Aggressive Dog - Do I hit her or what?

[tainted_870]

Hey guys.

I have a 38KG Rhodesian Ridgeback Bitch. She's overly protective about the house, and there are a few dogs that she doesn’t seem to like. She's also aggressive to most people that don’t have dogs with them.

As of yet she has never actually bitten anyone, but she scares the crap into people, and is a right menace.

I was going to take her on a nice long walk today, and I stopped by the park on the way (and let her off her lead - no one was around). Some woman then came into the park, and my dog sprinted towards her and she was pretty bad to her (in fact, probably the most aggressive I’ve seen her - she still didn’t bite though).

I was pissed off the say the least, and getting my dog back on the lead is quite hard when she goes nuts like that. When I managed to get her to sit, I put the lead on her, yelled at her, and punted her in the side with my foot (not hard, just enough to let her know I was real mad).

She was really submissive all the way home (like she normally is when she goes for someone, because she knows she’s done wrong - yet she still does it!), and when I got into my house, I locked her in the corridor which is quite small, and I imagine is quite un-comfy (she's used to being allowed to roam about downstairs, and climb on furniture).

Sorry I know that's lengthy, but I realise that there's a lot of factors involved in dog training, so I thought I would tell you the full story.

So, do I punish her when I get her back on the lead to let her know she’s done bad (which may make her not want to come back in future)?

Or do I tell her she’s a good girl for coming back (which she may mistake for a treat for attacking someone)?

 

[Rubylove]

First and foremost. You must never, ever, ever hit or kick (or punt) your dog ever again. You are teaching her aggression, this is the worst possible thing you could be doing. She will end up biting someone if you continue to do this.

Second of all. Your dog is not aggressive. She's never aggressive towards you, is she? Only other people and dogs? She is behaving as alpha dog of your particular pack. She feels protective of you, and she manifests it by being `aggressive' towards others, and you are punishing her for it. Not your fault, to us its misbehaviour, to them its normal. She is probably hopelessly confused - she's looking after you, and you yell at and kick her. Poor dog no wonder she behaves the way she does. Rhodesian Ridgebacks in particular are very protective of and loyal to their owners. In her eyes, she is looking after you.

Thirdly. You must always praise your dog when she returns to you off leash. Yelling at her will teach her to not come when you call. She will not confuse praise with returning, for praise for being `aggressive'. You must praise the immediate behaviour, and in this case it is her coming when she is called. ALWAYS praise this.

I am so glad you came to this site for advice before you decide to actually hit your dog. Sometimes, with people, a smack can get a message across. It NEVER works that way with dogs, and you are spelling your own doom if you do this.

You need to reclaim your position as alpha dog, and give your poor dog a rest from this role she has taken on, that she is not equipped to handle.

Tell me, does she display other dominance behaviours such as jumping up, pulling on the lead, going through doors before you?

What is her level of training, is she spayed and how old is she?

Most of all, don't expect her to behave like a human - she is all dog, and she is behaving that way. She is confused and does not know what you want, and it's your job to teach her. Stick around and we'll go through some tips together, but please right now go and give her a hug and tell her you love her.

They can be very trying, but you need to absolutely reverse your way of thinking if you are ever going to get this dog relaxed, happy and calm.

 

[moe]

The following link is to a site with excellent information on aggressive dogs and how to deal with them, well worth a read.

http://k9deb.com/socialis.htm

Mo

 

[Fuzz Puppy]

I wouldn't hit the dog. Then the dog could become even more aggressive. So, hitting the dog teaches it to be aggressive.

 

[shyeow2]

hi
i hv a dog similar to yours, just share my experiences with u..
may b u can try to check weather he aggressive coz of fears or he lack of socialize.. best solution i found is we nid to social our dogs more during puppyhood, to dogs and to human.. our life will be easier if they can get along with human and with others pets.. so.. social them more..!

 

[Doberluv]

Rubylove gave you excellent advice. I recommend getting her into a class with a reputable, positive method trainer. There are other threads here about aggression that you should read.

You never ever treat aggression with aggression. Desensatizing and associating people and dogs with good things is how you get your dog to be OK with them. If you associate them with punishment, they're going to be all the more aggressive. Don't punish your dog. Condition him and modify his behavior. You'll need some help with this from a professional, I think. There are effective methods for training and punishment is not a part of it. Create a good, trusting relationship with your dog. You cannot train a dog without it. You have to be the dog's leader so he doesn't think he has to take care of everything. This comes from training and by your being calm and not emotional. Good leaders don't do anything punishing in a physical way. Give your dog affection when and only when he's behaving the way you like. Don't inadvertantly reward his unwanted behaviors. Anyhow, I highly reommend that you get some help.

 

[Julie]

I say you should not let the dog off lead in public parks.
The dog should always have a lead on so you can always keep control of the situation.
Your dog has warned you, next time you might not be so lucky.

 

[Doberluv]

Good advice Julie.

You can always use a long line.....30 ft or so and that way the dog can run around a little, but you still have control if someone comes along. You could lose your dog if he bites someone or kills someone's dog. Do be responsible.

 

[tainted_870]

Thanks for all the help guys.

In response to Rubylove:

She has NEVER been aggressive towards me or my family; she may have been a few times when playing (e.g. growling when I tug on a toy etc) but she has never been sincerely aggressive towards us (if you get what I mean).

She is just over 1yr old, and she hasn’t been spayed.

She does pull on the lead at the beginning of a walk (when she has loads of energy) and she WON'T come back if she sees another dog whilst she's off the lead dog... not a chance in hell (well, maybe small chance, but still quite low). She will do whatever I want her to do if I put meaning into what I say, aslong as there are no big distractions (like other dogs she wants to play with, or people she wants to bark at), in otherwords she will obey me in the comfort of our house, outdoors it can be a bit harder. As for walking through doors, I tend to make her sit, and I walk through first.

Shes generally not aggressive towards dogs, although recently there have been a few she hasnt liked for some reason (they tend to be dogs of a similar size, or bigger).

It does make sense about you saying she’s confused. I've always wondered why she goes for people when she knows she’s doing wrong (after scaring someone, she will cower, knowing she’s been bad. She can be quite submissive).

So, are you sure that the next time she goes for somebody (I’m not planning it or anything, just in case of emergency) then I should treat her for coming back. She won’t start thinking its ok to attack people right?

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Saje]

Don't let her off leash and you won't have that problem. You need to be responsible about it and keep her under control until you have the problem solved. Worst case scenario is she'll hurt someone and get put to sleep. I doubt you want that. DON'T let her off leash.

Like it was said before, don't punish your dog for coming or you'll teach her not to come when called. Don't kick your dog because all you'll do is teach her to fear you. Use the NILIF link above to learn more about becoming the 'alpha' in your relationship. A lot of people don't know the difference between a dog who is afraid but not learning and a dog who respects you.

You need to socialize your dog with other people and animals and you may need a good trainer to do that.

This might help:
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB825

 

[tainted_870]

Oh, and here are some pics:

Took this one last summer...

This is what she tends to do when she sees other people. Thats the park I talked about...

This is where she used to sleep, now we stop her from coming up stairs. My mate said we were spoiling her...

First dog she ever met as a puppy (my mate's choc lab), which brings me to another question. When they first meet b4 every walk they play fight, but it sounds like they're killing each other, and Im not exagurating either - this sounds REALLY aggressive. I understand its setting up 'pecking order', but considering he's like her 'best-mate' its a bit weird she sounds more aggresive to him than she does to any other dogs...

Thats all, I wont bore you with any more pics. lol

Oh and thanks again for all the feedback. I've learnt a lot.

 

[Rubylove]

The pics aren't boring they are beautiful! She is a stunning, stunning dog. You have obviously taken very good care of her, phsically at least.

Now you need to start looking after her psyche. You can pm me, if you want, or I'll try to get back and post a bit more later after I've done the morning puppy run here at home!! LOL!!

 

[Brattina88]

Good Advice Ruby!

does make sense about you saying she’s confused. I've always wondered why she goes for people when she knows she’s doing wrong (after scaring someone, she will cower, knowing she’s been bad. She can be quite submissive).

I would just like to add that at this point your dog is not cowering because she knows he did wrong. She is cowering / behaving submissivly because she knows you're angry. Dogs don't connect the behaviors they did previously to punishment in the present. If you catch a dog in the act they can be corrected, but after the fact it is too late.
Here's a website that some have found helpful in establishing themselves as the 'leader of the pack.' I do, however, disagree with certain harsher meathods, but its very informative.
http://www.leerburg.com/groundwork.htm
There's a section in which its explained that if a dog knows that the leader can and will handle potentail threats or situations that make the dog nearvous they won't see a need to display the type of protective behavior you described.

Let us know how things are going!

 

[yoko]

the whole playing but sounding like they are killing each other. i totally understand my dog does that with her buddy rover. trust me they're just playing. if they are really fighting you'll be able to to tell just by watching them

 

[Doberluv]

You've been given great advice from Saje, Rubylove and Bratina. If you continue to be harsh with your dog, you'll ruin her. Like Bratina said, she's cowering because she fears you and what you'll do to her, NOT because she knows she did something wrong. Dogs don't have a sense of guilt or morals. You need to learn something about the way dogs think or you won't be able to train your dog.

Don't follow trainers who are harsh with their dogs. It is not the way to treat an animal. Dogs all over the world are trained beautifully with positive, kind, gentle methods. This is not the same thing as permissive. There are ways.

I recommend looking for a reputable trainer who uses operant conditioning based methods and taking some times to learn about dogs. You'll enjoy your dog so much more and your dog will have a happier life and be much more bonded and loyal to you....the way it's suppose to be.

Dogs' lives are too short as it is and we don't have much time with them. Make your dogs life happy. Never kick or hit or lose your temper. It won't teach the dog anything but to fear you. It also will not make you a leader in your dog's eyes. You have to be a good leader for your dog. In wild dogs, at any rate, if a leader is harsh, causes fear and pain, that leader is disposed of at once. The rest of the dogs will not keep a leader like that. Our domestic dogs don't have that option. So, they often live on with the insecurity of not having a leader and struggling within themselves to try and be the leader because they don't know what else to do. Someone has got to be the leader. Behavior problems come about because of this insecurity and then the poor dogs get punished for those behavior problems, when all along....those problems are the owners' fault. If a dog has behavior problems, it is not the dog's fault, but the owners. So why punish the dog?

Please spend some time learning about training and dog behavior. It will change your life. And your dog's.

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.dogpatch.org/obed/obpage4.cfm

Gorgeous dog, btw.
Oh....yes, dogs play very roughly sometimes. If there are no wounds or blood, they're playing. Look online for "dogs' body language" and see if you can find something helpful.

 

[Rubylove]

I thought Ruby and Chester were going to kill each other a few times with their playing!! It can get VERY full on....but you'll be quickly able to tell the minute it gets serious. It's a VERY different kettle of fish, then, and easily distinguishable from play, no matter how rough it gets.

 

[jxxlxxs]

Maybe try getting a wire muzzle, just as a safety procaution, because it doesnt sound like youre 100% sure she WONT bite someone, letting her off leash un muzzled sounds like a TERRIBLE idea. They sell wire muzzles that allow your dog to open its mouth some to pant and i think drink yet it fully surrounds the dogs mouth so it cant bite anything/anyone(not like the cloth ones they use at vets that hold the mouth completely shut) the wire ones are safe to use for a couple hours, where as the cloth ones should be removed as soon as possible.

 

[jxxlxxs]

and about the playing- OH my, you should see my dog when he gets wound up lol (the new pup isnt allowed out with the big dogs yet, im afraid hell get squished!) but it seems like every neighbor we have has atleast a couple dogs that are all friendly, and we live out in the country, so usually once every 2 weeks or so we get em all out and rompin around (the only reason they dont get to play more often is they ALL are totally covered in dirt/slobber and need baths) but our one neighbors breed boxers, australian shepards, and shelties, then we have a couple goldens, a golden mix, 2 schnauzers...its tons of fun!! Socializing your dog is really important, if none of these dogs were well socialized they wouldnt get to have "play time" and thatd be a sad thought!

 

[tainted_870]

Guys your help is amazing. I did nothing but praise my dog today. Even when she took like 10 minutes to come back, I praised her when she did. She seems to actually want to come back now (maybe it’s because I had biscuits, lol).

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Hey guys.

I have a 38KG Rhodesian Ridgeback Bitch. She's overly protective about the house, and there are a few dogs that she doesn’t seem to like. She's also aggressive to most people that don’t have dogs with them.

As of yet she has never actually bitten anyone, but she scares the crap into people, and is a right menace.

I was going to take her on a nice long walk today, and I stopped by the park on the way (and let her off her lead - no one was around). Some woman then came into the park, and my dog sprinted towards her and she was pretty bad to her (in fact, probably the most aggressive I’ve seen her - she still didn’t bite though).

So you took a KNOWN aggressive dog and released her in a public area.

[mod edit. flaming] You are lucky you are not in a lawsuit.

I was pissed off the say the least,

Why would YOU be pissed? You already state you know the dog is aggressive. *YOU* let her loose, knowing the tendencies and obviously untrained status of the dog. I don't see anyone to be pissed at here but yourself.

and getting my dog back on the lead is quite hard when she goes nuts like that. When I managed to get her to sit, I put the lead on her, yelled at her, and punted her in the side with my foot (not hard, just enough to let her know I was real mad).

[mod edit. flaming] You finally get the dog, so you punish her by yelling and ABUSE HER BY KICKING HER? You don't deserve a dog.

She was really submissive all the way home (like she normally is when she goes for someone, because she knows she’s done wrong - yet she still does it!), and when I got into my house, I locked her in the corridor which is quite small, and I imagine is quite un-comfy (she's used to being allowed to roam about downstairs, and climb on furniture).

Sorry I know that's lengthy, but I realise that there's a lot of factors involved in dog training, so I thought I would tell you the full story.

So, do I punish her when I get her back on the lead to let her know she’s done bad (which may make her not want to come back in future)?

Or do I tell her she’s a good girl for coming back (which she may mistake for a treat for attacking someone)?

No. What you do is rehome the dog with someone who will TRAIN it, who won't turn it loose when they know the reactions it is going to have and it does not have a recall.

I suggest a pet rock for you. No dogs.

You are quite lucky not to have been bitten yourself by this bitch before now.

Feh.