Black Russian Terriers...

[Lyss90]

Ive just been doing alittle more research on breeds and stumbled across black russian terriers.. omg! Ive heard of them but never really thought to look into them, they sound like an awesome dog, I think one would be a great fit from what Ive read so far.. anybody ever meet one? know anymore about them? they seem pretty rare, I googled them and cant seem to find many breeders in the states... anybody know of any?
Im suddenly very excited cause I think i fount the perfect dog EEEK! lol.
Links would be great

 

[JennSLK]

Google isnt the greatest tool for finding breeders. Try googling the American Club or Canadian club and going from there.

 

[Kat09Tails]

BRTs are a fairly new influx into the USA since the 80's. I would expect at this point they will remain rare within the country because honestly, not many people realistically want a dog like a BRT.

The couple I have met were serious dogs from recent military and prison lines (as in actively working those jobs in the last decade). These were some really no nonsense dogs where giant schnauzers I had met in the past were all goofballs for the most part without near the attitude of these guys.

Be very very aware of what you're getting into. These are not dog park dogs or dogs who will usually warmly welcome people into your home.

 

[pitbullpony]

If you go with the show-lines; you can get a watered down version. They are CKC/UKC/AKC registered, so there will be people out there breeding them.

We have a number of breeders up here in Canada. They are stunning dogs; but the ones I've met aren't as intense as I was led to believe.

 

[milos_mommy]

They're not going to be as intense as something like a fila or say, boerboel, but they are definitely not a dog for someone who doesn't have plenty of experience (hands on) working with guardian breeds.

I don't know anything about the OP, but I would definitely talk to as many breeders as possible, meet these dogs at shows or in a work environment, go visit breeders, etc...and consider how many other dogs you've owned/trained and how their temperament compared.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

We got to see one in action (and I don't mean the good kind of action) at a show we were at a couple of years ago. He lunged and bit another handler and was extremely dog aggressive and was dismissed after the first show. I have gotten to know someone who has a male that was in Westminster and I believe their co-owned male won a merit award but like most guardian breeds they aren't for the faint of heart but from the right breeder and with the right owner (not saying you aren't one) I am sure they are a wonderful breed, just make sure you research the heck out of them and if at all possible get out there and see the dogs in person. I think there is a breeder in NJ but if you go on the westminster site and look up the breed I am sure that you can pull some kennel names from there to look into.

 

[Lyss90]

Hmmm. Maybe they're not so great for me, didn't realize there gaurding instinct was so high. They do still sound like a cool dog, but I would like a dog that I can trust in public... Back to the drawing board lol researching breeds has become my new fav hobby lol

 

[Sit Stay]

I met one on the subway once - he just chilled under his owners feet throughout stops, people coming on and leaving, etc. Pretty impressive. She did warn people not to stick hands in his face and not to ruff him up, but he did approach us for a pat with her OK. We talked with her for a bit and he sounded like he was a pretty intense, guardy dog. Come to think of it a young teenage boy ran in the train like his pants were on fire and ended up leaping over the sleeping dog - dog startled awake but didn't react or go for the kid, which was pretty good.

 

[Dekka]

If you go with the show-lines; you can get a watered down version. They are CKC/UKC/AKC registered, so there will be people out there breeding them.

We have a number of breeders up here in Canada. They are stunning dogs; but the ones I've met aren't as intense as I was led to believe.

THIS is exactly what I was going to say. They were showing (maybe not so much any more if they are now CKC reg) Rare Breed club shows and I got to meet quite a few. Not really all that intense, even the ones who had been imported. I thought they were stunning dogs, but not nearly enough 'terrier' for me.

 

[Mina]

... I thought they were stunning dogs, but not nearly enough 'terrier' for me.

There is a very good reason as to why they're "not nearly enough 'terrier' " ... BRT's are not terriers! They're working dogs.
(And yes, the "Terrier" in the name is very misleading.)...

What everyone has said about the BRT is true - to one degree or another. Like most guardian-type or working breeds, there is an enormous range of drives and temperaments...

Mary (BlackShadowCaneCorso) is right about individuals aggressing, even within the show ring. Our boy will often go "on alert" in the ring with particular dogs who he senses are not balanced (and he's never wrong)...

Even with experienced breeders (and I'm not say these "experienced breeders" are "good" breeders), it's very difficult to overcome bad genetics when it comes to temperament; that can be said of any breed, although guardian breeds can be far more intense in this regard.

As opposed to what has been suggested, a "good" BRT is actually very calm and very approachable. There should be absolutely no aggressiveness, whatsoever. There is a huge difference between aggression and protectiveness...

... Not really all that intense, even the ones who had been imported.

A well-balanced, self-assured BRT should not look "intense". When aroused to protect which, I sincerely hope, you'll never witness, their intensity is truly frightening...

When we take our own boy out, which is quite often, the most common word used to describe him is "docile". We have no problem with anyone, of any age, approaching to pet him. None of these people would ever suspect that he is also an alert and fierce protector. This is, ideally, as it should be; however this general calm, self-assuredness is a result of excellent breeding and proper socialization...

As with many breeds, a truly "good" BRT is hard to come by.

As the oft-used saying goes: "This is not a dog for everyone."
But for the right person, this a truly phenomenal breed!!!

Lastly, Lyss, if you would like some actual and accurate, first-hand information on the Black Russian Terrier, feel free to PM me.

 

[milos_mommy]

There is no reason for a BRT who has been properly raised to be aggressive, or "untrustworthy in public"....however, if you don't have very much experience raising or training dogs, and are unwilling/unable to spend a lot of time learning first-hand how to properly do so, then they are probably not the breed for you.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I believe however (correct me if I am wrong), the BRT, has horrific hip ratings. I know some people are working to correct that but it is an issue to consider.

 

[milos_mommy]

The one BRT I knew personally was PTS at I think 10 years because he could no longer walk due to his hips. I wasn't aware the problem was more severe than in other large, HD prone breeds, though.

 

[JennSLK]

There are 1081 entries on the OFA web site. 124 of those have fair or worse hip ratings.

 

[SaraB]

There is no reason for a BRT who has been properly raised to be aggressive, or "untrustworthy in public"....however, if you don't have very much experience raising or training dogs, and are unwilling/unable to spend a lot of time learning first-hand how to properly do so, then they are probably not the breed for you.

Temperament isn't always a product of how a dog is raised. Take my Classic for example; socialized a ton as a puppy, raised the same way as every other dog I've ever had, never had a bad experience with a person and he still turned out to be untrustworthy around strangers. A dog's genetics makes up a lot of their personality, I assume the same can be said about BRT's. Then again, this is the age-old nature vs nurture debate.

 

[Mina]

I actually don't mind reading "the bad press" - even if it isn't quite accurate opcorn: ...

All too often, breeders promote the BRT as being a kind of large, black, non-shedding Golden Retriever, and will sell a puppy to anyone whose cheque doesn't bounce. :wall:

Pulling back by prospective owners to take a second (and 3rd and 4th) look before making the leap, cannot be a bad thing, IMO.

However, as there seems to be no other BRT people here to shed light on the subject:

There is no reason for a BRT who has been properly raised to be aggressive, or "untrustworthy in public"...

You are correct, m/m. A well-bred, well-socialized and decently trained BRT is rock solid in public. However, it should be noted that BRT's require extensive socialization - much more so than most breeds, and more so even than many other guardian type breeds.

Temperament isn't always a product of how a dog is raised...
A dog's genetics makes up a lot of their personality, I assume the same can be said about BRT's.

You, too, are correct, Sara. A BRT with "bad genetics" as far as temperament is concerned, even with extensive socialization and exhaustive training, may never be totally trustworthy in public. And although it's possible to "ruin" an otherwise "good dog" with inadequate socialization, it's often not possible to "fix" a temperamentally unsound dog, or one which is simply "overly sharp".

 

[milos_mommy]

Sara is absolutely right...my original reply was a bit wordier but didn't go through, and unfortunately when retyping it I condensed it. It originally start off saying "There is no reason for a healthy, sound BRT...."

You can, of course, increased your odds of owning a mentally sound dog by finding a good breeder who health tests and titles their dogs, and meeting the dog's relatives, or adopting a dog that has had a reliable behavioral evaluation or whom has been in foster care long enough for it's temperament to be evaluated

 

[Mina]

It seems that the OP, after reading a few postings here, has lost interest in BRT's.
If so, this is probably a very good thing for all concerned.

... You can, of course, increased your odds of owning a mentally sound dog by finding a good breeder who health tests and titles their dogs, and meeting the dog's relatives ...

You're absolutely right, m.mommy ...
You can increase your odds, by doing all the right things,
but oftentimes, that increase is simply not enough.

Perhaps I'm showing my age,
but one thing which really bothers in this time of
instant access to (mis?)information at the push of a button,
is that a prospective owner can do "all the right things",
and still get scr-wed big time...

Sadly, we see it all the time, where:
- the web site looked good,
- dogs were appropriately titled,
- the breeder said and did "all the right things",
- all the appropriate health testing seemed to have been done,
- the premises looked clean
- the dogs/puppies looked healthy and happy,
- the "warranty" :rofl1: and puppy contract looked good ...

and yet, it was only some time after the puppy came home,
and things took a turn for the worse health and/or temperament-wise,
that the realization sunk in that ...
"Hmmm ... that was not a good breeder after all!!!
How did we ever let ourselves get suckered in like that?!?"

With over 35 years of fairly extensive dog experience,
and 14 years of delving into the BRT (wow, has it been that long!?!),
if I didn't know so many of the behind-the-scene sh-t
that goes on with specific breeders and specific lines,
I would still find it extremely difficult
culling the very few good breeders from the many poor ones! :dunno:

... adopting a dog that has had a reliable behavioral evaluation or whom has been in foster care long enough for it's temperament to be evaluated

In actuality and relatively speaking,
there are very few BRT's in "foster care".
Sadly, once the dog is mature,
it's often impossible to fix serious mistakes
which have been made during puppyhood and adolescence.

Quite often, when puppies/dogs are returned to "poor breeders",
those which cannot be easily "fixed and re-sold" or immediately re-homed,
are simply put to sleep ...

There is always another litter on the way and, after all,
this is simply the cost of doing business. :yikes:

On the other hand, very few puppies/dogs are returned to good breeders as:
a) they have done their very best to produce good-quality, well-balanced, healthy puppies, and
b) they take much greater care, beforehand,
in placing their puppies and in educating their puppy people.
The odd one that is returned for one reason or another
is normally re-homed quickly and easily.

Like many rare(r) breeds, especially of guardian-type dogs,
the BRT is often misunderstood and misrepresented,
both on line and in person.

For the right type of person,
this can be an absolutely and singularly fabulous breed!!!!!!!!

:banana:

 

[SaraB]

^^^ Excellent post.. not just for BRT's but dogs in general.

The same thing can be said about great danes... there are soooo many "reputable" breeders with mentally unstable dogs and it is impossible to know without looking behind the scenes and becoming actively involved with the breed.

 

[milos_mommy]

By "meet the dog's family" I do not mean just go to visit them once, in the home. I mean go to visit them once, twice, three times. Go out in public with them. Go to the dog show/field trial/whatever with them. Bring your whole family to meet them. Twice. Ask for references. Talk to owners of past puppies from that breeder.

Active research is important. Don't just ask what health tests a breeder has done and accept it...find out what tests are recommended in that breed, and be sure all of them have been done!

I think the singlehanded thing that stops people from doing this is: They want a puppy, NOW. If they decide they want a puppy, they'll wait a month or two, maybe even a few more. But most people don't start planning for a puppy a year or 2 in advance.

Here, I am obviously not talking about BRTs exclusively, nor was I in my last post.