Being the Alpha with your dog,is this method good?

[Puppy]

hi. ive been reading up on being the alpha, the leader with your dog. i came across this site which gave some exercises to do with your dog as a puppy so it knows you are the leader.

1.Sit on the floor, then pick your pup up off the floor with both hands supporting him just behind his front legs, facing you. Hold him away from you at arms length. Look directly into his eyes. Growl at him if he struggles, using a low guttural sound. Hold him till he relaxes. Vary the time you hold him in this position from 15 to 45 seconds. Vary the location.

2.Sit on the floor and cradle your pup, placing one hand under his head and the other supporting his back so that he is upside down on his back, and up in the air. Hold a larger puppy across your lap. Hold the pup for 15 to 45 seconds, using the same growl as in exercise 1 if he struggles. Hold him until he relaxes.

3.If your puppy is large, substitute this exercise for the first two. Straddle your pup, with one of your legs on each side of him. You should be facing the same direction as your dog. Lock your fingers together under his chest, just behind the front legs. Lift his front legs off the ground for 15 to 45 seconds. If he struggles, growl at him till he is quiet.

4.Place your dog on the floor with all four legs pointing away from you. Hold him firmly by the neck with one hand, and press down on his midsection with the other hand. Talk to him softly after he is quiet. It might take two or three minutes to get him to relax. If he exposes his belly to be rubbed, you are on the right track. Do not allow him to struggle, get up, or nip. Always praise him lavishly in a quiet tone when he relaxes. Now is also a good time to handle all four paws and look briefly into his mouth so he can get used to tolerating your handling him gently. Be sure to do this exercise four or five times a day at first. Taper off as the pup gets more used to you and accepts your leadership.

It also says this about eye contact:

Eye contact is also one of the ways order is kept in a wolf pack. Only an alpha animal may use the stare to remind everyone who is in charge. When you initiate eye contact, you express your alpha position. Encourage your pup to maintain eye contact for several seconds, making it a pleasant experience. Do not force him to do so. Use the term "watch me" and always praise him the instant you have eye contact. However, you do not want to try to do this with a dog who thinks he is already in charge of things. The dog must know you are the leader first. Otherwise you will begin a stare-down contest. An alpha dog will not be willing to be first to avert his eyes. If you are the first to avert or even blink your eyes, it will help confirm the dog's alpha status.


i dont have a dog at the moment, but when i do have a puppy do you think its worth doing the exercises so the puppy knows that i am the leader?
or would just telling him/her to sit before he/she ate, making it move from a certain place so you can sit or walk past? and just giving general commands etc so that he/she knows whos the master be enough to show your place in the pack?

also, with that eye contact thing, what do you do if the dog challanges you? as a puppy is it not likely for that to happen?

but what happens when the dog hits adolescence and he/she begins to challange you. what do you do if it turns into a staring contest, dont back down?

thanks.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

NO that is an awful way to show your puppy you are boss. That is probably the dumbest, worst way I've ever heard of. If you want to teach your dog who is boss you should use Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF). NILIF means that if your dog wants something (attention, food, his leash put on for a walk), he has to sit or lay down to get it. This teaches him that if he wants something he has to do something for you, which teaches him that you are boss. For example before you give him his dinner he must lay down and he must wait until you tell him to eat his food. You should also eat before your dog does because the leader of a dog pack always eats first.

 

[Puppy]

''or would just telling him/her to sit before he/she ate, making it move from a certain place so you can sit or walk past? and just giving general commands etc so that he/she knows whos the master be enough to show your place in the pack?'' ye that was my origianl plan, but then i came across this and was just wondering peoples opinion. anyone else have any thoughts on that?

and what about the eye contact thing?

thanks.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

If I my dogs are in my way, I simply tell them "move" "excuse me" or "go lay down". Whether they lay down or not doesn't really matter to me much as long as they are not in my way.

I taught "watch me" by holding a treat between my eyes and saying "look at me". After about five seconds I gave them the treat and then repeated the command with a new treat. I use this if I want my dog to focus on me and what I am telling them.
If your dog is staring you straight in the eyes, stare back. Don't stare at him in a challenging way, just look at him. Don't look away.

 

[oriondw]

One of the stupidest things I have read in a long time...

 

[Renee750il]

Orion and Gaddy are right.

Give your puppy good reason to love and respect you and it will. Love and respect and earned, not forced.

 

[Gempress]

Puppy, glad to see you're doing research on dog stuff, but that info is definately wrong. First and foremost, there is absolutely no need to do alpha reinforcement if your dog already respects you. Most dogs go their whole lives without ever needing alpha reinforcement.

Also, if you have a truly alpha dog, physical dominance techniques like that WILL get you bitten. I know, because I have owned an extremely alpha dog before. And I have been bitten by him when a "trainer" told me to try techniques similar to the ones you read.

For dogs who are only midly alpha, usually a bit of NILF and obedience work will do the trick. The extremely alpha dog requires some extra tactics (none of it physical). But since truly alpha dogs are rare, I won't get into that here. That's a thread all to itself.

 

[Puppy]

yep thanks for the help. i was just doing some research and ill take that method of the list, i will use NILF. thanks for your help.

 

[Mikey27X834]

Good thing that I now know not just to accept things as fact just because it's on the internet.

 

[Doberluv]

Oh gee wiz! That's the dumbest thing I ever heard of. First of all, dogs are barely pack oriented anymore anyhow. They don't have to be. We have to be their leaders...yes, but you don't have to do all the shananigans. If you obedience train your dog and are consistant with your rules.....if you show the dog that you control most of his resources, he'll be just fine. Most dogs aren't very dominant anyhow. They can become spoiled if owners aren't consistant and don't have rules. But positive reinforcement/reward based methods are all you need to show your dog what you want and what gets him the good stuff. Remove reward or payoffs for undesireable behavior. Be confident, consistant, assertive, kind, trustworthy, have your dog go by your rules before he gets something good and your dog will look up to you and respect you just fine.

 

[bridey_01]

Also, all that growly holding down thing is totally baseless. Alpha wolves are so cool, they never have the need to get worked up and physical, especially with a pup! Everyone respects the alpha wolf because of his ATTITUDE, not because he spends all day bullying every single pack member into submission.
I can't beleive crap like that is still around, you can ruin some great dogs in just a couple of minutes, sigh.

 

[Athe]

If you want to get some good reading materials and learn how to raise and understand a dog "properly"...buy books by Jean Donaldson and Dr. Ian Dunbar. And always keep in mind..."to be a dog is NOT to be a wolf". Dogs domesticated themselves thousands of years ago...we DID NOT take puppy wolves and tame them as some people seem to believe
Also, there are millions of dogs which are the forefathers of our current purebreds still living their normal scavenger lives. These dogs have never lived in home like our dogs do. In studying these wild feral dogs that live "in" villages and just feed off the waste of humans....these dogs do not form packs and live semi solitary lives with just mother and a couple of pups...no Alpha's in these groups at all. The study on these dogs was done by biologists Raymond Coppington and Lorna Coppington...it's an amazing book and opens your eyes to the "real" domestic dog. Pick this book up as well, you will truly learn all you need to.
Myself, I have never bought into those Alpha pack therories and I have always owned a multi dog house hold. I have never had food aggression, within the house hold dog aggression, biting, or any sort of problem behaviors...and this is not due to just picking the "right" dogs this is due to teaching the dogs rules of the household in a positive manner. I have never used force, I used the NIFIL policy only for feeding times...I have never made my dogs wait to go out the dog, I have never held them down, I have never done any Alpha type things. Most of my dogs have been adults, most never have lived in a house before and some have been rescues with problem behaviors before I took them in. The most important thing to keep in mind is to be consistant and don't confuse your dogs. Don't use harsh punishments and keep in mind dogs live in the moment, not in the past. Too many people set their dogs up for to have problems....more people show their dogs that they the owner cannot be trusted every day...it's very sad And some of those Alpha therories could actually be considered animal cruelity.

 

[Manchesters]

I of course disagree with all of the nay sayers. The above techniques are very good, and very valid-----but not for the reason given. They are the exact same things I do on baby puppies to instill absolute trust. The holding on the back, etc. And it works. I can hold any of my dogs in my hands on their back, and they just lay there relaxed.

As far as pack behavior, dogs most certainly do have a pack mindset---if you have a large number of dogs. Of course the pack mindset is exhibited via their behavior with each other. There is no question in their little pea brains who is BOSS. Everybody else around here is a beta, and they all know it, rofl.

Now, if anyone else around here has lived with between 12 and 30 dogs for 30 years, I would love to hear your observations about pack behavior. Otherwise, folks, you ain't gotta clue what you are talking about!!!!

 

[smkie]

I in no way believe that you have to dominate to teach your dog obedience, or field work. I believe it breaks trust..and keeps you from having the strong bond that is developed when you teach with love and structure. Old boss trained a quasizillion dogs without any of the "alpha techniques" we are not dogs..we do not need to act like one.
Old boss had his kennel from 1935 to 1995. Had a large room where ribbons went around the walls and a trophy case full of silver goblets and trays..all trophies from outstanding dogs. Taught them to work together as well.
That was field trials too not show.

 

[Puppy]

Manchesters just out of interest what type of things do you do with your pups, and what are the reasons for this. thanks.

and are there any other menthods like NILF, or any other nor like NILF?

thanks.

 

[Manchesters]

What I Do

Manchesters just out of interest what type of things do you do with your pups, and what are the reasons for this. thanks.

and are there any other menthods like NILF, or any other nor like NILF?

thanks.

Well, I have not had any pups for 7 years now. But basically what I did with them is something that just cannot be spelled out. It is almost like being a puppy "whisperer". You instill self esteem, you teach then good manners around humans (like, "keep your bloody little toothies to yourself!), you expose them to loud noise, to different floor surfaces. You take them outside and let them become accustomed to the noises of the outdoors---birds, other dogs barking, planes, traffic, etc.

You house break them, you crate train them, you teach them to be quiet in their crates. You make sure there are no wires they can chew on, and you teach them what human property they are to leave alone. And so on and so on and so on. It is like raising a human child from a baby up to about 6 years old.

I also showed some of them, of course.

As far as NILIF, that is just a catch phrase used by those that don't know what they are yakking about. Of course when you breed and raise puppies, EVERYTHING in life is free!!!! I created them, and I am responsible for every aspect of their lives. I give them freely what they need. HOWEVER, I also DEMAND respect from them, and I bloody well better get it!!!!!! The result is that they give me what I ask from them, and we have a loving happy relationship. And they are all of course, spoiled rotten!

It just dawned on me---in a way they do earn their keep. They provide me with companionship and love, and something with which to fill my life, so I guess that is working for a living, rofl.

 

[Puppy]

thanks for the advice. what about the things so they know you are the alpha? do u specificly do certain exercises with them? thanks.

 

[MyDogsLoveMe]

I am the alpha male (well female) Both my dogs know that when they hear my voice it is the voice of GOD and they better listen.. Teach your pup with love, consistancy, be verbal and firm but also let your pup be a pup. Teach the pup to walk on a leash with a reward. I taught Nalla (she wasnt about to walk on a leash) with some treats I would toss one in front and she would walk, then she was praised. Soon she realized it was nice to walk around. When I give my babies a treat they have to sit, but Nalla goes through the whole routine before I can tell her..sit, shake, down.. Patience is the most important one of all. Your pup needs to learn to respect you and vice versa... Good job on researching, but come here first you will get enough research without surfing the net.

 

[casablanca1]

I love that list in the OP, because it sums up an entire era of dog training theory. And since old books never die, and often get re-released, these methods aren't going away soon. I used to hate those books, since every time I tried them on my second dog, she threatened to bite me. I finally found Vicki Hearne's books, which aren't how-to books but theory, which were virtually the only thing out there for a while that wasn't obsessed with alpha. She recommended the Bill Koehler's book "The Koehler Method of Dog Training." I can't speak to the success of the man's methods, as I've never really applied them. I can say that the theory, the philosophy, of both Hearne and Kohler made sense to me, and helped me figure out my second dog.

 

[Doberluv]

Totally agree with Athe, Bridey and Smkie. People that think you have to dominate a dog to make it respect you are so ignorant. People who think dogs are wolves are also on the wrong track. But unknowledgeable people also are the ones who don't read anything and stay back in the dark ages, never curious, never wondering what enlightened trainers do with dogs. Holding a dog on it's back in play or for a belly rub is one thing. Holding a dog on it's back with an attitude of domineering punishment is stupid. Trust=respect. Pack theory has very little to do with domestic dogs. Just because there are a few left over instincts from 30,000 years ago, doesn't mean that they are true pack animals now. Pack behavior is only needed for hunting and breeding. Even wolves in the wild do not live a pack type existance at all times. This misinformation floating around comes from proven, mistaken studies done a long time ago. More scientific studies have shown this. Do they need to do those things (hunting and breeding)? Heck no. We take care of them. And we most certainly are not their "alpha wolves." We're the head of our households and make rules which they, like children need to learn and follow. Learing to follow rules comes from teaching, not harsh, punishing, dominating antics and rituals.