On another forum, there was a thread made about Pit Bulls...
This was a post made:
OK, those were two of the posts....
I wrote back this:
Then I posted some stats about BSL not working and how bites have actually risen, etc... then it went on for 6 pages and I posted this and actually used an analogy that I had read here on chaz a while back (I can't remember now who posted it... but I liked it and posted it, if you were the one, hope it's ok I used it, I didn't take credit for it -- just agreed with it!)
OK, was I wrong? I am the first to admit, I am not an expert on Pit Bulls but it makes me sooo sad to read when people feel that they need to not even exist anymore... and I just know from what I've read how wrong BSL is and I just don't agree with it at all so I wanted to get a point across to some of these people who are misinformed or don't understand the Pit Bull at all.
Well, a few took huge offense to the analogy. I don't really see how it's ANY different than them saying what they were saying about Pit Bulls... to me, blaming something on an entire race for something a few of them did, is the same as blaming an entire breed for something a few of them did so I was trying to prove a point. I also used a Hitler analogy in one of my posts. I did apologize because I never wanted to turn into a personal attack, I think my post was misunderstood and I am often not good at saying what I mean to say in arguments but it's something I feel strongly about .... Am I in the wrong here, could I have worded things better? I just feel the need to stand up for Pitties but want to give them justice and do it properly.
This was a post made:
I know it is very unpopular to say but I still believe the only right thing to do is enforce spay and neuter on all pit bulls and maybe some of the other more dangerous dogs. I KNOW it is not the dogs' fault. Man bred them to be killing machines and then MAN continues to leave them unattended, untrained, and often uncared for themselves. Since we cannot trust man to take the necessary precautions, we really need to stop this breed. There is no need for it to continue. They were bred to kill and kill they will until we spay & neuter them all and end the blood lines there. I do not want to put them all down, although that is what happens in most cases where they attack humans. But I do want to stop the breeding of dangerous breeds. I know many are as sweet as can be right up until the day they aren't! After most attacks, people describe the dog as friendly an would never hurt anyone before that day. We should never have bred for these characteristics in the first place -- but there is NO REASON to continue to do it. We should spay & neuter all and people could replace their next dog choice with a less dangerous dog. They just have the propensity to kill where so many other agressive dogs do not. yorkies sure are feisty little things and I am sure nip often, but they would have a pretty hard time opening their little mouths enough to really hurt anyone.
So, there it is -- my controversial opinion. Sorry pit bulls -- man has let you down! But there just is not other logical answer that will save all the lives that will be lost otherwise.
You can get statistics to prove just about anything you want if you know how to selectively collect and collate them. I worked in statistics for quite a while. In fact, I am embarrased to say, I was known for being able to "work" the statistics. Never lying, mind you -- but you can bend a LOT! The things you need to remember are the photos of poor children that are marred forever, or the gravesites of those who won't draw another breath. You can't bend those facts! WHY would we want to continue breeding dangerous dogs when there are plenty of other breeds to choose from? What can be gained by breeding a pit bull that cannot be from another breed? Unfortunately it has become a macho thing to have a big, bad, dog with a big, bad reputation. Immature people are drawn to them -- people who do not care for their dogs or train them tobehave. It makes it horrible for those who truly love the breed for the good traits.
So, there it is -- my controversial opinion. Sorry pit bulls -- man has let you down! But there just is not other logical answer that will save all the lives that will be lost otherwise.
You can get statistics to prove just about anything you want if you know how to selectively collect and collate them. I worked in statistics for quite a while. In fact, I am embarrased to say, I was known for being able to "work" the statistics. Never lying, mind you -- but you can bend a LOT! The things you need to remember are the photos of poor children that are marred forever, or the gravesites of those who won't draw another breath. You can't bend those facts! WHY would we want to continue breeding dangerous dogs when there are plenty of other breeds to choose from? What can be gained by breeding a pit bull that cannot be from another breed? Unfortunately it has become a macho thing to have a big, bad, dog with a big, bad reputation. Immature people are drawn to them -- people who do not care for their dogs or train them tobehave. It makes it horrible for those who truly love the breed for the good traits.
I wrote back this:
I agree that man has definitely let these innocent dogs down... did you see the photo of the ShihTzu attack? Surely that was not just a little "nip" and they are not that much bigger than Yorkies.
The main reason ban legislation doesn't work is because it's never a black or white issue. So, if we are allowed to ban Pitties because they were "bred to kill" that also makes it able to ban Yorkies because they were ALSO bred to kill. Both are terriers. Who is to say we can ban one, and not the other? (Btw, Pits were bred to kill dogs. NOT people. Any Pit that showed human aggression in the early stages of the breed were killed). Pugs are banned in a certain area for goodness sake. I can't imagine being told I am no longer allowed to have keep a Pug. Or if suddenly, Yorkies became super vicious because of stupid breeders, and suddenly, Yorkies were banned and were no longer allowed to have them.
I just try to put myself in their shoes. These Pitties are peoples PETS. As passionate as we are about Yorkies -- they are a very passionate crowd about their breed. They like certain traits to them and characteristics that no other breed possesses. It's not that easy to just be like "Oh, I'm gonna pick another breed..." just like so many of us here will always have Yorkies.
Responsible Pit owners never bring their dogs to dog parks, for example. Because they know the risk involved. They know that even IF another dog starts something with them, the Pit will get blamed.
I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.
The main reason ban legislation doesn't work is because it's never a black or white issue. So, if we are allowed to ban Pitties because they were "bred to kill" that also makes it able to ban Yorkies because they were ALSO bred to kill. Both are terriers. Who is to say we can ban one, and not the other? (Btw, Pits were bred to kill dogs. NOT people. Any Pit that showed human aggression in the early stages of the breed were killed). Pugs are banned in a certain area for goodness sake. I can't imagine being told I am no longer allowed to have keep a Pug. Or if suddenly, Yorkies became super vicious because of stupid breeders, and suddenly, Yorkies were banned and were no longer allowed to have them.
I just try to put myself in their shoes. These Pitties are peoples PETS. As passionate as we are about Yorkies -- they are a very passionate crowd about their breed. They like certain traits to them and characteristics that no other breed possesses. It's not that easy to just be like "Oh, I'm gonna pick another breed..." just like so many of us here will always have Yorkies.
Responsible Pit owners never bring their dogs to dog parks, for example. Because they know the risk involved. They know that even IF another dog starts something with them, the Pit will get blamed.
I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.
I posted this above but everyone that is for BSL seemed to pass by some of the facts I posted. In the ten years since the Dangerous Dogs Act banned the last 4 dogs in the UK, dog bites have increased by 50%. Clearly... something is NOT working.
Thanks to BYBers and puppy millers, Golden Retrievers have been on the rise over the last decade or so for dog bites. However, subjecting them to BSL would be... idiotic, right? A fast reaction to a huge problem that can not just be fixed by banning them.
I saw this posted somewhere else and totally agree:
Why don't you just go ahead and ban all black people? After all, black people are the cause of violent crime and it's well known that having a group of black people around means that sooner or later, someone is going to get killed, because that's what they do. Black people are vicious killers and are a menace to society.
See how dumb that sounds? Now just replace black person with pit bull.
I don't particularly like Jack Russel Terriers. Most of them I meet are annoying, barky, hyper spazzes who constantly start trouble and get into fights. That's my generalization of them from all the ones I've had experienced with (and lived with). I've only met one JRT that I liked. So because I've had bad experiences with them, I'm going to support that they all be banned? No... that would be silly.
Thanks to BYBers and puppy millers, Golden Retrievers have been on the rise over the last decade or so for dog bites. However, subjecting them to BSL would be... idiotic, right? A fast reaction to a huge problem that can not just be fixed by banning them.
I saw this posted somewhere else and totally agree:
Why don't you just go ahead and ban all black people? After all, black people are the cause of violent crime and it's well known that having a group of black people around means that sooner or later, someone is going to get killed, because that's what they do. Black people are vicious killers and are a menace to society.
See how dumb that sounds? Now just replace black person with pit bull.
I don't particularly like Jack Russel Terriers. Most of them I meet are annoying, barky, hyper spazzes who constantly start trouble and get into fights. That's my generalization of them from all the ones I've had experienced with (and lived with). I've only met one JRT that I liked. So because I've had bad experiences with them, I'm going to support that they all be banned? No... that would be silly.
OK, was I wrong? I am the first to admit, I am not an expert on Pit Bulls but it makes me sooo sad to read when people feel that they need to not even exist anymore... and I just know from what I've read how wrong BSL is and I just don't agree with it at all so I wanted to get a point across to some of these people who are misinformed or don't understand the Pit Bull at all.
Well, a few took huge offense to the analogy. I don't really see how it's ANY different than them saying what they were saying about Pit Bulls... to me, blaming something on an entire race for something a few of them did, is the same as blaming an entire breed for something a few of them did so I was trying to prove a point. I also used a Hitler analogy in one of my posts. I did apologize because I never wanted to turn into a personal attack, I think my post was misunderstood and I am often not good at saying what I mean to say in arguments but it's something I feel strongly about .... Am I in the wrong here, could I have worded things better? I just feel the need to stand up for Pitties but want to give them justice and do it properly.