Calling all multiple dog owners: how did you prioritize breed traits?

[SpaceMutt]

Another thread got me thinking about my Potential Next Dog.

I have breed qualities that I like and dislike, as many people do, and from that I have a shortlist of breeds that I'm dying to own. The problem is, for all the different qualities I like about them, a few of them are known to be DA.

I have talked with breeders about this. I'd get a female to deal with possible SSA. I'm trying to be responsible about this, but it still just...worries me. Astro is my baby, my little idiot, and he is SO "I need you to play with me!" that he annoys some dogs, and I'm scared that he would push every button of a less tolerant breed. But people do it, right? Dobermans and Bull terriers and Shar Pei, they can live in multi-dog homes! There are people on this forum with 2+ Dobermans, with Shar Pei + another dog. I guess I can just anticipate how much I'd feel like I let Astro down if I brought home a puppy that grew into a dog that grumped at him.

But is the worry of possible DA enough to skew me toward other breeds? Should that be the deciding factor? I can't tell. I can't tell if I really want a Springer (doesn't fit a lot of my other wants), for instance, or if I'm just too scared to go for what I really want, and I haven't heard of a Springer attacking another dogs and they fit me really well on paper in some ways....feels like every breed I'm actually drawn to and love love love either has significant health problems, a weird attitude toward other dogs, or both

I guess my larger discussion point is, how do you decide what your dealbreakers are? What are the things that make you say "I love everything else about this breed, but this one thing I can't deal with"? I know this is probably related to the "do you get another dog based on your current dog, or on your own wants" idea, but, well, I'm making the thread anyway. I'm just curious to see how people navigate this, this prioritization of breed traits when looking at something new or different to the current dog.

So to make it even broader than my current issue, if, say, you want 10 things, 10 traits, how do you rank them? If you have 5+ breeds that are possibles, how do you narrow it down - what traits start being the "I MUST have this" and the "I can't deal with this as well as I thought I could'? Gut feeling? Just spending more and more time around the breeds? Or can it be sheer volume, like, this breed has 10 million pluses (that would be Springers for me), this other breed has 4 strong pluses but 5 minuses, so obviously they're out....but if your gut is being an idiot and pulling you toward that second breed that obviously makes less sense, what do you do?

And yes, I overthink things too much opcorn: I just want what's best for my smoosh-face, and it gets the best of me sometimes....plus I like the discussion on this forum! And I'm at that crossroads where I've been talking to multiple breeders concretely for some time now, and litters for the next year-2 years are being planned and spoken for, and I need to be less wishy-washy and figure this thing out, but I'm afraid of making the wrong decision.

 

[Laurelin]

Well my current two are the same breed.

I have a tendency to go with what I know works. I know shelties and I know papillons. I know both fit me alright though not perfectly but I can deal with the things that aren't perfect.

But I'm definitely not getting a sheltie or a papillon next. I still love both paps and shelties but want something new.

I have a list of dogs I'd like eventually and to be honest the more I'm around lots of dogs the more it solidifies what I want in my dogs. The list of eventual breeds are all dogs I think I could take now and be happy with. As far as choosing which one will happen NEXT, I am pretty sure I have decided. It's been a difficult decision but a lot will depend on what is available at the right time. I've tried to fit things as best I can but there is some give and take. Mia's ideal dog would be probably no other dog (lol) or a male papillon but I don't want something the same size as them. So she'll have to deal. If I knew for sure she would not tolerate another dog I wouldn't get one but she is friendly with larger dogs if given time to get used to them. So I'm anticipating a bit of a snarkfest at first then her calming down.

So overall I'm trying to choose a breed that fits what I want as a pet and also a sport dog. No breed out there is perfect for me. So there's a compromise any way I look. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on which compromise is the best to make.

 

[Shai]

I tend to figure out what's most important to me, trait-wise, and then look for dogs that fit those traits, that I love to be around, that I can picture living with and loving every minute of it.

And then get a dog from those lines haha.

So far so good

 

[AmberD]

I have dealt with the fact that I have an annoying fondness for breeds with dog aggression (and prey drive) by getting adult dogs that I know will work (plus I'm just not a puppy person). I've had a male Akita and three female pit bulls (one mix) living together before. Additions to my original two (the two I have now) have only come into the household after being tested. If I ever did want a puppy, I'd have to pick a breed that wouldn't have a high probability of turning out DA - or wanting to eat my cats. I'm not home enough, nor do I have the patience, for a permanent crate & rotate situation.

 

[SizzleDog]

Luckily in my breed, bitches tend to get along for the most part. So.... I just own a lot of bitches.

I'm at the point now where I have to figure out if I want to risk a multiple male household, because my future Ibizan might be a male. Stark is obviously not SSDA yet, but it's extremely common in male dobes so I am concerned about it.

We'll reevaluate next year and make a decision... but hey, bitches are fun too!

 

[SpaceMutt]

There's definitely no rulebook or right answer, that's why I like hearing how individuals have dealt with this, so thanks guys

I have dealt with the fact that I have an annoying fondness for breeds with dog aggression (and prey drive) by getting adult dogs that I know will work (plus I'm just not a puppy person). I've had a male Akita and three female pit bulls (one mix) living together before. Additions to my original two (the two I have now) have only come into the household after being tested. If I ever did want a puppy, I'd have to pick a breed that wouldn't have a high probability of turning out DA - or wanting to eat my cats. I'm not home enough, nor do I have the patience, for a permanent crate & rotate situation.

I have thought of this...that I should just get adult rescues. Sometimes that feels like the only responsible option, but then I think "Astro is not DA, why can't I figure out a way over this hurtle?" I'm the same though, I'm drawn to breeds that always turn out to be DA. I like the scrappy, physical, often guardy type, and that tends to mean questionable play ability with others.

If I could just fall in love with a **** retriever or spaniel breed or something, or even something that can be a little snarky with other dogs but not terribly likely to throw down the gauntlet completely, so much anguish could be resolved. Alas, I like my terriers, working breeds, and weirdos

Edit: Sizzledog, I thought of you when I made this thread. Every time I see a Dobe owner with multiple dogs, I think I should just get over myself and take the plunge.

Part of me is a little sad at the thought of not having a house full of boy-dogs, because I do prefer boys a bit, and Astro is (so far) still 100% fine with other males. But that's not a risk I'm personally willing to take with some of the breeds I like, the Bull Terrier and the Dobe especially; I'm too much of a worrier and Astro is too much of a pest.

I did find a Pei breeder who breeds unusually friendly Pei, to everything from small children to other dogs. Intact males who run with other intact males and don't make a peep, that sort of thing. She outright admits she bends the standard a bit, because it calls for an aloof, snobby dog and she likes her Pei to be sunnier (still not Golden Retrievers, but more easygoing than some Pei are), and that makes me less nervous. Maybe I just need to focus in on LINES of breeds that I like, more than the breeds?

 

[meepitsmeagan]

Go meet the lines you are looking at and the breeds you are interested in. You will know when you've found it.

I know. So helpful.

 

[SizzleDog]

Edit: Sizzledog, I thought of you when I made this thread. Every time I see a Dobe owner with multiple dogs, I think I should just get over myself and take the plunge.

Part of me is a little sad at the thought of not having a house full of boy-dogs, because I do prefer boys a bit, and Astro is (so far) still 100% fine with other males. But that's not a risk I'm personally willing to take with some of the breeds I like, the Bull Terrier and the Dobe especially; I'm too much of a worrier and Astro is too much of a pest.

I think it depends on what other breed you're pairing the dog with. Dobermans are tough, because while another male dog might be 100% ok with males, a male dobe will probably still see that male as a problem. (Oddly enough, non-SSDA male dobes are more common in the BYB populations. That's not to say one should go to a BYB though, since Dobermans are already not a healthy breed and BYBs aren't doing anything to improve that.)

While my girls are fine with each other, I wouldn't be comfortable bringing in a breed that's got a history of female SSDA.

PS - most dobe breeders keep multiple females with no issues. However, it's uncommon to see any dobe breeders that keep multiple males. Heck, that's the ONLY reason why I have Stark.

 

[Toller_08]

Because I own a breed prone to SSDA, this is a huge consideration when I bring home another dog. As Sizzle said, fortunately female Dobermans are less risky as far as SSDA goes, so that's a big part of why I have three females and one male. Not only do I prefer females anyway, but there is no way I'd risk bringing another male home with Ripley. That's a deal breaker. There is a chance he'd be fine with another male of the right temperament, but it's not a chance I'd be willing to take. And even with Keira, her breeder placed her with us because she was less bitchy and full of attitude even as a baby than her sisters were, but I am still very careful when I bring another female home. Keira is not SSDA, but there are certain tempered girls that she does NOT tolerate well (lots of posturing, growling, controlling). So it's about finding not only the dog suitable for me, but also the right dog suitable for my current dogs... which I'd do anyway, regardless of breed. Even Dance, who is not a Doberman, can be quite bitchy and ridiculous with other dogs in general (not always females). Way more so than Keira.


When I was looking for another dog before I got Journey I knew that I wanted a hopefully dog and people friendly dog, something go with the flow, active, intelligent, easily trainable, medium sized, versatile and very people oriented. So I looked for those traits. I knew what I didn't want as well; big chance for dog aggression or reactivity, decent chance of people shyness or reactivity, anything over 50lbs. But by looking at the traits I did want, and finding a breed and/or breeder that produced dogs with the traits I did want, it was fairly easy to essentially avoid the traits I definitely did not want. There is always a risk, as with anything, but the risk is lessened when you do a good amount of looking and research I think.

But anyway, I don't think there is really a black and white answer. I think you just have to weigh all of the pros and cons and go with your head and your gut as to what you feel you want to bring home. Only you know what your deal breaker would be. I know mine is dog aggression - I will not live a crate and rotate lifestyle. So if I loved everything about a certain breed, but there was a very, very high risk for dog aggression, I'd forego that breed and find another.

 

[Moth]

Well we got a female when we got Menchi because we had Watson and basenjis can be SSA. However, there are several basenji folk I know that have more than one B of the same sex and it works out okay.

These things are never written in stone.

Menchi for example is not DA at all. She prefers everyone to just get along and follows a policy of conflict avoidance. She amazes Watson's breeder all the time with how mellow she is when we go hiking and she takes the antics of some of the breeder's basenjis in stride.

Watson is an example of a basenji that did not get the memo about being DA either. He loves other dogs...as long as he is not on leash...he is leash reactive.

 

[crazedACD]

This might turn into a ramble..

So, obviously I added a female ACD to the mix last fall. I currently live with my mother... I have my own three dogs, she had three and added a Collie female at the same time. I was well aware of the potential for DA/SSA/Inter-household aggression and reactivity in ACDs.

My male is selectively SSA, he doesn't get along with one other male in the house. It isn't bad, but I don't have them together because a fight can trigger very quickly (doorbell ringing, for example). And the fights went from squabbles to knock-down drag out furniture breaking bloody fights.

I don't know if it was the smartest thing I've ever done, to add the female ACD. If I knew what I know now, I might have made a different decision. I haven't said anything on the forum, but Fiona and Shelby (Mom's Collie) are done. They can't be together, they hate each other, and Fiona wants to eat her. She actively aggresses when they pass by each other. This started one random evening, continued the next day, and still continues. I'm not going to say it was unpredictable, as Fiona defers to the other dogs, but never did to Shelby. Now, it is extremely possible (and I'm thinking likely) it is "sibling bitch" rivalry. And it's OK because the household is a bit split anyway, it's not too much effort to keep them apart, and I am hell bent on moving by the end of the year.

I am doing my best to minimize conflict between her and my personal dogs. She seems fine with them, there was a little resource guarding in the beginning that has resolved. I don't let Fiona pester or pick on them, she gets time outs, I have an ex-pen I can stretch across the room and give them space if she won't settle. I'm not tolerating any crap, yknow?

BUT, if a point comes where she starts actively aggressing towards my other dogs...then she can't continue living with me. When it comes down to it, I can live with a dog that doesn't do the activities I want to do. I can live with a crazy-hyper-destructo dog. I can live with a dog that doesn't have a temperament I prefer, that cannot be off leash-I can live with MOST dogs. I cannot live with a dog that will hurt my other dogs. That is one thing I cannot live with. Crate and rotate is an option, yes, but I'm not big on that as a permanent solution, for myself and my situation.

So, was it fair to everyone involved to get a dog that has the potential not to live well with other dogs? Probably not. I probably would have been better getting a spaniel or whatever else I was looking at. And you know, I probably would have been just as happy. I did it though, I'm living with it, and I am very happy with her. I love her, I have a lot of fun with her, she is great. As of right now everything looks okay and I have no problems with her and my dogs. But I'm well aware of the potential as she matures further.

 

[kady05]

Maybe I just need to focus in on LINES of breeds that I like, more than the breeds?

Yup, this is one thing I'd definitely consider.

There's a reason I have Amstaffs, for example, as they tend to be less DA than say, ADBA type APBT's. Granted, there are plenty of DA/DS Amstaffs, but it's less common. Both Sako & Barrett's breeders have multiple same-sexed (and intact) dogs and they all live together just fine. That's one of the reasons I chose them for my dogs, because I wanted a higher chance of a dog friendly dog.

 

[*blackrose]

Maybe I just need to focus in on LINES of breeds that I like, more than the breeds?

This is definitely part of it.

I agree with what everyone is saying, that is really depends on the BREED you're looking at for the majority of the traits. Don't get a Husky if you want a 100% reliable off leash dog. Don't get a Labrador if you don't like shedding. Don't get a Mastiff if you can't stand drool. But regarding other things...really look at the breeder, their dogs, and their lines.

When I was looking for NextDog, there were a few things I knew I did NOT want to deal with. Interhouse aggression towards any of my animals (dog and pocket pet alike) and a dog that was anxious/nervous/fearful/aggressive. I wanted a sound dog that was capable of being around a family.

Chesapeakes aren't known for amazing, go-with-the-flow temperaments. When my vet (and sporting dog enthusiast) found out I wanted a Chessie, she basically said I was nuts, because "all Chessies are insane". She hadn't ever dealt with a Chessie that didn't have some hang up about something. When I was looking at a few different breeders in my area, it was common to see them rehoming an adult with the stipulations of "gun shy", "only dog in household", "not good with children", "prefer a woman owner", etc., etc. (Needless to say, I stayed far away from those breeders.)

Abrams' breeder focused heavily on temperament and socialization, and although Abrams isn't without his flaws (he spooks rather easily, although he recovers quickly), he is exactly what I was looking for in the stability department. Granted, I also did a lot of desensitizing when he was a pup, but I had an awesome base to start with. I am so happy that I have the dog I wanted, and I'm stoked that he is going to be the dog that our FutureFamily will be growing up with.

 

[PWCorgi]

I am hoping that Megan, SpringerLover, may be able to weigh in on some of what you are talking about Springer-wise, as she does have a Springer that does not like other dogs! I will direct her to this thread if she wants to respond

As for me.... NextDog will be mainly based on Siri. Because Siri is a terrier bitch, who can be a bully, and who does not take corrections from other dogs. She is also a resource guarder, as is Frodo. The difference is that Frodo is lots of noise and show, and Siri is very serious. We put bullying rules into place, and it has worked really well to curb her bullying, which is great. We are quite good at management when it comes to the resource guarding, for the most part. I am using the skills (not that I have many in this arena!) that I have to work on their resource guarding, but Ryan and I have also been talking about bringing in a professional as well.

So, essentially I said that to say this: When Frodo passes away, I may or may not get another dog. I think that Siri really does genuinely like having another dog around. She LOVES playing with Frodo (and pretty much all other dogs), and that's all they would do if she had her way And I think she would love having a dog that would cuddle with her. But if I don't feel confident in my ability to maintain a harmonious household, then I won't. I would adore a Borzoi (everyone on my FB feed knows that :rofl1 but I would never bring such a size difference into the house with Siri, just in case. She is 10 pounds, it wouldn't take much for a larger dog to hurt her badly. If/when I decide to add another dog, I will probably end up fostering until the right fit comes along for both myself and for Siri.

I wouldn't do the terrier/herder mix again, too much sharpness in one household for me. I think something like terrier/retriever or terrier/spaniel would be a much more seamless match.

But at any rate, NextDog is many many years off either way

And for the record: If I knew then what I know now, would I have still have gotten Siri? YES! A million times yes. She is absolutely my favorite little creature in the whole world, and I would not trade her for anything.

 

[Oko]

I wouldn't do the terrier/herder mix again, too much sharpness in one household for me. I think something like terrier/retriever or terrier/spaniel would be a much more seamless match.

But at any rate, NextDog is many many years off either way

And for the record: If I knew then what I know now, would I have still have gotten Siri? YES! A million times yes. She is absolutely my favorite little creature in the whole world, and I would not trade her for anything.

Darn

Anyhow, when I get my next dog in the far off beautiful future, I have several breeds I'm looking at, but I think I know what I want next. As of now (which is eight months old, so a lot might change!), for all my calling Feist 'Queen Bitch', she is very reasonable and nice to lady dogs, and has yet to do any serious resource guarding in any way. I'm hoping she'll continue to be polite and appropriate around other females, and I can get another girl because I really, really like girl dogs. We will see!

As for the Wesley/Feist dynamic, I'm not sure if I wrote on here that they were going through a rough patch. Anyhow, they're friends again which is nice, they love playing in the yard and the goal is for them to not interact in the house, because it ends up being a game of biteyface. The answer to all their relationship problems was no more biteyface, because Feist is an evil little troll when she plays wrestle games and bites you on the butt and between your toes and whatnot. She's fine as long as she's in motion.

 

[PWCorgi]

As for the Wesley/Feist dynamic, I'm not sure if I wrote on here that they were going through a rough patch. Anyhow, they're friends again which is nice, they love playing in the yard and the goal is for them to not interact in the house, because it ends up being a game of biteyface. The answer to all their relationship problems was no more biteyface, because Feist is an evil little troll when she plays wrestle games and bites you on the butt and between your toes and whatnot. She's fine as long as she's in motion.

Hahaha, I remember when Siri and Zip Tie were puppies, Siri ran circles around him, biting his toes and his tail and his man bits. He got so mad!

 

[Oko]

Hahaha, I remember when Siri and Zip Tie were puppies, Siri ran circles around him, biting his toes and his tail and his man bits. He got so mad!

I knew there had to be a reason I liked Siri so much. :rofl1:

 

[SpringerLover]

I own three springers. All are purebred, all have traceable ancestry. None can really be considered related. Two have my definition of correct temperament. One does not.

Buzz and Gabby have the temperament I think of when I think "Springer." They are both incredibly dog social and read other dogs really well. I've owned Buzz since he was 8 weeks old, but I've only had Gabby less than a year. In that time, neither has ever given me an indication of aggression toward another dog. That doesn't mean they don't correct other dogs, because both will. But it is appropriate, it's never over the top, and they both use the least amount of "force" necessary to get the message across. They just read other dogs so incredibly well.

Bailey resource guards her space, valuables, and occasionally people. She only guards from other animals, and has never guarded from people. She also has terrible dog/dog skills. It's hard for me to talk about her objectively because I really, really adore her. She is an absolutely fabulous dog in so, so, so many ways. And embodies a Springer in SO many ways. Except in her interactions with other dogs. And because of that, she has to live as an only dog with my mom. It's a really great situation, except it's abundantly clear that I am her chosen person. She lives with my mom mostly because she has put holes in other animals. Luckily none of them were life threatening, and she'd REALLY just rather the other animal listened when she told them to stop. Both times she was snarking as a result of resource guarding and the other animal was literally just in the way. When she could hear and the other animals could hear and see, I was comfortable managing our lives together. When both she and Buzz went deaf, and we basically lived in a small bedroom together, that's when I got serious about changing our living situation. Complicating matters is that she also has separation anxiety. It has definitely gotten worse as she's gotten older (and night times are the hardest for her), but it's always been present, it was just a lot more manageable when she was younger.

That being said, I will likely always own ESS. Either in a foster-then-adopt situation, or buying from one of the very select few breeders I trust. Do keep in mind that there are three very distinct "types" of ESS within the breed and all are going to be different as a result. Buzz is from English (import) lines. His pedigree has been watered down a little in the US (by BYBs), but that's the base of him. Bailey is about 90% American show line. I will never, ever, buy an American show line ESS again. I just can't, after all the research I've done and everything I've learned. Gabby is a mishmash of American field trial dogs and some English dogs (watered down significantly by BYBs).

I'd be more than happy to talk to you via PM if you want. I said a lot here, but tried to be somewhat careful in what I said...

I really, truly, adore Bailey and wish that she could live with me happily and safely. Luckily for both of us, there is another option that keeps everyone mostly happy, but more importantly, everyone is safe.

 

[SpringerLover]

And for the record: If I knew then what I know now, would I have still have gotten Siri? YES! A million times yes.

This is the "problem" I have with Bailey as well. I wouldn't have learned even half of what I know about dogs without her. I wouldn't be so involved in the breed if it wasn't for her. But I adore her, for who she is (it just may have taken me longer to appreciate Bailey).

 

[Finkie_Mom]

Honestly, I can say that I will never own 2 males again. I knew it was a bit of a risk keeping Jari since the males in this breed can have SSA, but I also knew that I had a decent shot at things being fine between him and Pen since I had Jari from such a young age. As it was, Jari had been totally appropriate through this whole thing and even started avoiding Pen - it's Pen that decided that things were not OK for whatever reason. And that's OK. It's not a slight against Pen, it's just how things are.

The girls have their squabbles, sure, but nothing ridiculous and nothing that lasts for more than maybe 5 seconds. And it's usually something like Bubbles trying to play with Kimma while Kimma is sleeping LOL. Whereas Pen has decided that Jari must probably not exist anymore, thank you very much.

However, I am VERY lucky in that my in-laws adore Pentti and have been bugging me to just let them "officially" keep him. He's been at their place for a couple of weeks now, and seems so happy. No more crate/rotate for him, and heck, no more crate in general! He just hangs out all day with them both and their female Finkie, who really likes him and gets him to do zoomies on a regular basis.

So in short, yes, I have always considered breed traits when adding new dogs, and I will continue to do so. Probably with more diligence now that I have dealt with SSA in my house and have realized that my lifestyle does not lend itself to a crate/rotate situation.