Chaining dogs, your opinion?

Gempress

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#21
And miakoda, 100% of all people love to make up their own statistics to "prove" their own point. Thank you for also demonstrating that. ;)
*Irony attack*

But seriously, I'm curious. Why are you a member of Dogs Deserve Better when you said that you don't support anti-chaining legislation? The entire DDB organization is dedicated to it, and founded on that exact premise. You said you want to increase enforcement of general neglect laws, and that's great. Nobody here would disagree with you. But that's not what DDB is pushing for---at least, not according to their Web site.
 
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Miakoda

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#23
I have no objection to chaining a dog.
Exactly.

What I, and many others, do have an objection to is abusing and neglecting a dog or any other animal for that matter. The chain is not the issue. The fence the horses are behind is not the issue. It's the HUMAN that is the issue.

Yet it is far easier to pass blame onto an object that cannot defend itself and an object that can be protested and petitioned to make disappear than it is to go after the human truly responsible.

Personally, I find people who go after chaining to be cowards. Taking on a chain is an easy win. Taking on the human responsible for the neglect/abuse of the animal is much harder and requires a much braver person.
 

Giny

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#24
Curious question, when some of you say chaining, do you mean outside 24/7. I just want to make that clear.
 
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#25
At our house we don't have a fence, nor do we plan on ever getting one. We live in a small little group of houses in the middle of town where we are close to our neighbors and a fence would really truly limit the amount of interaction that we would have with them. Instead we have a long zip line with a rope on it that give the dogs a lot of place to run in the back and then a good old rope attached to a fence post in the front.

I have three dogs right now, one 5 year old female, one 15 year old male and a year and half old "puppy". Hannah, the five year old female doesn't like to be outside unless she is getting direct interaction with someone or they are sitting out there when she is out, and even then she would much rather be inside on the couch. The Kaylee, the year and half old one wants nothing to do with being outside unless she is being played with or getting into something. But Rascal, our 15 year old male loves nothing more than being outside on the lead sleeping in the grass.

In the summer he's out on his lead for hours at a time, typically, depending on the heat, for at most 14ish hours a day. He has water and gets fed out there and my dad will a lot of times sit on our deck while he's out there. Rascal (and the other dogs) have the option to go in at all times, the lead reaches the door to our house which they can push open and do push open when they feel like it. But he doesn't do that very often. He loves it outside on his rope basking in the sun.

He doesn't really go on walks, he's old with arthritis, half blind and deaf. But he does love to be outside. If we had a fence in yard he would do the exact thing he does now, lay down and sleep.

Hannah while not a fan of being a lone outside also likes to lie there in the summer and sleep and/or play with Rascal. She will normally be out there for a few hours everyday.

My dogs, in my opinion are better taken care of than many dogs I see that aren't tethered or restrained with some kind of rope/chain etc. Would I like to have a fence? Of course I would, but do I think not having one makes me a bad dog owner? Not in the least, I think it makes me responsible enough to figure out a safe alternative to a fence that keeps my dogs happy.

As was said, fences are not cheap and when you begin to make decrees that every dog owner should have one you make dog ownership very elitist. Instead of anit-chaining/tethering proponents making blanket statements that are proved false repeatedly why not look at how the dog is physically and mentally?

Not every tethered dog is an unhappy/neglected dog and not every unhappy/neglected dog is a tethered dog.
 

Miakoda

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#26
Curious question, when some of you say chaining, do you mean outside 24/7. I just want to make that clear.
I personally do not leave my dogs chained at night. They come inside into kennels at night and are usually kenneled during real bad weather. Other than that, they are chained outside and are rotated in the house throughout the day and someone always sleeps loose in the house at night. They are also all walked and played with daily and some get treadmill time.

However, I do know many, many people who keep their dogs on chains day and night. However, that doesn't mean one bit that those dogs are not properly exercised daily and given time off the chain either inside with the family or outside with the family.

The thing is, with APBTs, you can't just have a bunch of them loose in your house without having the ultimate recipe for disaster. Chaining is responsible in our case as it allows our dogs the space to play and stretch their legs without being in danger of fighting with one another and getting seriously hurt (if not fatally injured).

My neighbor's across the street have a Beagle, a Lab, a Golden Retriever mix, and a Dachshund (not a mini). After 4 major fights and well over $2,000 in vet bills, they now have 3 dog houses and 3 chains and 1 tie-out (for the D). When they are not home to supervise, the Dachshund goes into his kennel and the other 3 dogs are chained to prevent them from injuring each other over the random squirrel, stick or ball that one finds and decided to hoard.
 

Miakoda

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#27
Not every tethered dog is an unhappy/neglected dog and not every unhappy/neglected dog is a tethered dog.
Amen.

And it's groups like DDB that take the focus OFF of helping all abused and neglected dogs by their strict focus on ending chaining and harrassing only those people who do chain/tie-out their dogs.
 

Sweet72947

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#29
The problem is not chains. The main problem seems to be getting the proper authorities to enforce their own animal cruelty laws. If you your research, and talk to people, you will find that in their area either there aren't enough officers, or AC seems not to care about doing their job, or the laws are inadequate (food, water and shelter can translate to a crappy dog house, moldy food and green water, and who cares if the dog has a chain growing into its neck, the requirements by law are all met!!).

A lot of rural areas, including areas in Canada, seem to have these problems. Some people may not think they even have an animal control. If you search "your county" animal control, it will probably come up, either that or animal control is handled by the police, and they probably have more important things to do than care about animal abuse, although if you search your state's Code, there are likely some state-level ordinances (not sure about Canada's provinces).

I once stumbled across a web page for these ladies in Canada who steal abused, chained dogs. They can't get AC to do anything, and are tired of watching the dogs suffer, so they steal them. This site had pictures of dogs with frostbitten ears, chains in their necks, etc. Stealing is a crime though, and if caught these ladies would be in a lot of trouble. Steal - go to jail. Not steal - watch dog suffer and die.

Either way, they lose.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#30
A chain or tie out is like any other "tool", if you use it responsibly there isn't a problem with it..........if you don't then it's a bad thing. Not much different than a crate.

Leave your dog chained 24/7 or leave the dog locked in a crate all the time............either way is misuse of a tool, cruel and inhumane IMO
Agreed!
I think that the issue most people have with a chain is the image it portrays. I know that I would rather see a dog on a tie out than a chain, but I also know that a tie out is not strong enough for all dogs. But I also have the sense to know that there is genuinely a need for tougher material to keep dogs where they need to be. I'd much rather see a dog secured in it's own yard then running loose because there is a lack of fencing or what have you. As Coop said, done responsibly, there shouldn't be a problem with it and those that typically do have an issue with it aren't focusing on the right things.

And miakoda, 100% of all people love to make up their own statistics to "prove" their own point. Thank you for also demonstrating that. ;)
Or perhaps we should be thanking YOU for demonstrating that? :D
 

Lilavati

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#31
I have no problem with chains or tethers. I have a problem with cruelty and poor dog ownership. I don't really have a problem with the anti-tether rules that put a 12 hour time limit, or don't let dogs be chained at night, but those are really just enforcement tools against cruelty, and would not be necessary if cruelty laws were enforced.

I have a huge problem with "no chaining ever" or "only 15 minutes" or "must be standing next to dog staring at them if they are chained" laws. Those don't do anything to protect dogs from cruelty . . . they just make it harder to own a dog for people who don't have fences. I'm especially ticked about the one that won't let you tether a dog to an object even if you are standing right next to them. This does nothing to help the dog, does nothing to prevent cruelty, and indeed prevents socialization. I tether Sarama to the front porch while I'm gardening, since there is no fence in the front yard . . . tell me how this makes her agressive or is abusive?
 

bubbatd

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#32
I had to tether IB for potty breaks when we temporarily moved in with daughter . Hated to , but with her brain tumor she was out of it .
 

Miakoda

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#33
And miakoda, 100% of all people love to make up their own statistics to "prove" their own point. Thank you for also demonstrating that. ;)
Uhh.....no **** that was made up. I was being sarcastic in resonse to your "90% blah blah blah" statement. It's so easy to ramble off statistics. It's much harder to back them up with foolproof numbers and evidence.
 

Miakoda

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#34
I had to tether IB for potty breaks when we temporarily moved in with daughter . Hated to , but with her brain tumor she was out of it .
And that's what people don't realize. There are a variety of reasons why people must chain/tether their dogs.
 

eddieq

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#35
I have a tie-out attached to my deck. We'll put Xena on it and watch her from the back door of the house so she can do her business then come right back in.

I agree that chaining/tethering alone is not the issue. It's the neglectful way a handful of dog owners do it that gives the ones that do it responsibly a bad rep.
 
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#36
In my area its all to common to see dogs heavily chained, on a small short chain at that, with no shelter. And no human interaction. That is where they live. It has made me not trust any dog I see on a chain. Everyone has a fence here...so there is no reason to chain a dog up. And if you are going to just tether them cause you don't have a fence...A CHAIN is not the appropriate thing to use.

My friend's sister's boyfriend's dog spent his life on a chain. They bred him (he was a pit bull). Then they took two of the puppies, and just threw them out in the backyard with Blue. He killed one, and harmed the other. They got rid of him somehow (Said he "ran away")...And now the female is chained in his place, and I KNOW he is going to breed that poor dog.
 

Doberluv

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#37
I've never generally liked the idea. I do believe that in some cases, dogs become more defensive when the flight option is removed from the fight or flight thing. They're vulnerable in some situations and I think they know it. Not every dog will react that way but I've seen a lot that do. That is not to say that proof is present because other variables may be at play. There does however, seem to be some correlation. My son has a friend who ties up his pit bull and when he's on the chain, he lunges, snarls and snaps viciously. When he is in the house or otherwise loose, he is not that way. I knew someone with a Chow and a GSD mix and those dogs were chained 24/7. To me that's pathetic. They rarely came inside, had little family interaction. That's abuse. They were also "aggressive" when you'd come close. It might be a territory thing or a vulnerability thing. Who knows? There's a GSD I see when I'm on my way home tied to a dog house. That dog has been like that since I moved here...probably before. For 8 years, as I drive by this same house, there he is, tied out there. It doesn't matter what time of day or night. He's there with a dirt yard around him. That breaks my heart. That's how he's spent his whole life and it doesn't appear that he gets to come in the house ever.

When I see Miakoda's pictures, those dogs look like they're fine with it. But I know that they are not tied out there for prolonged periods. They seem to be entertained by their toys and have happy expressions. But she brings them in and does things with them too.

When my Lab was old, she seemed to be getting senile. She'd wander away, go down the dirt road I live on to a neighbor's and hang out there. It is a quiet little lane and I wasn't worried about her walking the short distance she went. They loved her to pieces and told me to just leave her alone (lol) and she even let their chickens peck her muzzle and she'd just wag her tail. I'd know where she was and would go get her. It got worse and worse, where if I turned my back on her for just a few seconds while gardening or mowing, she'd disappear where she didn't use to do that. It got to be such a hassle that I decided to tie her to a tree while I finished my mowing or whatever. She didn't look too happy about it, but lay down and went along with it. Sometimes she'd attempt to walk around and would come to the end of the rope and look sad. But then again, she wasn't use to being tied up either and that abrupt end to her freedom as she reached the end of the rope was foreign to her. But I didn't tie her longer than about 1/2 to 1 hour. If I were paying attention to her, she wouldn't leave so then I'd do something fun with her. But I can't imagine leaving her tied up for a long time. She wouldn't have been happy.

So, I guess it depends on how tying a dog is carried out. As long as it's not prolonged periods....hours and hours, as long as the dog gets ample exercise, fun, interaction with his family and indoor time, I don't have a problem with short stints. I do think that when chained, the owners should be at home in case they strangle or otherwise injure themselves. Tied to a deck with stairs is very dangerous because they can get wrapped up, jump or fall to the lower level and hang themselves. Again, supervision is needed IMO. And I don't think chaining should be in lieu of a fence. In a fenced yard, the dog can wander around easily without something pulling on his neck. He can run a little bit....better than when chained.

For me personally, besides that one situation with my Lab, Bonnie, I've never tied a dog out in the yard because I simply haven't felt a need to, partly because of my environment. But I guess if that's the only way a dog can bask in the sunshine and fresh air, just hang out and watch the world, besides walks etc, and he's happy enough about it, I guess it's okay for a while if the owners are around.
 
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#38
Many dogs are renowned escape artists that can get out of a fenced back yard even with modifications. Tethering them inside a fenced yard is sometimes the safest and only way to keep them inside the yard short of crating them at all times when unsupervised.

Or you might have the case where there are multiple dogs that can't be alone together and so they are tethered/chained behind a fenced yard so a fight doesn't break out.
I'm not sure why the fact that it's a CHAIN makes that much of a difference.

A dog owned by someone who will neglect it, starve it and abuse it while on a chain isn't going to have a major turnaround because they aren't allowed to keep it on a chain and have to instead abuse neglect and starve it in a whole backyard instead.

It's a tool, and very few tools are inherently evil or can't be used for good. Education on proper treatment of a dog and enforcing existing laws would do much better than making arbitrary laws that harm more good owners than not
 

puppydog

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#39
Now Tessa, pray tell, what if a person does not have a fenced yard? What if their dog really enjoys good chunks of the day outside? What should they do? Leave the dog locked inside?
There is nothing wrong with a dog being outside, with the owners at home, on a chain. If the dog is left outside for hours and hours at a time, alone, with no supervision, then you have a problem.

I personally feel it is far more cruel to constantly confine a dog indoors, letting it outside for potty breaks only. I am lucky, I have a fully fenced yard. My two pooter about in and out at their own discresion. Before it was fenced fully, Ben was on a run line. He prefered it to being locked inside.
 

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