Breeder Questions. How long is a good health guarantee? plus MORE. HELP PLEASE

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Fran101, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    as some of you know, I've been looking for the right breeder to get a Papillon. Ive just been looking at websites and I found a website that I really liked so I emailed and found out a couple things that im not sure about.. Ive never purchased a dog from a breeder so I figured i would get some opinions..

    -they have a 6 month health guarantee against life threatening hereditary aliments : Is that normal? good? ive always seen 1 year, never 6 months. is 6 months really enough for issues to pop up?

    - im going to quote how they said this "Companion prices are 1000-1600 with quality extra tiny ones going as high as 1800" .. something about that threw me off. maybe the wording? is it just me?

    - They only accept Cash.. normal?

    if anyone would like to know the website of the breeder, please PM me.
     
  2. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    A good one is at least 5 years.. a great one is lifetime.
     
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    thats what I thought. I mean, do any issues really show up in 6 months??

    Its so weird because from the look of the website, they looked spectacular.. :( kind of a let down
     
  4. PoodleMommy

    PoodleMommy Yorkie Love

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    Some issues will show up but not all will.

    I will say I see ALOT of breeders who only give a one year guarantee... but that doesnt mean its right... it is what it is.

    Also, a good breeder should NOT be selling "tiny" ones for more. Actually good breeders are careful about who the smaller ones in a litter go to because they can be more fragile, have more issues. Although I dont know how small "tiny" is in a papillon. Are we talking, 5 pounds or less?

    The cash thing doesnt really put up any flags though... I dont know any breeders who take credit cards and this breeder probably got burned with a personal check. Or if they wont take bank checks, money orders, they are probably trying to circumvent taxes which is a little shady.
     
  5. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I'm torn on this one . To me no breeder knows what may be down the road .
     
  6. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    I don't like the extra tiny ones being sold at a premium price. That's where the problems start when they glorify the ones that are smaller than they should be. :mad:
     
  7. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    back to the drawing board. just goes to show the perfect website does NOT mean the perfect breeder
     
  8. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Hmm, that's weird about the tiny ones. I would think the undersized dogs would go for the same as other pet quality puppies.
     
  9. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    especially for paps. i see more sporting paps than i do purse dogs
     
  10. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    A lot of breeders give a one year.......Run away.
    Two year contract still isn't worth the paper it is printed other than to use it for TP.

    5 Year is getting good but not great because many issues often hit after 5 yrs.

    Life Time is Idea, good luck finding that they are hard to find.
     
  11. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    2 year would be my ABSOLUTE minimum, and even thats a crappy health warentee...most health issues dont show up untill 2yrs or older...

    5 yrs would be ok and probably about as good as many breeders will give.

    life time is rare.

    the thing i would stear away from the most on this one though is the fact there charging so much for a PET dog and MORE for "tiny" ones...
    a good breeder will charge the same or less for a runt, but their screening SHOULD be stricter.
    paps are small as is but when your getting into "tiny" and charging almost $2000 for the privledge? that screams BYB.

    mabe lauralins breeder for her families paps can steer you in the right direction?
     
  12. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Hmm, looking back at one of my dog's contract, some things are 2 years and some are 5 years.

    Only accept cash? Run like the wind.
     
  13. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I don't agree with this, I do believe that too many breeders are taking too many risks when they KNOW there are genetic problems within their breed. Many of them, in pursuit of Titles and CH, waive those risks. Now if they were held accountable for what they produce for nothing less than half the years that a given dog should live for, they would probably be more careful, especially if it was going to it them in the pocket book.

    In my opinion a 2 yr or less contract ONLY protects the breeder, it doesn't protect the dog, the breed and certainly not the new owner.

    I have heard breeders say such things as...........'breed them early BEFORE anything shows up'.

    'It's not my responsiblity to inform people of the genetic issues, they need to do that research for themselves'. Yeah that works as long as the effected dogs (often siblings/sires/dams etc) have all their testing recorded AND up to date. Funny how those dogs just kinda disappear.

    Or the breeder when in asked about the high risk of breeding one dog with the loaded pedigree for eye problems, just shrugged their shoulders.

    Those examples are NOT byb's.

    So no a breeder can't know what is always in the future and they may get some surprises. And yes the more you breed and the higher numbers of breeding dogs you have the risks certainly goes up........but having said that too many are still too careless for my liking.

    Years ago, there was no genetic testing, but those days are long gone and there is no excuses these days for breeders to not do the testing and to be honest about it for the better of their breed.
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I sent her a pm already with all the breeders I can think of. The problem is I haven't really looked into too many others past initial inspection.

    Have you started looking at any of the ones in Florida I sent you? I know some don't have websites but I've heard some really good things about them. My area has a lot less breeders than either of the coasts.
     
  15. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Ive emailed the ones in florida :) still waiting for a response, they must be really busy though. But im starting to warm up to the idea of them not having a website lol I can ask all the questions I want

    Oh and the list with breeders in each state helped also, i had no idea that many people bred paps! lol they really must be like potato chips.. :p
     
  16. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    They are. That list is a god place to start but not all breeders are equal quality on there. Some breeders can also refer you to people off the list but may be active in local clubs and such.
     
  17. Breeders are not *od. No matter how careful you are, sometimes things will happen. I do not think it is reasonable to hold breeders responsible for thing that happen after about 3 years of age. Most health testing is done by 2 years of age. (hips elbows eyes heart, patellas, Legg Perthe, etc.).

    While as a breeder I really want all my puppy people to be satisfied, things that happen or go wrong after age 3 and after screening has been done to ensure general health honestly I don't feel I can be responsible for legally or monetarily.

    Having said that there are always circumstances that defy whatever "rules" you as a breeder have set up for yourself and your buyers. If I had a buyer who ran into a terrible circumstance (early cancer death, to name one) I would want to offer them another puppy should I have one available and should they want one.

    I do not think, however, that a 6 month guarantee is adequate.
     
  18. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    thats what im looking for. A breeder that CARES about the puppy/dog i have, asks questions, wants to know how the dog is doing, and would CARE! finding a breeder like that is proving to be rather difficult..

    Ive done applications, answered each question throughly and received nothing more than ---- X ------ are expecting pup in may. pets are $ and show potentials are $$
    no questions for me WHAT SO EVER.
     
  19. Keep looking, Fran. You will find the right one, someone that will be your friend and your mentor as well as your breeder. They are out there, but hard to find sometimes.

    Good luck!
     
  20. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    sooo red.. you wanna start breeding papillons?? lol

    rotties..papillons.. tomatoe tomahto lol

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