Breeder ? breed before interest or after

[planet molosser]

I am often asked to assit breeders in selling litters after they get stuck.

Last nite call from WA a backyard breeder who wanted a dog from me.
Who I declined due to pure impatience to get a dog now and i mean now.
This was in Jan of 07 and less than a year after importing a breeding pair wa la pups.

He says hi do you have pups left from your litter? I reply NO
His reply is do you know of anyone interested?
I explain I can not assit in selling non proven dogs as per our club rules.
But what happens when they wind up in wrong homes?
Then he informs me of his "friend" had a accident litter has 10 pups now

I tell them like I tell others I can help you adopt but not sell.
Even breeders who show and test dogs they all seem to get STUCK with litters assuming buyers will come out from the woodwork, once a add is placed and pups arrive.

Im sad they all think im sold out because of breeding a rare breed and dont take into conisidertion the 11 years and over 200,000 ive invested.

Is it normal in other non rare breed to breed without deps or applications for puppies?

Sorry for the rant but these poorly bred dogs often cost the breed bad PR and sales . Everyone remembers a bad bred dog and often label the breed BAD.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

NO. I would NEVER make a breeding without at least 4 people waiting. Puppies deserve their own homes with their own people and families as soon as possible. I like to have puppies placed except what I am keeping by 12 weeks of age.

I agree with you on the referrals.

 

[showpug]

I am not a long term experienced breeder, but I can add that I bred my litter after I had approved applications and a waiting list. I am fairly lucky as with my breed, pugs don't generally have huge litters. With my plans to always keep a puppy I don't have to have a long list. My homes that have my pups now waited from before conception which proved to me how serious they were about waiting for the right pup - something I want to see in future buyers as well.

If I am lucky enough and blessed with a second litter, I do have a waiting list forming now.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Well I can certainly say I do NOT breed "because folks are interested" I breed for my needs and my programme within the breed, towards my ideal and goals within the breed. To take steps forward hopefully each time and learn more about my dogs lines and what they are capable of producing each time.

So no, I do not wait til I have a stack of deposit checks to breed a litter because JQP isn't my first concern when I decide to breed. I do advertise when I have DONE a breeding or when one is planned...and from then on interest lists are kept.

I don't take deposits until there are puppies...and in point of fact until I know there are pet puppies....so not before 6-7 WEEKS OLD. Also not until I have MET those on my interest lists and they've met my hounds and the pups and are sure this is what they and I both want to do.

I have up to now..never had a problem placing pups this way. It's typical in my breed to keep pup's past 8 weeks...into 3-4 months even...to "run them on" and see if what you see is what it really is. Then you place pups that aren't going to be shown...the obvious pet pups do go around 8-10 weeks tho.

I have previous buyers now that are great resources for pet homes, and networking with other breeders is also a great help. I have no qualms about advertising tho...and have found some truly wonderful homes that way too.

Since my breed is small, litter sizes aren't typicall big, and they're quite gregarious...and tend to retain a puppy like charm for YEARS...placing pups is less a hurry or worry, really. It gets done when it gets done...otherwise I just keep them and wait til the right situation comes along.

 

[planet molosser]

Thanks for answers computer kicked me off had to reboot ..

I think to a degree what ever WORKS in style is what matters.
My breed is HUGE thus keeping 1,000 pounds of animals not worthyor stud males is simply crazy..

Our litters range from 4-9 pups( others litters 11) .
I love small litters... If I had 4-6 pups 2x a year I would never need to advertise again.

But we need to prepare for the worst, I personally keep the best females picks before i sent a female out. However in a working situation i must sell all pick males in co ownership so I dont have too many intact dogs working.
Currently have 3 intact males and 2 neutered pets ( rebounds)

Im going on 4th generation and have only 2 breeding females ( 2nd generation) 2 prospects ( 3rd) 2 retired (1st) + plus 3 studs and 3 pets..
So I have to breed carefully and not get over run with dogs.
personally i need room for rebounds which are BOUND to happen.

So I dont know how breeders of these BIG breeds without a commercial kennel operation and full time staff can assume buyers will line up.
I like to get to know a buyer and them waiting helps me allot they learn more the longer they wait.

Oh well the rescues are going to tripled next year from these litters and if I complain I am told " politics competition yayayayay"
But does anyone care about the dogs? as you guys have pointed out.

Personally believe if you dont have enough room money and time to take back, rehome or pts every dog you bred if need be why breed?

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Oh yes if I had say...Akitas my methods would doubtless be different LOL!

 

[melissa2007]

Personally believe if you dont have enough room money and time to take back, rehome or pts every dog you bred if need be why breed?

Great Question and great thread, that quote is what every want to be breeder or even breed already should concider those things.
You said it with that quote

 

[planet molosser]

Yes I think in the big guardian breeds the buyers education is on safety and how to stop accidents. Where toy dogs it would be more how to teach potty training, obedience more normal dog stuff..

 

[planet molosser]

Melissa in some parts of europe they have little rescues cause clubs require owners breeder to chip and id all pups.

Which I do and wish was kinda a club requirements

 

[RD]

I wouldn't breed without at least a few dedicated "dog people" committed to buying a pup from that litter. But, at the same time, I wouldn't breed just because a lot of people are asking for a pup from my dog. I've tossed around the idea of breeding Eve, but it's because I like this bitch so much, not because I want to make money (I'd probably lose thousands) or because I want the experience. I like her lines and am interested in continuing them, and as an individual I think Eve has a ton to contribute to the well-being of the working border collie. If I couldn't ensure that her puppies would be placed in homes that would allow them to reach their potential, I'm not sure what I'd do, to be honest. (All the unsure answers are precisely why I'm not sure if I should breed.)

But no, don't breed just because people want puppies out of your dog. My dad is in that boat, he thinks he wants to breed Dakota because about 15 of our friends love him and want a puppy out of him. (I figure if puppies ever hit the ground, only 5 or so will actually be able to provide a suitable home for a border collie) But he wouldn't be breeding for the breed or for his own interest in the line, he'd be breeding to give puppies to our friends. To me (health testing and performance aside) that's not much different than BYBing just to sell puppies to strangers.

 

[showpug]

I agree with what the others have said. I too, would NEVER breed just because other people wanted puppies. I breed for myself first. If others are interested then that is just icing on the cake. I guess that is why I was so offended when family members and some friends acted shocked when I was going to keep a puppy from my litter. Ummm...why on earth would I show and finish my dog, get her health clearances and spend a small fortune to produce a litter and NOT keep a puppy for myself???:yikes: This breeding was all about ME and MY goals...not about making a buck! But, with that said, I think it's only responsible to be sure before you breed that the puppies you don't keep will have great homes.

 

[planet molosser]

Great posts--- dont you love when buyers offer u double the asking price for your pick and think any amount of money would let you part with you next generation?..

 

[OutlineACDs]

I breed for me. I bred my bitch to get my next generation. She had 4 puppies by c-section. I kept one. This was my first, and so far, only litter. I have been in my breed for going on 7 years. Truthfully, I didn't have a waiting list. The stud dog owner agreed to help me sell puppies. If it hadn't have been for her, I probably would have had a hard time selling any. No one understands why I was asking more that $50 dollars for a 'farm dog'. No one understood why I didn't dock their tails.

I know that a lot of people will tell you that a good breeder should have a waiting list. This is all well and good, but like I said, I breed for me. I ended up spaying my bitch for health reasons, and while I may show the pup I kept, she will never be bred. In another 3 years or so I will buy another bitch from another breeder. So it will be a minimum of 5 years before I have another litter. I don't think that I will have a waiting list then either.

 

[planet molosser]

I sold the 5 pups out of the first litter of another kennel- so I understand that - u had a mentor helping you. However for me it was the biggest mistake of my life.
Because I sold 5 pups i was informed of the genetic issues in that litter.
And that the breeder never kept in touch with the buyers..

Sounds like you were on the right path - wish I had a good mentor..

 

[OutlineACDs]

Two of the puppies from that litter I do keep up with. They know of the health problems that have popped up and were reminded that I would take them back, no questions asked. The third pup, was the stud fee puppy. She sold him as a pet with her contract etc, so I don't keep up with him. If those owners ever decided they didn't want him I would tell the stud dog owner that she could send him to me to try to rehome.

 

[planet molosser]

Nice not to be alone in this area- some said im crazy to care about pups I did not breed and when they produced grandkids I was there to assist....

 

[HarleyD]

I would say that depending on the size of the breed depends on how many qualified people you need to have lined up. If you only have 3 people that want your breed and have 6 or more pups you are stuck with the rest unless you can find good homes for them in a matter of 10 weeks. It's always safer to have MORE people interested and have less pups.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Personally I feel that breeding should be a pretty equal consideration - breeding for yourself, yes, but also breeding for others. I think you should want a pup from any litter you breed (even if you don't actually KEEP a pup) because the litter should be of a high enough quality that you would want to keep one. But if there's a demand for your breed and you have good breeding stock, then breeding in order to fulfill a demand is not unethical.

It's a good thing that some breeders breed for others, or many of us wouldn't have the puppies we want. If you've got a list of good, qualified buyers that you feel would make excellent homes, and you've got healthy, certified, proven dogs, then why not breed in order to fulfill the need? If good breeders won't do that, then it leaves a demand open that is filled by bad breeders - and then the good breeders sit back and howl about how the bad breeders shouldn't breed.

I'd rather see breeders breed and sell their pups to loving people who make the pup part of their family, then to keep another pup that sits out in a concrete kennel run most of its life.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[planet molosser]

I'd rather see breeders breed and sell their pups to loving people who make the pup part of their family, then to keep another pup that sits out in a concrete kennel run most of its life.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Agree I know of so many who keep so many pups with no work in socialization and then wonder why no one wants them as JRs that they dont want to keep for breeding.

ID rather place my pick males in homes have someone assit me with the puppy raising and worse case home does not work out they come home.

 

[planet molosser]

Rant

Remember the guy I posted about? in this thread.
Well he found the miller backyard breeder Molosser site and is marketing the pups that he did not prepare for on that site.

It makes me SICK.

Breeding 1 year old dogs and then putting pics up of the grandparents who are champions and claiming "champion bloodlines".

No testing NO show No work babies breeding babies.

I just hope websites that market backyard breed dogs one day are held accountable.........

And no one is allowed to say BOO on that site since it is founded on backyard breeders.

Birds of a feather flock together.