Aussie Shep or ACD?

[Amstaffer]

I overheard a discussion between my sister (owner of two Aussie Sheps) and a friend of hers (owner of an ACD). Both of them have working farms and were debating which breed was the best farm dog. I caught the end of the conversation but I thought I would like to hear the chazzers discuss the differences (beside the looks...which are clear)...pro and cons etc....

One of my sisters main complaints about ACDs was they are more aggressive toward people, which is funny because one of her Aussies has bitten two strangers

 

[RD]

I've seen both work and I personally prefer Aussies.

ACDs can be tremendously helpful dogs around the farm but their working style just isn't something many people are compatible with. To be blunt, I think they're hard-headed and once they decide they want to do something to the stock, they do it, even if a command says otherwise. If a dog is quick to grip inappropriately, for example, this could be a problem. Maybe I just haven't met any brilliantly bred ACDs, but the ones I know would rather be wreaking havoc in the cattle pen, than be keeping order. It takes tons of training to get them under control.

To me, Aussies have the power and force of the ACD, but much more finesse and responsiveness to the handler. They seem to me to have more sense around stock.

ACDs are very one-personish dogs. Great if you have a farm and will be there with the dog always, but not so great if you ever plan on selling the dog or ever need someone else to work the dog in your absence. Aussies are a bit one-mannish too and so are Border Collies, it's just not quite as common in those breeds.

Both breeds are keenly protective, but ACDs are definitely more reactive. They aren't quite as diplomatic about it as Aussies are, who prefer to wait and see what happens before making a move. Both have the instinct to protect what's theirs and the balls to back it up, though. I wouldn't mess with either one.

It's all a matter of opinion, really. I personally would prefer a more biddable dog for stock work because even with some flaws, a biddable dog can be trained to take commands that might go against what the dog thinks is the best thing to do.

JMO. I might be totally wrong about both breeds, it's just my opinion formed after seeing quite a few of them work.

 

[neapolitanpitbull]

I do not know much about Aussies, but ACDs are VERY high drive and they are NOT more aggresive towards people, they are some of the friendliest dogs I know. Trust me, I had an ACD x. They learn quick but are hard headed and never seem to keep it...in their heads when you really need it, you know?

 

[Aussie Red]

As an owner of the ACD I may be bias but I had one that was on the ranch and a true worker. I did not have to train him to do anything regarding cattle. He seemed to always know what his task was and what we wanted him to do. In otherwords awesome worker. We got a second one and she did the same thing maybe by following the first ones lead or just naturally I don't know but they did their job 100%. Neither of them were people agressive. Some fifteen years later Whiskey came to us and hard headed he was but very eager to learn and excell at it. Allie is an excellent herder too but then you all know yes she is people agressive and with good reason to be.I have know some who had Aus shepards that have gone on to get ACDs. for ranch work and swear they are better. I personally think it is up to the owner and how the owner trains the dog. ACDs are hard headed but when you establish that you are the Alpha a truer dog you will never own and I have had many breeds. Whiskey is voice trained, whistle trainned and hand signal only trainned with little effort.

 

[Amstaffer]

Good posting guys

 

[Zoom]

I think it all really depends on the person. When I was researching Aussies before I got Sawyer, I ran into a lady who had ACD's in the bookstore and she swore up and down that ACD's were the better dog. Perhaps they were for her, but I like my Aussies. I've yet to work Sawyer on stock or really see any stock dogs in action, but I will.

So far my experiences with ACD's vary...they are a lot more nippy to people than the Aussies I deal with and less inclinced to come out of their shell when nervous, perferring to stay back and be snarky.

 

[RD]

Aussie Red I agree 100% that it depends on the owner/handler. I've seen people work brilliantly with ACDs and clash terribly with breeds like Aussies and Border Collies, and then there are people like me that definitely do better with a more biddable dog.

It's definitely more about the owner's preference than the breed's ability.

 

[Psyfalcon]

One thing I noticed about ACDs is a very self sufficient nature. Their reactive nature could be an asset if they had to work a very large ranch where they would not be too close to their human. The ability to make a decision could be vital. I've also seen this in an ACDxBC, the dog would dig into a mud puddle in order to create a small pool of water to drink from. While you might not want the dog doing it very much, it is nice to see the dog has the ability to solve a problem on its own, and get a drink without bugging the owner

I don't know if Aussies do the same things, which could be a factor if you were in a very harsh climate.

 

[sam]

A good aussie and a good cattle dog are both extremely intelligent and both great stock dogs, but traditionally are used differently and have hugely different temperaments and personalities.

Aussies are jovial and funny, they LOVE their people and to be with them. Aussies tend to love children and are widely known for their wiggle butts. Aussies often love to play, love to cuddle and have sort of puppylike personality all their lives. Aussies are known for thier vertical leap. They are the bounciest dogs on earth. When an aussie is excited you often find yourself eye to eye with them. Aussies are supposed to be "reserved with strangers" but it usually only takes you saying "HI!" to the stranger for them to be accepted like a long lost friend. They do look pretty scary if they perceive a threat and should be able to "guard the farm".


Cattle dogs are SERIOUS dogs. They are smart and INTENSE not prone to silliness and are much more independent less "soft". They are very loyal and tend to be one person dogs. Someone once described ACD's to me as a dog bred to be able to take a lickin' and keep on working unphased wether the "lickin" was a kick from a cow or a cowboy. They would be more aloof, less lovey than the aussie but the type of dog that would probably give it's life to save you and wouldn't back down from anything. My friends recently deceased old cattle dog could go and separate two fighting bulls. He went in straight for their faces like nothing you've seen- very brave, tough little dogs.

Because they are so different, I wouldn't think that an aussie person would be attracted to ACDs or vice versa. It just depends what qualities you like in a breed.

 

[chinchow]

I have a farm, and if I didn't use my own spitz dogs for working, I'd have an ACD.

Every Aussie Shepherd I've seen on stock has been too soft and friendly, and some have even had trouble getting them moving. They had very good handlers.
These days though, trying to find a good Aussie to work is becoming rare. They are getting lost, just like the Border was (though now I myself don't have to look far for a nice working BC, so not sure in your area, which is why i say was).

I made the mistake when I was very young, buying an ACD as a mere pet. I'll never do it again. They have extremely high drive (even the show lines I've met, though few, were very drivey and had working titles tacked right to them, and competed in stock dog trials outside of their kennel and breed clubs). I love the breed, but I've said for years that it's the worst dog to have as a pet unless you're an extremely patient and experienced person. And I've talked more than one person out of getting them as their first family dog.

If you want a dog who is people-friendly, and works extremely hard, and will show it's loyalty until the day it dies, then it's the ACD. They aren't hard once you can get into their heads....it's just getting into those thick thick skulls that's the problem!

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

QUOTE by Chinchow:If you want a dog who is people-friendly, and works extremely hard, and will show it's loyalty until the day it dies, then it's the ACD. They aren't hard once you can get into their heads....it's just getting into those thick thick skulls that's the problem!
__________________
QUOTE by neopolitanpitbull: I do not know much about Aussies, but ACDs are VERY high drive and they are NOT more aggresive towards people, they are some of the friendliest dogs I know.

Whoever thought ACD's were friendly are WAAAY off. However, Chinchow you are very right about how LOYAL they are, extremely! They are NATURALLY suspicious of strangers and very reserved. My boy does not take to strangers kindly and they are not a wiggle butt happy go lucky dog. I do protection and Schutzhund work with my guy and he is very serious, driven and Ballsy as all hell! He is trained to the nines and listens and respects me to the fullest. He is very focused on me at all times when it is time to work and will sit stay till I tell him to come (I could walk 2 miles away and he would stay put) LOL!. This is a wonderful tough breed of dog and I personally like the look of them more than a BC or Aussie shep. I was attracted to the bullyish look in them and there loyalty, drive, and protection ability. He is wonderful and loves my daughter but I never let Caiza approach people or other children for that matter. This breed is extremely easy to train and it is almost like they just know what to do and read your mind.

 

[sam]

I have a farm, and if I didn't use my own spitz dogs for working, I'd have an ACD.

Every Aussie Shepherd I've seen on stock has been too soft and friendly, and some have even had trouble getting them moving. They had very good handlers.
These days though, trying to find a good Aussie to work is becoming rare. They are getting lost, just like the Border was (though now I myself don't have to look far for a nice working BC, so not sure in your area, which is why i say was).

I made the mistake when I was very young, buying an ACD as a mere pet. I'll never do it again. They have extremely high drive (even the show lines I've met, though few, were very drivey and had working titles tacked right to them, and competed in stock dog trials outside of their kennel and breed clubs). I love the breed, but I've said for years that it's the worst dog to have as a pet unless you're an extremely patient and experienced person. And I've talked more than one person out of getting them as their first family dog.

If you want a dog who is people-friendly, and works extremely hard, and will show it's loyalty until the day it dies, then it's the ACD. They aren't hard once you can get into their heads....it's just getting into those thick thick skulls that's the problem!

I know lots of aussies that work sheep really well including my own. Just like with border collies , you need to know what lines the dog comes from. A dog from working lines should herd really well. A dog from show or sport lines may still have that ability but it may not.

 

[wookie130]

I've never actually owned a ACD or an Aussie, but my sister and law has a pair of young (around 9 months old) Aussies that are opposite-sex littermates. Are they wonderful dogs, or what? They have probably been the most problem-free puppies I've ever seen...they will not be working dogs, as she doesn't have livestock to herd, etc., but they are great pets!

 

[chinchow]

I'm of course speaking with my own experience, since it's impossible to say exactly what other people deal with.

Where I'm from, I never see Aussies working anymore. Used to, and let me change it to very few of the Aussies I met worked well.

Also, I know that ACD's are wary of strangers. However, I've never met one (and I've met plenty of untrained ones) who wouldn't give all they've got just to get a good pat on the head, they loved to play with adults and children, and were only wary when they needed to be. Perhaps it's just a different type of bond that I experienced with the breed, but the ones I've met, and the ones I've had, have all been extremely friendly with people they knew, and only gave a head-cock and a glare at those they didnt, maybe a few barks.

 

[RD]

Chinchow, the problem is that there are not many true, working Aussies left. Working Australian Shepherds are a far cry from their showring counterparts - the words soft and weak don't even come to mind when I'm thinking of Aussies. Perhaps the dogs you met had good handlers but are you sure they were good examples of the breed?

 

[chinchow]

RD, that's what I said in my first post. There just aren't many left.

I have met good working Aussies, but not many.
I didn't pry to see where they started out or who their granparents were, etc. Just going on conformation alone I could say they were not show dogs, though they could've just been badly put together through the art of genetics and surprises. Who knows, maybe their littermates are all going to Westminster. Or maybe they are titled working champions.

So until the working lines get better, I'll stand by to say that the ACD is the better choice. Not to say Aussies are terrible, obviously.

 

[Jynx]

you should come to New England, *vbg*..we have quite a few really nice working aussies in this area, lots of great herding trials, alot working cattle.

My rescue is out of Los Rocosa lines , he's actually easier to live with than my "cream puff" who is out of a mix of show/working..She is one tough cookie on sheep, to tough for me to handle *vbg*,,and herding is where she tends to take life seriously ..

I've actually seen more BC's bomb instinct tests of late,,One of my vets has ACD's, tough cookies, and as Red described, wary of strangers, maybe aloof?
My aussies would let an axe murderer in my house, I doubt my friends ACD's would.

I definately think tho, the aussies in general tend to take things less seriously than acd's and are less "intense" than bc's
Diane

 

[doubleblind]

My neighbor has an AKD Black and white Austrailan Shepherd. It is the greatest dog I've known. It surpases all we were taught to believe about "Lassie". It's owner manages 3 Texas cattle ranches, and "Two Paws" goes to work every day in "Daddy's" pickup bed. He big and stong, and has whipped everydog that has come on his territory, these last 10yrs that I have known him. However, "No, Two Paws", lets all dogs pass. I once had 7 day old chicks setting on the grass, when a neighbor pulled up in the yard, and I had to leave the dog's view. I said "No, Two Paws", and left him 15 minutes, when I returned the chicks were playing unharmed under his feet. (Try that with your ACD). When he starts across my pasure from the neighbors (to get his dog biscuit is sneak him in the mornings) I've only to yell, Go Home, Two Paws",.he wheels, and trotts slowly home. One day, A really big Dog Coyote tore out of the creek, across my pasture, straight at my horses. Two Paws was up and at him full tilt, when I pushed the front door open and yelled "No, Two Paws". Two Paws pulled up and stopped, then, when the yote cleared the pasture without incident, Two Paws, went back to his master's step. And this is not even MY DOG !

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

As the owner of a Australian Cattle Dog ( this is my second one) I can attest to the ACD being very "un-social"..... they are a very hard headed breed and honestly its a challenge to get them in the show ring at all. My first girl was good about it, but my current red bitch is having her say in it all.

I really am not into the working aspect of the breed, so dont have too much to say when it comes to aussie vs. acd, but I do think the ACD is a much more bullheaded breed, and that can come in handy when dealing with cattle. I cant see a Aussie taking a kick and getting back up... but sure can an ACD.

And honestly, people dont need to make this thread into a "this breed is better" thing, because thats why we have different breeds to fit with different people's needs/wants in a dog.


Ryan

 

[Zoom]

Quite a few Aussies take a licking and keep on tickin', even with cattle. Why do you think they're so big with the ranchers? ACD's are as well, and it all comes down to preference of breed and working type, but there are some seriously hard-headed Aussies out there. Find stories by the Ericssons, Sorensons, Peter's Ranch, etc...those are some tough dogs!