someone who set reasonable, safe boundaries and gave her lots of love when she remained within those boundaries.

Without boundaries, an dog with an independent mind can easily take over a household.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

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