Am I killing my dog?

[Kellster]

Chazzers, I need your knowledgeable input. I'm feeding my Westie (Harlow) a raw food diet. Recently I started making it myself. I shared my recipe with the breeder who I bought Harlow from. She in turn forwarded my e-mail to a woman who apparently counts herself quite the expert in dog nutrition. This woman wrote my breeder a rather alarmist e-mail stating things like, "I'm so alarmed.." and "I hope Harlow will be OK, but this woman is so misguided". My breeder shared her comments with me because now she's worried that I'm killing her dog and she wants me to stop. Here's my menu plan. It's my intention to mix it up from week to week, but here's my first effort. Please tell me what you think:

I took a fistful of dandelion greens, parsley, assorted salad greens, a few florets of broccoli, a red pepper, and couple of carrots. I ran these things thru a juicer to fully masticate the veges. I then reconstituted the pulp with the juice. I took one part of this vege pulp and added two parts of a good quality ground beef. Then I added several raw egg yolks, a couple tablespoons of ground brazil nut meat (good source of selenium) and some cottage cheese. Before I serve it I drizzle some olive oil over it. Though I didn't add any organ meats to this particular batch, I mentioned in my e-mail to my breeder that I planned to add some organ meat in my next batch.

So this woman writes, among other things, that broccoli in its raw state is toxic to dogs, as is parsely, and that she can't understand why anyone would offer any living creature something as harmful as organ meat (yes, her over-the-top language annoyed me). She urged my breeder to try to guide me to a good quality raw dog food company, such as Bark Avenue. I immediately went to my freezer and pulled out the bag of Nature's Variety food I've been buying for Harlow (a very reputable, national raw dog food company) and low and behold, there's raw parsley, broccoli and organ meats in their product. So now I want to respond, very nicely, but I need to be well-informed. So please give me your expert input. If I'm killing my dog, you can say so, I want to know, but I suspect I'm not doing that bad a job and I want to put my nice breeder lady's mind to rest.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Well, I personally wouldn't feed your raw meal plan. I don't see the need for bell peppers and all that jazz. I prefer to feed my dog simple things, so he gets chicken and turkey and beef and we throw in organ meat now and then and soon he'll get tripe. We were adding Honest Kitchen to his meal to mix in his meds, but we've since stopped (we're testing something).

I think you're diet is too complicated and you can take it back a few notches and let your dog enjoy a decent raw meal. And I'd love to know who this nutrition know it all is.

 

[puppydog]

I am with BP. You don't need to go over the top fancy. Just some good honest veggies should do the trick.

 

[maple]

I feed my dogs big raw pieces of meat, with a little bone and a little organ. I also add a fish oil capsule, but they love 'em, so I actually use it as a little treat, since they'll sit up pretty and do all sorts of parlour tricks for 'em. LOL!

Veggies at all for a carnivore are extraneous. All that pulping and such is a lot of unnecessary work.

I agree that this 'nutritionist' is being rather alarmist. What qualifications does one require to call oneself a canine nutritionist?

 

[milos_mommy]

The nutritionist sounds full of crap, i've never heard of parsley or organ meats being bad for dogs, not sure about broccoli...fruits and veggies are okay but i don't think you need all that stuff...it shouldn't be harmful though ??

 

[HoundedByHounds]

I'd slow down on all the GREEN...and organ meats as I understand are a less is best type thing...but not sure. Parsely can help dogs that are incontinent...that I know. Broccoli? Wow no thanks on that...the GAS alone!

 

[girlbuffalo1]

I think your diet sounds a-ok to me. I had Mordy at the dog nutrition site create me a meal plan and it is quite similar to yours with a few additions. Now as I feel better with the plan and what not I stray quite a bit--but it is very similar to yours. I always include raw meat, veggies, rice and or potatoes, egg and shell, and vitamins and kelp and small portions of organ meat--I run everything through the processor as well and freeze bowls of the food to thaw for later. I generally take around 2 hours and make a months worth of food.

I see nothing wrong with you plan--although I would be sure to get some organ meat in it and also some calcium if you are not feeding bones (for me this is baked egg shells). I would then make sure you vary things up and you should be fine.

 

[PWCorgi]

When I fed raw it was roughly 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ meat.

 

[Renee750il]

I think your diet sounds a-ok to me. I had Mordy at the dog nutrition site create me a meal plan and it is quite similar to yours with a few additions. Now as I feel better with the plan and what not I stray quite a bit--but it is very similar to yours. I always include raw meat, veggies, rice and or potatoes, egg and shell, and vitamins and kelp and small portions of organ meat--I run everything through the processor as well and freeze bowls of the food to thaw for later. I generally take around 2 hours and make a months worth of food.

I see nothing wrong with you plan--although I would be sure to get some organ meat in it and also some calcium if you are not feeding bones (for me this is baked egg shells). I would then make sure you vary things up and you should be fine.

Well, there you have it I'd ignore the woman . . . and unless this dog is co-owned, it's YOUR dog now, not the breeder's.

 

[Gempress]

Your raw plan is certainly not killing your dogs. There are a few things that I think need fine-tuning, but that's about it.

I personally wouldn't feed your food, but that's just because I don't like getting that complicated. My dogs eat 4-5 pounds of food a day. That would make for a LOT of mixing and blending! My two get mostly whole sections of raw meat, bone-in and skin-on. They get organ meat mixed with some cooked veggies and canned salmon about once a week, or maybe some ground meat with yogurt, but that's as fancy as I get.

The only things that concern me about your food is:
-lack of variety in protein
-lack of bone

From what I understand, unless your dogs have allergies, a variety of protein sources is very important in feeding raw. You don't want your dog to eat only beef. I would vary it up a bit--use chicken, pork, lamb, fish or other proteins on occassion.

I don't know how much cottage cheese you're putting in the food. But plenty of calcium is extremely important when feeding raw. It's better to give too much than too little. Try giving your dog whole pieces of boney meat on occassion. Chicken and other poultry are great for that. Chicken necks, wings and backs are great sources for bone depending on the size of your dog. You can also use crushed eggshell. Save your eggshells, leave them out until they're dry, crush them up finely and add them to the food.

 

[Gempress]

I think your diet sounds a-ok to me. I had Mordy at the dog nutrition site create me a meal plan and it is quite similar to yours with a few additions.

If Mordy made it, I would go with it. She is a dog nutritionist you can trust. She also does consulting and will help create a plan for your dog.

Her Web site is:

www.dogfoodproject.com

It's definately worth checking out.

 

[Dakotah]

I agree with what everyone else is saying.

I dont mean to highjack your thread but where would I go about starting to feed raw for Jet? Never mind I'll make my own thread.

 

[DanL]

A agree with Gempress- too complicated! There really isn't any need for a lot of veggies that require a bunch of processing to be digestable. Keep it simple- a variety of raw meaty bones, a variety of muscle meats and fish, organ meat is the basis.

 

[elegy]

you need some calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat. personally i want to feed meat that my dogs have to *chew*. you get all the extra benefit for the teeth that way.

 

[maple]

you need some calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat. personally i want to feed meat that my dogs have to *chew*. you get all the extra benefit for the teeth that way.

i agree with you. the ripping and tearing is a part of the eating, it gets their digestive juices flowing and is all part of their 'meal'. it is also what helps to keep their teeth clean -which definitely aids in overall health.

 

[release the hounds]

I agree, lack of protien and lack of bone in the diet. They don't need all the veggies and fuits like humans, they have different GI systems and needs than we do. Organ meats are great for dogs. Mine get a lot, lungs, trachea, heart (muscle meat) liver, kidneys, pancreas. Mix it up. I don't think you are killing your dog, but I would fine tune it as others have suggested.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

No, Mordy's consult site is betterdogcare.com.

 

[Saje]

No, Mordy's consult site is betterdogcare.com.

If you really want to tailor a diet to your dog's needs and prove to your breeder that you know what you are doing I'd see mordy^ Not only does she know what she's doing but she has the knowledge to help you 'defend' the food you feed. If necessary.

And to me, the diet looks like it has far too many 'extras' and not enough necessities like bones and meat.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Wow... what a nutjob! And that lady calls herself a nutritionist?! Everything you listed is perfectly fine for a dog. And, organ meats are A MUST. I think somebody's misguided, but it isn't you! I do suggest sticking to pre-made with supplemental raw meaty bones until you've done some more research (Mordy's site, Livejournal Raw Dogs group, & Yahoo Raw Group are a few good places to research).

Didn't you say Harlow's breeder fed Dog Chow? Ha. Who is killing whose dogs? D;

 

[Kellster]

Thanks Everyone. I appreciate your input. I forgot to include the ratio in my vege/meat mixture. I used one part of the vege mix to two parts hamburger. So perhaps that's a better percentage of protein/meat than my original post suggested. I plan to add other types of meats, including organ meats in future batches. I'll mix it up. As to the fancy schmancy veges. I'm a raw fooder and our frig is always stocked with lots of veges, so for me it's not complicated or onerous to grab a few items from the fridge and run them thru the juicer. I know that lots of people on this Board are prey-model advocates. Admittedly the only book I've actually read so far on feeding raw is Ian Billinghurst's Feed Your Dog A Bone. He stated that dogs need some veges, but don't digest them well unless they've first been well masticated. So that's why I run them thru the juicer and then reconstitute the pulp with the juice. I own a really good quality juicer, so processing Harlow's veges this way isn't onerous for me. After reading all your posts I think perhaps I need to alter the ratio to one part vege pulp to four parts meat. I'll also check out Mordy's site. Thanks again.