Agility training

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Panzerotti, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Yeah it's funny how different dogs change in speed over time. Mira started out superfast then as she learned it's to some degree like she figured how much there was to know and slowed down a bit as she was thinking and figuring things out. Now she's back up to superspeed in practice. Her trial speed is someone slower as I think I run a bit differently in trials (something I'm working on with myself!) and a lot of our trials are indoors on mats even though we virtually never train on mats so she is trying to adjust to the different surface at the same time. I'm loving seeing the babydog learn and advance with every run.

    Agility is so much fun :) Pan is going to be a nice competition dog for you!
     
  2. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    This thread has too much malinois. :lol-sign: It makes me want, even though I know I will never own one. They're so pretty!

    Pan, are you training in a hockey rink? That is where Frodo and I will be working too.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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    Just a few reps through the weave poles with Izzie, trying to switch it up and do different things while she does them like videoing from farther away. She's really learned what her job is and the speed is coming in.

    http://youtu.be/gVKFSTRLGhM

    Not to shabby for a partially blind little Pug!
     
  4. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    There's never too much Malinois! :D

    I train all over the place! One of my spots is at a high school, sometimes I set up loose on the grounds but a popular walking trail ends nearby so I tried out the rink. It was nice to not have to worry about loose dogs running over to us, but the footing wasn't quite as nice as grass. It will definitely be nice for you and Frodo though to not have to worry about other dogs. :)
     
  5. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    She's even partially blind?! Holy crap, she IS a WonderPug!
     
  6. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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    Yeah, around 6 months old she suffered a nasty cat scratch to the eye and her iris prolapsed out of the wound. $2500 later she can see some but not well, it's like looking through a drinking straw so no peripheral in that eye which has caused issues with weaving and heeling where she needs to use that peripheral vision. It's taken some work to get her comfortable, moreso with heeling than anything else though, she doesn't like to look up at me because she can't see where she's going.
     
  7. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Indoors you can try a piece of duct tape on the floor. Not that he won't still try to pick it up LOL

    In all the videos you've posted of him, he really seems like he's a good boy! I think within another few months, you'll be even more impressed with him :)


    I think Ziggy and Backup struggle with a lot of the same things actually. I wish we

    It could very well seem to him that being on your right side is wrong and weird. You're changing the rules!


    LOL I almost said in the last post that obedience handlers often struggle with the right hand side thing as much or more than the dogs! Obedience gets you so used to be left side oriented when working your dog that it seems weird and wrong to you as well.


    Are you thinking of trying a running contact with him? Or a just a running aframe? He looks like he definitely has the idea on his DW and teeter. I haven't had much luck with untrained running contacts or running contacts influenced by outside things (me moving a certain way, stride regulators, hoops, etc) with fast drive-y dogs. Often it seems to work until the dog gains speed or it works in a training setting but not in a trial. I struggled for years with my GSD's contacts and never got the issue resolved. When all was said and done, I ended up having to try to race her to the end of the contact and block her LOL And of course...the faster I tried to get to the end of the contact, the faster she tried to and it was truly a race! I have high hopes for the Silvia Trkman method and I know for a running Aframe, a lot of people like Rachel Sander's method. I've heard Susan Garrett is teaching her running contacts using a foot target on the floor.


    [/QUOTE]
    This isn't the best, or even okay, handling but I wanted a video.

    He normally finds his 2o2o much faster and with more confidence (for some reason that is usually something that clicks nicely for him) but I think I was weirding him out holding my phone and not moving with him.

    http://youtu.be/ZU6ycUORVRk[/QUOTE]

    I loved his release into the tunnel from the teeter! He is giving you a "why are you so weird?" look though LOL

    The issue with trying to train things slow than hoping to get speed (or getting it because the dog develops a better understanding/more confidence) is that it's a different behavior when the dog is running full speed than when they are practicing slowly. So you should aim to work at speed as soon as possible because I suspect he's going to be fast :) Even if it means going back to making things very, very easy so that he can successfully do what you're asking...and without killing himself LOL

    Savvy has been in a foundation class for probably 9 months? And we're still doing low equipment and mostly just single obstacles with small amounts of sequencing. For the single obstacle work we do different things, such as lead outs, crosses, sends, etc and all done at speed with rewards after every successful try. Sequencing is very simple - table, tunnel, tunnel. Contacts are done only individually right and will be until they are fully trained, at full speed. I have done some additional sequencing with Savvy because I start my dogs on jumps differently than the instructor does. But he's done no sequences involving contacts at all because they aren't trained yet. He is the first dog I have trained this way, I usually try to start sequencing very early and use appropriately lowered contacts for puppies/beginners. However, I can also see with my dogs how working contacts in this manner didn't work out as ideally as not including contacts until they are trained. Jora of course had the flying off issue, as does Ziggy. Jagger has creeping problems on the downside of the contacts, especially the aframe. Whimsy is pretty good but it took awhile to get her doing full height aframes with her 2o2o at speed and her teeter has required regular maintenance. I feel some of these issues could have been avoided by completely training the contact away from the other obstacles before using it in sequences/courses. The way Savvy is being trained, all obstacles are having a lot of value built into them individually and he's learning way more about proper performance of those obstacles from the start than my previous dogs have.

    I still think there are advantages to introducing easy sequencing from the start but easy is key and using appropriate obstacles. Tunnels, tables and jumps are good to start with. I really like Silvia Trkman's idea of developing sequences around favorite obstacles. For example, she suggests building a lot of value in the tunnel then doing sequences that revolve around the tunnel. First very, very simple (tunnel, jump, tunnel) but very gradually more obstacles and more difficult. This person has some info on ST Foundation class exercises on her blog:

    http://justatibetanpup.blogspot.com/2011/06/st-foundations-class-lesson-one-week.html

    http://justatibetanpup.blogspot.com/2011/08/silvia-trkman-foundations-class-lesson.html
     
  8. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I was just wondering how your RC training was going and kept forgetting to ask. What made you start over?

    I'm about knee high or a bit more with Savvy now. I actually had him on a low DW but I think I increased the height too much and was getting a lot of jumping...some good hits but too much jumping. So we're back to the raise plank. I abandoned RC with Whim for the time being. I have been looking forward to agility the BSCA National (this week!!!) and decided it wasn't a good time to be retraining. Plus her weaves really needed attention, so I wanted to focus on getting those up to par before the National. And now her 2o2o has come along so nicely over the past couple months that I'm wondering if I should retrain at all. She is finally to where she has a great understanding of it and is fast and confident on her way to the position, so I worry about confusion with retraining. Guess I can decide at any time though!

    She's looking great! And I'm sure she'll only get faster :)

    Go Izzie! Not bad at all :)
     
  9. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    hahahaha, that's actually a great idea though. We have a ton of gaffers and duct tape here.
    Thank you!

    It helps having someone who's gone through this and came out alive then. LOL I know now that he has the potential for being a good dog, I'm struggling with if we'll ever get there.




    Totally!

    I would like a running Aframe for his structure but I am not opposed to a stop, maybe a 4 on the floor? Anything to let me catch a second with him may help. LOL


    He and I both share that look of "Man, you're a freak". :p

    I'll try, sometimes I find his brain doesn't even work when it's full speed though. I mean he's coming along with his weaves but if I let him get too fast and send him he'll blow past them and not look back til he's hit the wall. Also today I tried some one and two jump exercises and one jump he did well, two if I held his paw, but if I set him up and let him rip he'd do one and circle the other in confusion, I guess that tells me he needs more intel but it's frustrating for me.

    We have a puppy class like that but it's not offered for adults. Unfortunately most of our adult classes on lower level are geared towards getting pet dogs up and running, then we back peddle and re-foundation with our upper level classes. It's backwards and I don't like it but it's how the boss wants it. :/

    Yeah, I really need to hold off on letting him on the aframe until I figure out what I want for a contact.

    Sounds like you really have it together and Savvy will benefit from this! Thank you so much for taking the time to walk me through some of this, it really does help. It's hard, I know, when no one on here has seen him in action really but I'm so tired of asking people for help and them just sighing or cringing or getting those bewildered eyes that I'm really gun shy about even attempting the big bucks to go to a seminar or privates with any of the big names and this kind of help really does make me feel like we're not just a waste of time.


    Thank you, I'll check these out. I'm not sure but I think the teeter may be Backups favorite obstacle, strange but true. LOL
     
  10. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    I wasn't able to train outside while the snow melted because our field was all swampy, so we had to take quite a few weeks off. When I went back to it she was convinced that only one crazy leap off the board was required, lol. Since I skipped the carpet stage the first time I decided to go back and really imprint the "running" concept in her mind.

    Yeah, it's so tempting to advance things quickly, especially when they're doing well!

    I'm in the process of painting my brand new teeter as well, so we'll be starting that soon. I've been going back and forth about how I'm going to teach it....I'm leaning toward Silvia's method though.....keep it simple. :)
     
  11. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    Welp, Frodo and I went to work on some foundation skillz, and because I have no trainer to tell me what I'm doing wrong, I figure I had better take videos!


    We worked on circle work. Not sure how big the circles are really supposed to be, but I think these were unessesarily large, lol. And I lost him to some smells, and a dropped treat.
    http://youtu.be/3ZSEC5Zrf8U

    I've been watching a bunch/reading a bunch from AgilityNerd, and this is how he recommends teaching front crosses on the flat. So we did some of that, and tighter circle work. I also threw from my opposite hand once when we were doing circles, and I think that would be incorrect because they should be focusing on the side/hand that they are on.
    http://youtu.be/IcV44SzUK14

    And because I'm so AWESOME (read: broke) and didn't want to buy expensive stuff at HomeDepot (read: measuring tape, drill) I made my own agility obstacle!
    Introducing...HoopThang!
    [​IMG]
    I'm treating it kinda like a NADAC Hooper, basically, go through it. If it doesn't work, meh.

    http://youtu.be/15d8G_kM70M
    At the beginning of the video I pulled out his tug, and while I was pleased that he did show some interest in it, it definitely wasn't OMG tug enough for me to keep it out. I need to go buy meatballs to stuff in it again, yuck.
    Things I need to work on: I use the word "go" which I think most people in agility use for "take that obstacle up ahead" and not for when you're running alongside the dog, right? Wrong? Pancakes?
    I didn't think of words in advance, and I can't STFU when I'm working with Frodo, so I need to figure out a word for it, if I want to use a word.
    I need to improve my throwing skillz (though, Frodo's catch was freaking awesome, lol) and when I reinforce.
    I tried to do a variety of things (work from both sides and do a lead out on it once), and I didn't think it was that bad concidering this was only his second time seeing HoopThang.

    http://youtu.be/R3rBLp2v5A4
    Then my rational brain said "He's having fun, end now! You did everything you planned!" and my I DO WHAT I WANT part of my brain said "MOAR THINGS NO PLANS!" and I just...did stuff.
    I used the word "through" instead of "go" for optimal confusion, but I think he probably just tunes me out, it didn't seem to affect him. But yeah, I should probably stick more with plans.

    Overall I didn't think it was bad for a lazy, 6 year old chubby monkey with a clueless handler. :p
     
  12. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I love how you are moving further and further away from hoop thang to have him more deliberatly chose to go through it, that's awesome! Also try sending him through it at different angles not just straight on. So if you were at 6 oclock in the video and you reward him at 12 oclock, can you sent him from 7, 8 and 9 oclock? How about 5, 4 and 3 oclock? That'll get some wraps going. Also when he's further along in his front crosses and rear crosses, do those with the hoop thang as well.

    ETA: Nevermind! I missed the 2nd hoop video.. looks good!
     
  13. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    So when I am sending him from different angles should I be standing stationary, having him go through it and then back to me, or should I still be moving toward the jump, just at different angles?
     
  14. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    You should do both! With a dog like Fro though, the more motion you have the faster he will go. But yes, you should be able to send him through the hoop as you remain stationary, it will teach it as more of an independent behavior so that you are able to send him from further away on a course. However, with a slower dog, the longer of a path that the handler takes, generally the faster the dog ends up running. The last thing you want to do on a course with a slow do is to stop your motion.

    ETA: Also, I love that you are rewarding him in motion (tossing that treat ahead) as that helps add motivation to slower dogs... don't forget to reward him for coming to your hand as well (send him and have him come back to you for the reward).
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Side note (I didn't read all of this yet since I'm at work now, shhhh) I love that corgi picture behind your table. :p
     
  16. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    Isn't that picture awesome?! Ryan's mom found it on a display at Target and had the people working there call her when they were done with it :rofl1: I actually have two, and they're larger than Frodo :p

    Anywho, did more work today, and tweaked my back cause I'm awesome like that :)rolleyes:) so instead of running with him at all angles and upping the chance of injuring my back worse, I just worked on doing lead outs (at least I think that's what they're called!). I love how bouncy and happy he is. It makes my day.

    http://youtu.be/6SIqQz52d0M
     
  17. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    He looks great PW!! Very enthusiastic! One thing I would suggest doing (and I'm working on it right now with Zuma too) is to release him when he looks at the hoop rather than at you. What you end up seeing is that when you line your dog up at the start line, they are looking at their line of travel (ie the first jumps) rather than being super focused on the handler. This will create more obstacle focus and ensure that you know he sees the hoop and will not move past it when released. He is doing a fantastic job of finding the hoop though!
     
  18. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    I started teeter training with Pan yesterday! Also did some beginning handling for push throughs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1-3DAWMv54

    Running contact training is still at a standstill, waiting on a piece of plywood to make a thinner plank than the one I currently have, plus it's snowing again here, grr.
     
  19. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I figure since we started Agility class I can now post in this thread!

    Traveler (and Macky) had their second agility class and it was a blast. Our dogs are awesome.

    We started with 2x2 weaves and wobble boards. Traveler hasn't figured out the concept of four feet on the round board (granted it was a smaller circle). He put front feet on and pivoted and then back feet on and pivoted.

    Then the instructor took us over to the lowered Aframe and Dogwalk. I think she really wanted to get a feel for what the dogs would do when introduced to the equipment and what she would be dealing with. Well Traveler and Macky launched themselves up them both and thought it was the BEST THING EVER.

    She wanted us to just have them going back and forth, gaining confidence and footing. Getting them to turn around while on it and go the other direction and so on. Traveler and Macky have a long history of tree climbing so that was no issue.

    I talked to the instructor about contacts (Running/2o20) and she said what she would recommend is really working on him running up and down the lowered boards while working on stopped contacts separately. That way avoiding the creep and get good foundation and footing for the Dogwalk and Aframe.

    Then Traveler and Macky had their first introduction to the tunnel. Macky immediately jumped on top of it and walked across the top. Traveler then said "That looks fun!" and followed. But by the end they were getting it.

    And to end the class while the instructor was talking Traveler decided it was boring, laid down, rolled over, spread his back legs proudly and started wiggling back and forth on his back grinning like the Loon he is and groaning and making noises. Such an attention *****.

    So lots of fun, two confident dogs and stuff to do at home! Yay!
     
  20. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    They're TOO confident, LOL. They were flying around the obstacles and running ON TOP of the tunnels.
     

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