blue, an answer to your question to puppydog

[Specsy]

Hi blue!

Being South African too, I can answer this question about "firing" the maid. Here in South Africa, being a maid, is an actual job. You sign a contract, pay minimum wage, pension fund, unemployment fund, the entire package! So by saying it would be illegal to tell the maid not to come in for the next few weeks would in fact be illegal. It would be illegal because you are basically laying them off their job without any pay or valid reason. It is also illegal to just fire your maid unless you have valid reasons etc. It is due to labour laws and also union what nots in our country. Hope this answers your question?

 

[Beanie]

But if you don't have the money to afford to pay somebody's wages, isn't that a valid reason? Everybody that was laid off where I work was laid off for that reason. The company was no longer making sales to afford their operation costs and to pay the employees so some people had their jobs cut so the entire company wouldn't go bankrupt.


ETA: Not trying to be snarky, just honestly curious. Letting employees go so a company doesn't go bankrupt is normal modus operandi here, is that not how it works in SA?

 

[milos_mommy]

Beanie, I imagine that's a valid reason, but I don't think you can just tell the maid "oh we have no work and can't pay you this week"....you probably need to give them a certain amount of notice, unless something drastic happens to suddenly change your financial situation.

Here, if you work a full-time, salaried job, I don't think the boss can just be like "oh, I don't feel like paying you this week we don't need you". Or like paying for anything else after signing a contract...you can't be like "oh, I just don't want to pay my phone bill this month they can shut my phone off"....there are all sorts of cancelation fees and things.

 

[Beanie]

Here we just let everybody go effective immediately - but Illinois is also a right to work state, so that might be why, rather than two weeks notice PS you're fired! We all have contracts, but they really don't mean anything... I'm under no obligation to give a two weeks notice if I want to quit either.

 

[milos_mommy]

NY is the same...you can fire anybody, at any time, without a given reason. It's illegal to fire someone for a medical emergency or discrimination, obviously, but it's pretty dang hard to prove.

But I'm almost positive if someone with a full-time, salaried job is "laid off", they have to be given some kind of severance or something? I really don't know.

 

[Beanie]

Illinois doesn't have any laws about severance packages, so you don't have to be provided one here. It's up to the company since the state doesn't make them give you anything. I think the only companies that really do severance packages are large national companies that have plants or branches here. Like one of my friend's dads worked at a plant for years and they closed the plant branch and offered him a severance package. If he took the package he wouldn't be able to get unemployment though. I don't remember if she told me he took it or not.


this is super interesting, LOL. Work laws in different areas are fascinating to me for some reason...

 

[Specsy]

What milos_mommy said is correct, if you cannot afford to pay the maid ever, you give notice, pay a severance fee and its ok. You can't however say I don't have money this week, no pay, sorry. Its illegal. Exactly the way milos_mommy said.

 

[Beanie]

So if a company (I know in this case we're talking an individual but I'm curious on the grander scale here) doesn't have the money to make payroll, what do they do? For example, there have been restaurants locally that haven't been able to make payroll... and they basically tell a few people they are fired but that they might be able to hire them back if business picks up...

 

[Grab]

Here we just let everybody go effective immediately - but Illinois is also a right to work state, so that might be why, rather than two weeks notice PS you're fired! We all have contracts, but they really don't mean anything... I'm under no obligation to give a two weeks notice if I want to quit either.

I don't think IL is a right to work state?

 

[Beanie]

I don't think IL is a right to work state?

Sorry, you're right - at-will employment is what I mean. Right to work deals with union dues.

 

[milos_mommy]

Beanie...are you sure it's legal for a restaurant to do that to a full-time worker? It's probably a lot different also for salaried/full time workers VS hourly/PT workers. Here, hourly workers can pretty much lose their job for anything, but since a salaried/full-time worker can get unemployment, the government does put some effort into making it not worth just dropping them whenever the company wants.

ETA: I'd like to point out I have absolutely no idea if any of this information is valid, but it's what I always here from employers and the people I know who have been laid off/fired around here.

 

[Beanie]

Yes, it's legal. Your employer can fire you at any time for any reason. It doesn't matter if you are part time, full time, hourly, or salary, and yes you can be a full time employee and still hourly. For that matter, a part time employee can also technically withdraw unemployment too, so long as their part time wages met the unemployment minimum. It doesn't matter if you work in sales or if you have a job in radio with a contract. If you get fired, you're fired.

What exactly are you suggesting would be illegal?

 

[AliciaD]

My former place of employment got sued after they fired a woman. I don't know the exact circumstances, but because the woman was neither "incompetent" nor "insubordinate" her being terminated was wrongdoing and she got a nice settlement.

Leaving out names and details for discretion's sake.

 

[milos_mommy]

Yes, it's legal. Your employer can fire you at any time for any reason. It doesn't matter if you are part time, full time, hourly, or salary, and yes you can be a full time employee and still hourly. For that matter, a part time employee can also technically withdraw unemployment too, so long as their part time wages met the unemployment minimum. It doesn't matter if you work in sales or if you have a job in radio with a contract. If you get fired, you're fired.

What exactly are you suggesting would be illegal?

I'm suggesting it would be illegal say, if someone working a full time job for an extended period of time (let's say 5 years or so) goes into work one day and the company says "oh, we don't want you working here anymore. Go home." Like Alicia said....I'm not exactly sure how or why, but I have heard of companies/small businesses being sued for doing that...especially if the employee has a contract.

 

[blue]

Thank you for the South African perspective Specsy. My original question wasnt about firing, it was giving the maid a week off from their services.

Alaska is an At Will state, meaning an employee or employer can end the working agreement at will without penalty as long as the reason isnt discriminatory. So the notion that you would be penalized for giving an employee a week off because you couldnt afford to pay them is foreign to me.

 

[Specsy]

I understand, but here it is different, you can't just fire people or tell them not to come in without pay etc. There are certain rights they have. I can't go into detail because I don't know all the facts and to be completely honest I am lazy to look it all up. But it is quite similar to what milos_mommy has been saying. Keep in mind that being a maid is an actual job in South Africa. My moms godmother moved house and couldn't take the maid with, she had to give 3months advanced notice to the maid that she would no longer have a job, then she had to pay a severance fee (I am not sure if she HAD to pay a severance fee but I know she gave the maid some money, she didn't make it clear if it was a good service bonus or a severance fee)

 

[Dizzy]

I'd be pretty pissed off if my boss said I couldn't go in because they couldn't pay me .. if you're a casual worker, fair enough, but what I gather a maid isn't...

 

[Kat09Tails]

I'd be pretty pissed off if my boss said I couldn't go in because they couldn't pay me .. if you're a casual worker, fair enough, but what I gather a maid isn't...

Laid off is what it's called. Would you rather do the work then have to sue for your wages?

 

[Dizzy]

Laid off is what it's called. Would you rather do the work then have to sue for your wages?

If a company goes bankrupt, then that's different.

What was suggested was don't bother coming in for a few weeks. Companies make people redundant, but unless you're a casual worker they can't just tell you not to bother coming in that week. If you have a contract, they have to uphold their bits too.

This is UK law.

Being temporarily laid-off work - Directgov Mobile

Hope that works, on my mobile.

 

[96 GTS]

I'm suggesting it would be illegal say, if someone working a full time job for an extended period of time (let's say 5 years or so) goes into work one day and the company says "oh, we don't want you working here anymore. Go home." Like Alicia said....I'm not exactly sure how or why, but I have heard of companies/small businesses being sued for doing that...especially if the employee has a contract.

Actually that's perfectly legal. It doesn't matter if you're a fresh hire or have worked somewhere 40 years. It doesn't matter if you make $15,000 a year or $150,000 a year. If you live in an at-will employment state, either party can terminate employment at any time for any reason with no advance notice. There's no reason you have to put in a two week notice other than it's good form, and it's never good to burn bridges. Employers almost never will though, that's just how it works. Obviously labor laws differ greatly country to country, even state to state.