Agility people

[Laurelin]

Lets talk measurements.

I have not got an official height on Hank yet but I will next weekend. We tried wicketing him with a 16" jump bar and it was very very borederline. I'm a little worried he will actually be an 18" jumper in usdaa. He seems to tiny for that though. I've been calling him 15" tall but he's right at that 16" mark.

In borderline dogs how do these usually go? I'm pretty shocked he could even potentially wind up 18" tbh

 

[BostonBanker]

It completely depends on the judge. I have seen measurements off by nearly 2" from each other on the same dog. If a dog is wiggly, some judges will just seem to throw a number out there. Most will be very patient and try to help you get under a cut off if the dog is close.

You can also work on a certain stance to help you out. I have a friend who asked for a remeasurement on her adult golden and managed to get him moved down a jump height by shaping him to stand a certain way.

And of course, there is always the performance division.

 

[Beanie]

Yes, it depends on the judge.
Ask people who have similar sized dogs who is a good judge to get him measured. Auggie got one horrible measurement by a real bitch for lack of better descriptor, and one bad from a judge who was rattled and in a big hurry when she did him. It was thundering outside and the table was set on uneven ground so it was wobbling back and forth and she rushed to throw out a measurement. People told me I should have told the AKC about that one and asked to throw it out because it wasn't fair or even proper really. At that time they had done away with challenge measurements so that is why Auggie was stuck jumping 16" for so long. When they finally brought the challenge back I knew I only had one shot at it, so I picked very carefully and used people I knew were kind to the dogs and would be patient in order to get an accurate measurement. I have known people with young dogs who travel to a trial they aren't even entered in to get a VMO measure from somebody good rather than being forced to take one from somebody who has a reputation for measuring all dogs high except border collies who get measured low *cough*

If I could do it over I wouldn't have jumped Auggie at 16" ever. I would have put him in preferred to jump 12" as soon as I could rather than rationalizing that he could do it so pursuing it as long as I did. And I would never ask P to jump 18". He could do it - but I don't find it a good option for a long, healthy agility career.
USDAA heights really suck IMO. With everything we now know about dog joint health and the impact of repetitive jumping, et cetera, you would think they would change it. But I think AKC has some stuff to change based on what is better for health too.

 

[Laurelin]

We're doing him in an intro program trial in 2 weeks (wtf am I thinking). It's pretty much like a show n go. No tournament classes and on our practice field so that's what we are trying. No pressure at all. I called him 15.8" tall and chose championship 16". My trainer said you can bump up but not bump down so if I called that I thought he was 16.2" an entered 18" or whatever we would have to run him at 18" even if he measured down.

I've got to decide if I want to do performance if he does measure into 18". But usdaa performance for him... Wouldn't it be 14"? I can't look it up at the moment. In tdaa he measures 12" and we tried it once with the tire. It was not good. He had to really lower himself to make it through. Not that we are going to do tdaa but I worry that 14" might be hard that way too.

 

[Laurelin]

Plus side is he fits nicer into akc jump heights at 16".

 

[stardogs]

Kes has three official measures at 21" exactly, so it totally depends on who you get to measure. We happened to luck out with all judges who took their time and erred on the side of shorter vs taller when there was extra wiggling.

 

[k9krazee]

Crossbone is just a hair over 16" (and he's a nervous measurer) so I had judges I know measure him and who may be willing to call his 16 1/4 am even 16".

 

[BostonBanker]

In USDAA, 18" championship jumps 16" performance. There is no 14" Performance.

 

[Laurelin]

Ah that's what I was thinking of! If he measured 16" and we needed to performance he would have to jump 12" which is not good for him because of the tire ducking issue.

 

[BostonBanker]

Another option is that if he measures into 16" championship, you can always run 16" performance as well. Keep the higher tire and jumps, but eliminate spreads. I think the a frame height is the same, but don't quite me on that.

 

[Laurelin]

Oh that's another idea!

I mean theoretically it's not an issue.

But he just looks small for 18" imo.

 

[BostonBanker]

Yeah, I wondered why I was bothering running Gusto in performance when I started looking at pictures...

I actually could have moved him into 18" Championship without losing our current Qs when they added the new heights. But I am perfectly fine with both my dogs being in performance (other than having to run both in the same height/class and feeling too old for that!).

One more thing to consider re: the tire (because I don't know TDAA rules at all) is if they set the tire to true height. USDAA does, AKC sets it lower than the jump height so the middle of the tire is at the correct height rather than the bottom. So if TDAA sets it like AKC, that may be why you saw Hank needing to duck? It may be a non-issue in USDAA in that case. Also different size tires for different venues - TDAA may use a smaller opening? I don't actually know that, but something to check.

 

[Laurelin]

Yeah they have a smaller tire there. Not sure about height but I'm not going to pursue the venue at all with him. It suck because my small dog agility friends play it but I don't think it's good for him to switch thy much and he just wrecks the teacup equipment.

I don't really care about performance vs championship at this point. But we'll see. I'm anxious to see how he officially measures.

My trainer says 18" here is a small class but 16" seems smaller to me.

 

[BostonBanker]

18" is really small in our region. Both 16" championship and performance are definitely larger classes. I don't usually see more than 3 dogs in the 18".

 

[stardogs]

We have more in 16", usually a couple in 18", but rarely enough for Snooker SuperQs with the heights alone currently. (ask me how I know...grumble)

 

[Laurelin]

How do you superQ?

Could a small class potentially be a big problem? Texas ha a huge usdaa community but its about 90% border collies. A few are 18" but mostly 22"+.

 

[BostonBanker]

Super Qs are a Masters/PIII snooker thing. You need 3 Super Qs for your championship. To get one, you need to finish in the top 15% of the class. More dogs in the class = more available super Qs.

BUT if there aren't the minimum number of dogs in your jump height (5 or 7 depending on the height), you get combined with another height. So if you have an 18" dog and you are the only one, you get combined with the 16" dogs for Super Q placements. If there still aren't five dogs total...no super Q is available.

 

[Laurelin]

Oh man! That sucks! Makes me want to count number of dogs in those classes around here.

 

[BostonBanker]

I have only had the 16" combined once that I can remember. It isn't unusual to have 2 super Qs in 16" PIII for us. I know it really sucks for some groups.

 

[Laurelin]

We got out the real wicket and he's at 15.25".

I was THINKING 16+" just seemed wrong and glad I confirmed that. So we *should* have no issues getting in 16".