Bill requiring drug testing of welfare recipients passes House
- Thread starter NicoleLJ
- Start date
how bout we just sterilize everyone that is on Welfare now (men / women) and their children and then the cycle will not repeat itself...
Then sooner or later the welfare recipients / their children will have died off because they were sterilized they cant repopulate the welfare population, and then only people that are worthy of anything will be left...
^^ see I just solved everything...
/end sarcasm
Then sooner or later the welfare recipients / their children will have died off because they were sterilized they cant repopulate the welfare population, and then only people that are worthy of anything will be left...
^^ see I just solved everything...
/end sarcasm
Depends on the cancer. I did mention cancers that people can affect. Ie if you smoke a pack a day and get lung cancer.. you can affect that. And in some people its like that with hard drugs.
My point is its a disease. They are now finding there are genetic markers showing susceptibility to substance abuse. Some become horrible alcoholics some get hooked on heroin. Sure you can say they had a choice. They did, but far far less than you or I. Smoking is a choice, so does that mean we shouldn't treat people who smoked who get lung cancer.
My whole point is, sure you can deny them welfare. Let them turn to crime to feed, clothe and find their fix. Then slap them in jail where they can learn to be better criminals and feed their habit. The tax payer pays for that, plus the police work. Your insurance rates cover their criminal proclivities (theft, damage etc). Why is the idea that helping people is so wrong, and punishing them is so right?
My point is its a disease. They are now finding there are genetic markers showing susceptibility to substance abuse. Some become horrible alcoholics some get hooked on heroin. Sure you can say they had a choice. They did, but far far less than you or I. Smoking is a choice, so does that mean we shouldn't treat people who smoked who get lung cancer.
My whole point is, sure you can deny them welfare. Let them turn to crime to feed, clothe and find their fix. Then slap them in jail where they can learn to be better criminals and feed their habit. The tax payer pays for that, plus the police work. Your insurance rates cover their criminal proclivities (theft, damage etc). Why is the idea that helping people is so wrong, and punishing them is so right?
I LOVE the assumption that all people on welfare are lazy, good for nothing slackers. Seriously....its a VERY small percent of people abusing the system. Testing everyone for drugs, the paperwork it would involve, the time, etc costs WAY more than the small amount of people that would be kicked off the program for drug use.
I am thinking some of you are not aware of people in your lives, friends, family, neighbors, etc who are on welfare. The VAST majority are everday, good, honest people who got stuck in a rough spot. Treating them as lab rats, degrading them by making the take drug tests (and yes, I find it ridiculous for work too...doenst prove a **** thing) is not going to solve anything and will only waste a ton of money that could be better spent elsewhere
I am thinking some of you are not aware of people in your lives, friends, family, neighbors, etc who are on welfare. The VAST majority are everday, good, honest people who got stuck in a rough spot. Treating them as lab rats, degrading them by making the take drug tests (and yes, I find it ridiculous for work too...doenst prove a **** thing) is not going to solve anything and will only waste a ton of money that could be better spent elsewhere
Do you really want to live in a country without a social net? Personally I like that I don't have to shoo beggar children away from my car as I leave work. I like that I don't see people starving to death. I like that there are not real slums where I live. Clearly this kind of social experiment worked out well for Haiti where people sell their children for survival. Clearly the slums of India are full of people just not trying hard enough.
While we're at it let's get rid of social security. If the old had planned ahead they'd have 401 Ks right?
While we're at it let's get rid of social security. If the old had planned ahead they'd have 401 Ks right?
how bout we just sterilize everyone that is on Welfare now (men / women) and their children and then the cycle will not repeat itself...
Then sooner or later the welfare recipients / their children will have died off because they were sterilized they cant repopulate the welfare population, and then only people that are worthy of anything will be left...
^^ see I just solved everything...
/end sarcasm
Then sooner or later the welfare recipients / their children will have died off because they were sterilized they cant repopulate the welfare population, and then only people that are worthy of anything will be left...
^^ see I just solved everything...
/end sarcasm
Really? Can you? I don't think you have a clue as to what someone else in this thread has gone through unless you know them personally.
For me, no, I've never been an addict. I've never been an alcoholic or had an addiction to drugs. But two of my brothers were drug addicts and one still is except these days his drugs of choice are marijuana and government-issued methodone. He sees no reason to get off of either. He also sees no reason to get a job, or get his son to school on time every single day, or do anything but bitch and complain that there is no "help" in the world and or gripe how everyone is a hypocrite or how mean people were to him when he was a teenager which I guess excuses every single action since them. He also likes to go on and on about how the police are just out to get him and how it's "stupid" to have to go to jail on a stolen handgun charge and possession charges.
You know what I know? I know that addiction destroys people and not just the addict. It destroys families. But the worst part is that it's the innocent people that pay a far far greater price than the person who made the choice to use in the first place. Maybe my heart has hardened some, but I've seen first hand what happens when you just give and give and give and require nothing from that person in return. Handouts never help anyone. Ever. Want to offer a hand up? That's awesome. But if that person just wants to take and not do his part? Let them fall. Let them fail.
But I'm tired of me and my family paying a price for choices we never chose....for decisions that we never made.....for actions that are not our own. I'm probably one of the most charitable people you'll ever meet. I would give the clothes off my back to not see someone else freeze. I would jump in front of a car and give my life so that a child not be killed. But when all that is demanded of me is to keep giving money and keep giving money so that some person can keep on living and using and buying nicer vehicles than I'll ever own in the hopes than one day they see the "error" of their ways and turn around, then I get pissed.
I'm tired of being forced to give yet the recipient not being forced to do anything to get. It's not MY fault if they choose to fail at life.
I also want to tell the story of how when Cole was a year old my husband was laid off. Struggling with enormous hospital and medical bills from my 2-month-early preemie (as well as my being hospitalized on and off the whole time all the while having crappy insurance) on top of all our other financial obligations, I went down to the WIC office to apply for assistance. In less than 10 minutes I was flat-out denied. Why? Because we had already "made too much for the entire year". So after being denied temporary help to feed my child from a program that people like my husband and I fund, I had to turn to my parents for help. In two months my husband had a new job and things returned to normal and we were able to pay our bills (at least the minimum payments). But it left a bad taste in my mouth that programs supposedly designed to "help" people deny those who need help so it can provide to those who do indeed make a choice to just live off of it because it's "free".
And by the way, my sis-in-law is having her 6th baby on Medicaid because why pay for insurance when it's free? And the egg donor of my nephew still collects his WIC and brings the groceries to her mom's house and they think it's ok because it saves them money and why not...it's free.
Maybe I should just go ahead and move to a country that tells me when to "baaaaa" for my supper.
For me, no, I've never been an addict. I've never been an alcoholic or had an addiction to drugs. But two of my brothers were drug addicts and one still is except these days his drugs of choice are marijuana and government-issued methodone. He sees no reason to get off of either. He also sees no reason to get a job, or get his son to school on time every single day, or do anything but bitch and complain that there is no "help" in the world and or gripe how everyone is a hypocrite or how mean people were to him when he was a teenager which I guess excuses every single action since them. He also likes to go on and on about how the police are just out to get him and how it's "stupid" to have to go to jail on a stolen handgun charge and possession charges.
You know what I know? I know that addiction destroys people and not just the addict. It destroys families. But the worst part is that it's the innocent people that pay a far far greater price than the person who made the choice to use in the first place. Maybe my heart has hardened some, but I've seen first hand what happens when you just give and give and give and require nothing from that person in return. Handouts never help anyone. Ever. Want to offer a hand up? That's awesome. But if that person just wants to take and not do his part? Let them fall. Let them fail.
But I'm tired of me and my family paying a price for choices we never chose....for decisions that we never made.....for actions that are not our own. I'm probably one of the most charitable people you'll ever meet. I would give the clothes off my back to not see someone else freeze. I would jump in front of a car and give my life so that a child not be killed. But when all that is demanded of me is to keep giving money and keep giving money so that some person can keep on living and using and buying nicer vehicles than I'll ever own in the hopes than one day they see the "error" of their ways and turn around, then I get pissed.
I'm tired of being forced to give yet the recipient not being forced to do anything to get. It's not MY fault if they choose to fail at life.
I also want to tell the story of how when Cole was a year old my husband was laid off. Struggling with enormous hospital and medical bills from my 2-month-early preemie (as well as my being hospitalized on and off the whole time all the while having crappy insurance) on top of all our other financial obligations, I went down to the WIC office to apply for assistance. In less than 10 minutes I was flat-out denied. Why? Because we had already "made too much for the entire year". So after being denied temporary help to feed my child from a program that people like my husband and I fund, I had to turn to my parents for help. In two months my husband had a new job and things returned to normal and we were able to pay our bills (at least the minimum payments). But it left a bad taste in my mouth that programs supposedly designed to "help" people deny those who need help so it can provide to those who do indeed make a choice to just live off of it because it's "free".
And by the way, my sis-in-law is having her 6th baby on Medicaid because why pay for insurance when it's free? And the egg donor of my nephew still collects his WIC and brings the groceries to her mom's house and they think it's ok because it saves them money and why not...it's free.
Maybe I should just go ahead and move to a country that tells me when to "baaaaa" for my supper.
I would never say this. But I know people who stopped at 2 or 3 kids (or even just after 1) because they could not afford to have another. Yet my sis-in-law is having her 6th baby on Medicaid. They couldn't afford it any other way, but since all the healthcare and hospital bills are covered (aka "it's free!), why not?
It all boils down to responsibility. And it's about time we force people to be responsible for their own actions and quit making others pay the costs.
It all boils down to responsibility. And it's about time we force people to be responsible for their own actions and quit making others pay the costs.
Definitely not true.
There is a difference in those whose struggle who are content to accept government assistance, and there are those of us who struggle who work really hard to be RESPONSIBLE for ourselves and our families, who's husbands come home from work, to work some more just to make sure all the bills are paid and food is on the table, and to make sure the kids have something to open on Christmas, birthdays, and clothes for school. I grew up in a house where my Dad just did that, and when it is necessary, my husband does it too.
The reason we don't agree with a lot of gov't assistance, is because we struggle and work hard to be responsible for the family that we CHOSE to have. I see people who fully intend on using medicaid and WIC PLAN to have babies. If I knew I was going to NEED WIC to feed my baby, then I wouldn't have one. Or planning(or not preventing) to have a family while using food stamps. I would work my butt off to save up money first because MY child = MY responsibility.
It should be for people in positions like Miakoda where her husband lost his job. Not for people who currently have jobs who just want help feeding their babies, so they can go on buying whatever entertainment and such that they want. And believe I know A LOT of people, especially who used WIC and they ALL have nice big flat screen TVs and new video game systems, etc. We still have my old 32 inch TV from college and a used PS2.
And yes on my husband's income (at least his old job he had until 6 months ago) would have qualified us for WIC, didn't mean we NEEDED it, and we darn sure aren't going to get the assistance just because we qualify.
And it's not all about drugs, I realize that many of the people abusing the welfare system aren't using money for drugs, but they have fancy cell phones, and cars, and TVs, etc, etc...I think the welfare system needs way more reform than just drug testing, but at least it is a start.
I think charity needs to go back to the hands of the people and the communities. I think if our tax money wasn't going into such a flawed system, a lot of people would be way more charitable. I know I would be a lot more charitable if people quit acting like they deserved constant hand outs.
There is a difference in those whose struggle who are content to accept government assistance, and there are those of us who struggle who work really hard to be RESPONSIBLE for ourselves and our families, who's husbands come home from work, to work some more just to make sure all the bills are paid and food is on the table, and to make sure the kids have something to open on Christmas, birthdays, and clothes for school. I grew up in a house where my Dad just did that, and when it is necessary, my husband does it too.
The reason we don't agree with a lot of gov't assistance, is because we struggle and work hard to be responsible for the family that we CHOSE to have. I see people who fully intend on using medicaid and WIC PLAN to have babies. If I knew I was going to NEED WIC to feed my baby, then I wouldn't have one. Or planning(or not preventing) to have a family while using food stamps. I would work my butt off to save up money first because MY child = MY responsibility.
It should be for people in positions like Miakoda where her husband lost his job. Not for people who currently have jobs who just want help feeding their babies, so they can go on buying whatever entertainment and such that they want. And believe I know A LOT of people, especially who used WIC and they ALL have nice big flat screen TVs and new video game systems, etc. We still have my old 32 inch TV from college and a used PS2.
And yes on my husband's income (at least his old job he had until 6 months ago) would have qualified us for WIC, didn't mean we NEEDED it, and we darn sure aren't going to get the assistance just because we qualify.
And it's not all about drugs, I realize that many of the people abusing the welfare system aren't using money for drugs, but they have fancy cell phones, and cars, and TVs, etc, etc...I think the welfare system needs way more reform than just drug testing, but at least it is a start.
I think charity needs to go back to the hands of the people and the communities. I think if our tax money wasn't going into such a flawed system, a lot of people would be way more charitable. I know I would be a lot more charitable if people quit acting like they deserved constant hand outs.
I just wanted to say that I have a lot of respect for your attitude, I wish more people were like this.
I also wanted to let go of a big, fat rant about WIC. ALL military families I knew were on WIC. Why? Because they qualified because the WIC office saw the paycheck AFTER money for housing was taken out (if you live on base housing, you never see the amount allotted for housing, it gets taken away before it hits the bank account). While you certainly can't get rich on military pay, you certainly aren't poor. These families have no bills like you do in the real world.... unless it is bills they burden themselves with. They do NOT need WIC. I actually made a call to the local WIC office and they told me, they qualify and that's it. People who work for the government and abuse it make me furious.
I also wanted to let go of a big, fat rant about WIC. ALL military families I knew were on WIC. Why? Because they qualified because the WIC office saw the paycheck AFTER money for housing was taken out (if you live on base housing, you never see the amount allotted for housing, it gets taken away before it hits the bank account). While you certainly can't get rich on military pay, you certainly aren't poor. These families have no bills like you do in the real world.... unless it is bills they burden themselves with. They do NOT need WIC. I actually made a call to the local WIC office and they told me, they qualify and that's it. People who work for the government and abuse it make me furious.
Responsibility by its very nature cannot be forced. Trying to do so is counter to the very principles our country was founded on.
You can let people fail. You can let them sink or swim, but that responsibility is absolutely not something I'd try to force another person to accept. It's something that needs to happen on an individual level. Not a societal level. Otherwise you end up with socialist totalitarian horrors where the folks in charge decide what is responsible and hold everyone else to it whether they agree or not.
You can let people fail. You can let them sink or swim, but that responsibility is absolutely not something I'd try to force another person to accept. It's something that needs to happen on an individual level. Not a societal level. Otherwise you end up with socialist totalitarian horrors where the folks in charge decide what is responsible and hold everyone else to it whether they agree or not.
:hail::hail::hail:
To me it sounds like everyone on assistance or most people on it are all being painted with the same brush. If we were talking about dogs everyone would be up in arms if the same additude was shown. So some are miss using the system, I am not and many others are not. So why should we, the innocent, give up our privacy and rights just because of a few. That to me is just the same as when someone says well so and so has a pit bull that attacked someone so all pit bulls from now on have to be muzzled. Umm I know most of you would be up in arms at this violation. To me it is the exact same. Why should I have to jump through all these hoops and lose my rights and privacy because of a few others. That is not right in any sense of the word.
To me it sounds like everyone on assistance or most people on it are all being painted with the same brush. If we were talking about dogs everyone would be up in arms if the same additude was shown. So some are miss using the system, I am not and many others are not. So why should we, the innocent, give up our privacy and rights just because of a few. That to me is just the same as when someone says well so and so has a pit bull that attacked someone so all pit bulls from now on have to be muzzled. Umm I know most of you would be up in arms at this violation. To me it is the exact same. Why should I have to jump through all these hoops and lose my rights and privacy because of a few others. That is not right in any sense of the word.
Welfare is essentially a paycheck. Most people WORK for their paychecks, and they have a standard that they are held to in order to continue receiving that paycheck, including if they show up at work on drugs, etc, they will be fired and no longer receive a paycheck. Why should welfare checks be handed out without any kind of standard, or check ups to make sure the people on welfare should continue receiving their "paychecks"? When you are on welfare, to me it seems like the government is your employer (or essentially the American people are, because they are the ones paying your paycheck).
ok if you are looking at is as the government as your employer and the assistance check as a paycheck then please tell me the last time you boss told you how to spend your pay or what you can and can not do when you are not at work?
Many people that have good stable jobs do drugs. Doctors, lawyers, therapists and so on. A lot of people that I know do it for recreation. I know people on assistance that do it as well and they in no way sit on there couches doing nothing. Some have part time jobs. Many assistance programs allow for people to work on the side just like AISH does. In fact they encourage it. AISH allows a single person to earn $450/m before they start deducting for a couple they allow $975. And when they start deducting from $975-$2500 they will only deduct .50 cents off my AISH for every dollar Doug earns. After the $2500 it is dollar for dollar. What about them? Should they be dictated to on how to spend their money? Or have their rights and privacy taken away? This is not black and white. There is too much grey area for this to be a black and white answer.
Many people that have good stable jobs do drugs. Doctors, lawyers, therapists and so on. A lot of people that I know do it for recreation. I know people on assistance that do it as well and they in no way sit on there couches doing nothing. Some have part time jobs. Many assistance programs allow for people to work on the side just like AISH does. In fact they encourage it. AISH allows a single person to earn $450/m before they start deducting for a couple they allow $975. And when they start deducting from $975-$2500 they will only deduct .50 cents off my AISH for every dollar Doug earns. After the $2500 it is dollar for dollar. What about them? Should they be dictated to on how to spend their money? Or have their rights and privacy taken away? This is not black and white. There is too much grey area for this to be a black and white answer.