Can't remove/put on harness or collar

[LhasaLover]

Hi,
I'm new here and this forum looks great, with a lot of positive information!!

I have a strange problem and don't know how to handle it. I foster Lhasa Apsos/similar mixes, and adopted one of them last June. Willie is a Shih Tzu mix, young but unknown age (est 1.5 - 2.5 yrs), picked up off the streets. He was labeled as a biter and was going to be put down but at the last minute, on the euthanasia table, he licked the tech's hand and she couldn't do it, calling rescue instead. (he kisses me to death!)

He's truly a very happy, bouncy little guy and I could see that the minute I saw him; my Lhasa & he are inseparable. He was very hyperactive & needy when I got him, though - had food aggression, no dog or human social etiquette, and many, many fear aggression triggers. Because of that, he went thru 4 or 5 overloaded foster homes in 3 weeks, until I got him.

He bit me pretty badly just once shortly after I got him. He's so bad at the vet's that they have to sedate him in order to do anything, but it's a wonderful vet office and they've been super with everything; they even sedate him to shave him down for me every few months until I can get him fully groomable at home. (I think it helps that my Lhasa is such a sweetheart that she loves them no matter what they do, so they know I know how to handle dogs) I finally realized he responds very well to "play game" training and we've conquered 90% of his problems, but we're still working on housetraining, and he's just learning to let me bathe him this week (with the assistance of a little plastic pool outside that we're learning to "play" in).

The one problem I can't seem to figure out how to handle is so strange.....

He's absolutely phobic about anything going over his head and refuses to let anyone take his harness off or put it back on; he starts growling, snarling, and *will* bite - I can't even get a muzzle on him because of this. I want to switch him to a collar now, but can't get his harness off.

Anyone have any ideas on how I can get him comfortable with this (in a fairly short time) without freaking him out? I don't want any of our progress to revert, and I don't want to get bitten again.

Thank you!!

 

[Doberluv]

It sounds like you've done wonders for him! Kudos to you for your fantastic work. You're right....everything can be a game. And you can turn the bad things into good things.

I would recommend putting the harness right down on the floor and putting his food around it and inbetween the straps so he has to put his head near it in order to eat. Do that for 3 or 4 days....even putting some high value treats in there inbetween, during the day. Then hold it on your lap and turn it into a tug toy, if he likes that game. Hold a great treat like cheese or real meat through the loop so he has to come close to your hand and the harness to eat. Then move your hand back a ways so he has to poke his head almost in line with the straps to eat, then progress so he has to poke his head through a loop made by the harness straps to reach your hand with the treat in it. Loads of happy praise and treats for calm behavior. Do that a few times every day for 3 or 4 day or until he's absolutely comfortable and unafraid.

Do the same with a collar or muzzle. Don't fasten these things on him yet. Just get him comfortable with sticking his muzzle close, then closer and finally, through the loop that the straps make. And in the case of the muzzle, you can feed him right in it, like it's a bowl.

When, and only when he is completely comfortable with all that, lay the harness across his back without fastening it or putting his head through it. Make it like a game and give lots of treats and your happy, playful voice. Do the same with the collar. Lay it across his neck....back and forth a few times.

Once he's OK with that, try taking one loop of the harness and sticking his head through by luring it through with a tantalizing treat. Work with him when he's hungry. Let it sit there for just a couple of seconds and take it off again. Anyhow...you get my meaning, I'm sure. Gradual desensatizing. Don't move forward until he's comfortable with a previous step. Then you can try buckling it. But take it off soon after, but only when he's calm. Don't remove it if he's throwing a tizzy fit. He'll learn that that is how he gets to have it taken off.

Continue to make everything fun and VERY rewarding. Cook gourmet food and work with him when he's hungry, before his next meal time. Or, better yet, use his food that he would otherwise get in a bowl as his reward, but do add in plenty of high value stuff. Tiny pieces so he doesn't get too fat.

Just take it slowly and gradually, but act confident, not tentative. Happy, nothing is wrong. It's a game. Turn the scary, bad things into good, happy, toy type things. Let us know how he comes along.

 

[squirtsmom]

Welcome to chaz, and good post doberluv.

 

[Doberluv]

Yes, welcome! Thanks Squirtsmom. One other thing I thought of. If he's afraid or snarling, don't back off and don't try to sooth him by cooing at him or making a fuss over him. That will just reinforce that behavior. If he throws a tizzy fit at any stage, it means you've gone too far too fast. Back up to where he was Ok and work there a little longer. When you're working with him, perhaps sitting on the floor fooling around with the harness, try not to sit facing directly toward him and don't look straight at his face. Sit sideways, kind of parallel to him...keep your face slighty turned to the side. This will help him feel a little more at ease, like you're not coming right at him with something scary. Don't ever stand in front of him, bending over him or hovering over. That can make him defensive too. Later, when he's much more trusting, you can gradually get him to accept that sort of body language a little better.

 

[LhasaLover]

Thank you for the welcome, and thanks for that post, Dober. That sounds like it'll work as long as I'm patient, as always with him. The idea of using his muzzle as a food cup is a great one! He's matting up under the harness which is why I don't want to let this go too long.

This little guy has seriously tested my patience, I'm telling you! Once last fall I lost my patience with him when he wouldn't let me unhook him from his tieout after bringing him in - something I'd done hundreds of times with no prob. I have no idea what triggered him, but he started trying to bite me everytime I reached down to unhook him. I couldn't get within a foot without him snarling.

I'd had it that night, so I went and put on some thick suede gloves and told him "we're having it out tonight". Over the next 20 minutes he must've bit me about 30 times; when he figured out he couldn't get thru the gloves with just a bite, he started trying to 'saw' thru them with his teeth, but still couldn't get thru. (he was pinching pretty good, tho lol) I even slapped him in the face once - something I never, ever do to my pets; but that didn't faze him at all (and I felt horrible about it, but I had to see if it would work). I finally gave up, walked away and ignored him for a while until he started whining. Everytime he started snarling again, I walked away and I finally managed to get him unhooked. We had a couple more slight episodes like that afterwards, but I figured out how to manage it ahead of time, and now he's happy when I do it, going in or out.

He's been a serious lesson for me, both in patience and behavoir 'management' vs. behavoir 'correction'. He responds very negatively, even aggressively, to confrontation and the normal "NO" that works with most dogs. He's put me thru the wringer figuring out what works with him.

The flip side is that he's 95% extreme joy & happiness with a very good heart, and loves having visitors and kids to play with (although I still stay very close when he's with kids). I've given up on other biting foster dogs passing them on to other foster homes, but I've always just 'known' Willie will be a great & trustable dog when we get thru all this, and he's proving me right. He even mouthplays with me now, softer than my Lhasa who's been doing it with me for 3 years. :lol-sign: I can only imagine that he must've been very mistreated before, both with his previous owners and on the streets.

Well, thanks again for the advice! I'm going to start that this evening and maybe we can have it worked out by the end of the week.

Here's a pic of Willie. You can see more pics of him & my other animals, including my (Lhasa) baby girl Pinkie here - Pics - they're all thumbnailed.

 

[RD]

Doberluv knows more about this kind of stuff than I do but I will say that by walking away every time he snarls at you, you're letting him win. He's snarling because he wants you to back off.

If you need to back off, wait for him to relax with you in your present position before you relieve that pressure on him. Even if it means he tries to bite you (wear gloves, for some reason little dogs go for the hands), you stay where you are. As soon as you get a calm response from him, stop pushing any further and immediately walk away.

As for the harness issue, I would have someone restrain him, put the muzzle on him and take the harness off. It'll stress him out but better to stress him while removing the harness than to have to put him under anesthesia again.

As for the collar, will he let you cup your hand and run it over his head? If so, you can just start petting him and clip it on or off while he's distracted by the petting.

 

[LhasaLover]

...If you need to back off, wait for him to relax with you in your present position before you relieve that pressure on him. Even if it means he tries to bite you (wear gloves, for some reason little dogs go for the hands), you stay where you are. As soon as you get a calm response from him, stop pushing any further and immediately walk away.

Thank you. That works with him for some things, like when I'm petting him and he starts growling for some unknown reason. I stop, but I won't move my hand until he relaxes and settles down, but then I praise him for doing that.

There are other things, tho, that will set him off for hours or the rest of the day, and the harness falls in that category. I don't like to stress everyone out - him, Pinkie, my cats, my Mom & I - just to prove a point with him. Pinkie & my Mom get scared, and one of my cats (19 lbs) has no prob going after him when he acts like that. That gets really ugly. :yikes: That's why I try to find different ways to get thru to him.

 

[Christin Luvs Dogs]

While I don't believe in direct confrontation with a dog who is a scared as Willie, I do agree that if he does start to snarl you just need to calmly hold your ground until he's done. He'll learn that you don't hurt him or go away when he reacts like that.

I think you have a very delicate situation with the collar/harness trigger. I think Doberluvs advice was excellent. The only thing I thought of in addition to that would be to see if he will gradually let you touch his harness (wherever the least threatening place would be) as you feed him some fantastic food. Chicken, liver, even salmon. It may help the desensitization process.

Does he mind being touched by you in general? Or is it only when the collar/harness is involved?

Keep up the great work rehabilitating this little guy!

 

[Melissa_W]

All I have to stay is bless you for helping this little dog! He sounds like a real handful! Good luck with him, I'm sure you'll get lots of help from the folks on this forum.

 

[LhasaLover]

Thanks, Melissa. He really is a joy & a little clown most of the time and I know it's just a matter of time until we work out all his fear reactions he learned from his past. He's actually turned into quite the "momma's boy" and rarely leaves my side, but without being possessive; he's learned to sit patiently while I'm paying attention to my other pets or they're in my lap. I tease him about being a 'woos' - he knows when I'm teasing him now, too; he jumps up on me all happy & starts kissing me or mouth wrestling.

Christin, when I first got him, no one could touch the back half of his body, his tail or his ears (that's how a hot spot under his ear flap got away from me), nor could I use 2 hands to pet him with. Couldn't brush him, clean him, trim him, or give him the eye drops or ear drops he needed when I first got him, either. But I've been seriously working on that and I've got almost his entire body done as far as touching & petting it now, except he's still a little sensitive on his paws. I've even gotten him to where I can grab, 'smush', and hold his face with both hands, from any direction. (the goal there is to be able to trim his face without a problem)

Last week he was excited about something and jumped up to put his paws on my legs, so I reached down to pet & 'scrub' his head, as usual. Then he sat back on his haunches which he'd never done before, so I seized the opportunity to try to teach him what 'sit up' meant, by just holding my hands out flat under his front paws to stabilize him. He sat there for a second, then suddenly realized what was happening, and went ballistic. That's what it's like doing a lot of new things with him, but his recovery times are getting much faster now, almost instantly. I have to be very careful about where I push him, because he regresses when I push him too much.

I've been working on touching and moving his harness from top to bottom; he even likes to roll over against me for me to pet his belly. But it's a very specific action to unbuckle it and that's when he gets nasty. Even when I can do that, I still have to pull it over one leg & over his head, and that's going to be a problem.

It just occurred to me that I could simply cut it off him after I get it so he'll let me put his new collar on (duh! )..... I may do that. I had to cut his tieout once when he was sick, regressed to the snarling/biting thing, & I had to get him to the vets office right away. (Even a car ride is traumatic for him, so I didn't want to stress him out before we even got to the car. We're working on that, too.)

Thanks to all of you for your help here!! I've been really stumped & frustrated with this, but I'm positive we can get this handled in the next couple of days now.

 

[bubbatd]

Why oh why don't breeders do their jobs when they have litters !!! These problems go back to day one and could have so easily been prevented !! Kudos for ALL you're doing for this little guy !

 

[LhasaLover]

Thank you, but he's a rescue dog & not a purebred, from what we can tell. Boy, if I got a dog like this from a breeder, I'd be all over them and probably get them put out of business.

 

[Doberluv]

When you say he's phobic, what is he like when he snarls and snaps? Does he ever look frightened, cowering, shivering, crouching and then he snarls and snaps....or does he come straight at you without hesitation, muscled up, forward leaning....what's his body language like?

 

[LhasaLover]

Wow, this isn't easy to describe in writing, but I'll try... First, tho, let me say that he's not a fearful or timid dog at all, nor does he swing to the other side of that pendulum. He's just a normal dog, usually happy & excited about everything.

Whenever he's going to react negatively to anything, I can see it in his eyes first. It's like his body freezes and his mind turns inward, if you can imagine what I'm seeing? His eyes aren't focusing on anything, but they get wide & he's become alert to everything. If I don't redirect him at that second, he erupts when whatever he's dreading happens. He growls first, then snarls, then moves to strike if you've ignored all his warnings.

- The first time I tried to put a stretchy scarf collar over his head, we had been playing with it first. The second I moved to put it over his head, he exploded and that's when I got bit. That one was without warning.

- Then the harness thing came up. The first time I put it on him & the first time it came off, no prob - nothing unusual or painful or anything. But I couldn't get it back on him without someone holding him down, while he snarled and growled the whole time. I've attempted it a couple of times since then and get the same reaction. If I even move to unbuckle it now, he starts growling.

- The vet tried to cone him last fall for a facial hot spot he'd scratched raw. Willie's favorite Tech was holding him and the vet was extremely quiet, calm, patient and moved slowly, but Willie literally screamed at the top of his lungs for 10 minutes straight while he tried to do it and we finally gave up.

I've observed that it only takes once for something to happen that scares him, and he remembers it. (there's actually a funny story behind that, but I'll spare you LOL) If I was going to make a guess at why he's like this, I'd guess it was because of how he was picked up by animal control. They labeled him as a biter so I'm guessing the animal control person wasn't the kindest person in town, and if they used that pole with the loop on it that they have to put over their heads, that may be what started this. They may have repeatedly used it to move him around, too.

Does that give you an idea of how he is, and any other ideas about how to handle this?

 

[Doberluv]

He may not be as afraid as he seems. It could be that he's just ticked off and maybe in the past, his owners reacted to his little objections and gave into his every whim and he has found out that it works to snap and growl. It sounds by your description of his body language and how he is the rest of the time (not timid) that he is just angry about doing what he doesn't want to do.

However, I'd still work on desensatizing him slowly and beef up the obedience skills using positive methods. He needs to react to your direction rather than you reacting to him very much. Some NILIF should help too. If you don't see some improvemen in a few weeks, I'd call in a certified behvaiorist to observe him and you. Let us know how things go. I wish you the very best. You've done such good things with him so far.

 

[LhasaLover]

He may not be as afraid as he seems. It could be that he's just ticked off and maybe in the past, his owners reacted to his little objections and gave into his every whim and he has found out that it works to snap and growl. It sounds by your description of his body language and how he is the rest of the time (not timid) that he is just angry about doing what he doesn't want to do.

Ya, I'm not discounting that possibility either. I probably haven't been as strong as I should be all the time, either, given the fact that he *will* bite. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for all your help!!

Oh, what's "NILIF" mean? hehehe I get confused with all the acronyms around here.