Aggressive behavior - please watch this video.

[Martoch]

Hey guys...our 11 week old (normally sweet as can be) Pit/Lab mix just exhibited a very agressive behavior that we're not used to seeing. We gave him a bone with a little meat on it and when I tried to reach for it with my hand, he growled a lot, so I used a glove on a stick instead.

Please watch this video and tell us what you think we should do...
http://members.cox.net/mikeishome/growl.wmv (only 543KB)

Thanks!
Mike

 

[Julie]

I didn't watch your video, but is this the same pup that growled at the people at the front gate of the military base? Sorry if I am thinking of someone else, sometimes my mind is confuzziling to say the least.

I just checked, this is the same pup. I would be very concerned about the behavior this pup shows at such a young age. I am sure you will get good advice from the people here. But, I think I would find a professional dog trainer and try to nip this in the bud before he gets any older. This aggression towards people should not be tolerated at all. It will get much worse as the pup gets older, and reaches maturity.

I hope you find some help,
Julie.





edit: I just watched your video, I am on dialup, but it didn't take too long. It was short.
That video is very disturbing, that pup should be put in place.....pronto.
You will have a monster on you hands......no offense meant.

I knew a couple that had a dog, they thought it was funny for growling at them over food, since there was no training for the behavior the dog grew up and bit a visiting child in the face, she has scars left behind, and the dog was put to sleep. (I am not saying you think this is funny and I am glad you are looking for help)

Check into NILIF training and hand feeding the pup might help with food aggression at such a young age. I am sure lots of people will give you ideas.

 

[Martoch]

Oh no, I don't think it's funny at all...that's why I'm posting it up. He actually bit the glove more than once! We have 2 kids that I'm concerned about as well, so a "sometimes" aggressive dog is not what we need. Even if I reached in to pet him anywhere on his body while he had that meatbone, he gave me the low growl and eyeballed my hand in a menacing way. I don't know how to stop this behavior, but it definitely needs stopped ASAP. He wouldn't even stop growling/snapping when I gave him my low voice "NO BUSTER" that always works when he gets out of line. As soon as the meatbone was out of sight, he was back to being sweet little Buster.


HELP!

 

[Fran27]

I've had the same problem with one of my dogs, when he gets something he really loves, he will growl if you get close, and will try to bite if you try to take the object. We've worked on it and it's much better now though... Either way, it didn't start at 11 weeks and getting a trainer is probably the best solution, but you can also teach him the 'drop it' command. Practice on a toy first, ask him to drop the item, and once it's in your hand praise him and give him a very tasty treat. Give the item back most of the time. They key is to make him understand that he will get something he really loves for it, and might even get the bone back anyway.

That being said, he has two 'ok' reasons to act that way on the video... First, he's in his crate, which is HIS place, and he might not like being disturbed. Second, dogs are naturally not used to giving back what was given to them. So work on that 'drop it', and if you really want to get an item back and he's growling, distract him from it with a very good treat.

Working on basic obedience should definitely help also. At that age he's probably not sure of his place in the pack.

 

[Martoch]

Thanks for the info/advice. I should add that he acted the same way out of his crate...he took the meatbone into the crate and repeated the behavior while in there, but on a higher level. I understand that it's HIS place, thus the more aggressive growling/biting. He actually does really well with "drop it" when we're playing with his toys...but he was a totally different dog when he had the meatbone. We still have the meatbone just in case you guys have suggestions for us to try with it, but otherwise he's not getting it back after that show of aggression. So 11 weeks is quite young to be displaying this? Hmmm...

 

[champagne]

A bone with some meat on it is a very prized possesion for dogs. I would start by giving the pup something not so highly valued and telling him to "give" or "drop" and when he does, give him something of greater value (like a very tasty treat) something small that he can eat in a bite. Praise him like crazy for doing what is asked. We did this with our dog so he would know early on that giving up something meant something good is next. After some time of doing that sometimes we would just give him back what he had given us.

He never felt threaten that he would lose what he is giving up in an unfair way. By this I mean he trusted us enough to know that we were fair about it. We can take or he will give or drop anything no matter what it is he has if we tell him to do so.

He is almost a year and half and we still will ask him to give or drop whatever he has and we take it and just say, oooh how nice this is or something stupid like that and give it right back to him. He looks at us like we are crazy though

If he has something he shouldnt have ...we of course dont give it back...we sometimes will give him a dry biscuit and sometimes nothing.

I swear our dog would allow us to reach down his throat and grab whatever is there....oh wait a minute, we have done that when he went into his sock eating craze

If your dog is growling at strangers you need to socialize, socialize and socialize. You want him to like that strangers are around....so treating the dog and making a big deal in a happy way that a stranger is there, should turn him around. You would only treat if he isnt reacting in a bad way ie. growling...set him up with some of your friends...meet them on a walk and have them give your dog a treat. even ask strangers to help you out...you need to start treating before he exhibits the bad behavior, If that makes sense. Im sure there are others that can explain this way better than me.

also check out this good pitbull forum: www.pitbullforum.com

 

[bubbatd]

Do nip this in the bud, and please don't use a stick and glove as in the video. !! I was think about this type of thing last night when I let Chip nibble some meat and grissel from my T - bone. All my dogs learned to do this and would sit and take turns. I hold it like a corn cob in 2 hands and they would nibble- nibble. Same with spare ribs . It did take EliN's Yogi a while to catch on ! We had the 3 goldens and Yogi sitting in a row ...and when it was Yogi's turn , he grabbled the bone. He learned the nibble soon after !

 

[Martoch]

I figured a glove meant to keep fish teeth out of my skin would be better than donating blood.


So you guys think I should present the meatbone to him again, but hold it and only let him nibble? How long should I do this and should I ever fully give it to him?

BTW, I'm calling a few dog trainers first thing tomorrow.

 

[doberkim]

im sorry, but that behavior from a YOUNG PUPPY is unacceptable -and based on past descriptions, i have serious misgivings about the temperament of your puppy.

even dogs that i have seen growl and guard, have not gone to THAT extent as an 11 week old puppy. personally, that dog would be euthanized in any shelter. i would not keep that puppy around children and would not let my children interact with the dog at all.

this dog needs professional help - this is much more, IMO, than just a lack of socialization or training - unsocialized dogs do not attack at 11 weeks old - you said the dog bit the glove MULTIPLE times?

sorry, but at 11 weeks old, that is completely inappropriate behavior. i would jnot offer you ANY advice in how to make this better - the dog needs to see a professional that can actually handle the dog and see what is going on.

 

[Martoch]

We are going to seek professional help ASAP. Aside from this video (and the barking at the gate guard), he's an angel. We can pull anything out of his mouth (treats, toys, balls, etc), touch him anywhere, play rough, etc and he NEVER growls or even looks like he might. The kids play with him all the time and he's so tolerant. He doesn't care about baths or put up a fight when I clip his nails. This is the first time in the 4 weeks that we've had him that he's shown any type of aggression. I'm not trying to show our puppy as a deadly terror, but he obviously needs some training.

We were absolutely puzzled by his sudden severe aggression when it came to this meatbone...in and out of his kennel.

 

[Julie]

We are going to seek professional help ASAP. Aside from this video (and the barking at the gate guard), he's an angel. We can pull anything out of his mouth (treats, toys, balls, etc), touch him anywhere, play rough, etc and he NEVER growls or even looks like he might. The kids play with him all the time and he's so tolerant. He doesn't care about baths or put up a fight when I clip his nails. This is the first time in the 4 weeks that we've had him that he's shown any type of aggression. I'm not trying to show our puppy as a deadly terror, but he obviously needs some training.

We were absolutely puzzled by his sudden severe aggression when it came to this meatbone...in and out of his kennel.

Please don't take this as offensive, but I still am shocked about the behaviour of your pup. I have never seen an 11 week old pup have such aggressive behaviour. I mean what if your child was the one that grabbed the bone? Not to even mention the growling at the guards at the gate.
If you don't get some serious help with this pup, I believe you will have a unpredictable, vicious, dog living with your family. Even with professional help, I would be cautious of the dog around my kids. It may be lovable with toys and treats now, but when the pup matures he will get more protective over them as he is doing with the bone now.

I don't know maybe you can change the behaviour with professional help, but I think it will probably return later in life, in some form or the other.

I still wish you the best, and good luck! I know you are going to do everything possible for a good outcome. But I just want you to be aware this is not normal behaviour for such a young pup. And to take precautions as the pup matures. As DK mentioned, I also have serious misgivings about the temperment of your puppy.

Have you contacted the breeder about this problem? Maybe you should and ask about the parents temperments. And why they bred aggressive dogs?
Maybe you could get a refund and return the dog to the breeder, and get a dog that will be less dangerous for your family. I did not say this to be rude, but I have a feeling this will be a long hard road to haul, and since you do have children, you have to think of them first. I am a dog lover, but if I had this pup, it would not be living with my children if I continued to see this behaviour.
Again, I wish you the best.
Julie.

 

[doberkim]

julie, i really do have to agree with that. ive seen (and lived with) many types of aggression, and this just shocks me, coming from such a young puppy. personally after living with aggressive dogs, training them, working with them in shelters, i would personally never keep an 11 week old puppy that showed ThAT level of aggression. ESPECIALLY not with children in the house.


my biter is great too - until someone does something he doesnt want to do.

 

[Martoch]

Trust me, the kids will always come first.

This puppy was found abandoned in the woods by a friend of ours...he found it hiding under his truck upon returning from a hunt. The closest house was over 5 miles away and the puppy was determined to be 8 weeks by a vet at this point. We have no idea who it belonged to, how it was raised, or why it has this aggressiveness when it comes to a meatbone. I was just out there with him while he chewed on his rawhide bone and I pulled it out of his mouth at least 10 times with no problems at all. I reached in many times over without a tiny growl. I already showed the video to the kids (they were in school at the time) just to give them a heads up that Buster can and will bite.

 

[Rubylove]

Although this is pretty full-on, I have to admit that I really hope this dog can be changed. It is a difficult situation, and you have been given some excellent advice, and I hope against hope that he will become a calm puppy who's bones you can take off him whenever you please.

Good luck.

 

[Dizzy]

I was just watching the vid..

Are you sure he wasn't over reacting due to the stick/glove? It could have antagonised the situation. I have seen the gentlest dogs growl and snap at brooms because they don't like them/are scared of them.

Obviously something needs sorting..

 

[Martoch]

I'm sure he wasn't overly aggressive because of the stick/glove combo. When he first took the meatbone into his kennel, I reached in and gently pat/rubbed his back like always and he started growling. I used the normal calming words to try to reassure him, but they didn't work at all. I wanted to see how he would react if I reached a little further toward his head and his growls got louder as I got closer to the meatbone. They got REALLY loud when I touched the meatbone and he had the "I'm going to bite you" look on his face, so I didn't want to give him the chance. I put the glove on my hand and got the same reaction, but the glove doesn't cover my wrist and I didn't want to take a chance on a bite. So I figured the safe way to test him would be to put the same glove on a stick and reach in just as I was in the first place. Does that clear things up a little? It's not like I just started poking at him with a glove on a stick.

 

[bubbatd]

Dob and Julie... thoroughly agree !! A stray pup is nice to take and love... but you have no idea of the background. There could be a very bad mixture of aggressive genes from inter breeding. I hope you do the right thing.

 

[Martoch]

We're going to seek professional help today if possible. If the dog is too aggressive to be around our family, I would have no problems saying "bye bye Buster" even though I love dogs. It's my wife that would need convincing...she's already more attached than I ever thought she'd be since she's a cat lover.

 

[Martoch]

Just got off the phone with a long-time local trainer. She said that we need to be trained how to train the dog and learn the dos/don'ts of dog ownership. ...since most people enable their dogs to behave "badly", when in fact it's us that enable such behaviors.
She said that since the dog was abandoned and left to find food on his own in the wild, we should avoid giving him any animal by-products because there's a good chance he'll revert to his defensive animal instincts. She also agreed that simply dropping the meatbone for him to take was a bad decision because it gave him complete ownership of it; whereas holding it and letting him nibble would show him that we are the boss and he'll eat it when we let him.
She told me that a great way to teach him that he's the lowest rank in the family is to be on my knees and hold him firmly by the skin of his neck (like his mother would do if she were around) and make him lie down on his side while I touch all over him...and project a loud enough noise if he tries to resist or get up to remind him that I'm not done yet. Then have my wife do it as well...then let the kids touch him all over while we hold him. She also said to never let the dog play around the kids' heads at all and jump all over them while they're on the ground...which he currently does. What else, what else...oh yeah, he should only have 3 toys because if he has too many, it could be unclear to him which objects are his toys and which aren't.

She was very focused on having US do the right things to make sure the dog behaves, which I think is great. Her training consists of 4 Saturday 2-hour session for 4 straight weeks at $100. However, we can return to as many training classes as we want for no additional charge...whether he's 6 months, a year, etc. She even invited us to sit in on a few training classes before we make our decision. What do you guys think of that?

She had a strong opinion that this meatbone incident should not make us want to turn the dog in to a shelter. She mentioned that the age determination might not have been accurate because the teeth may have been smaller than normal if the dog was malnourished and calcium deficient.

 

[Molly_Moppet]

Hey Martoch, just a word of caution here. It's great that you are getting help for your pup, but i would be very cautious of a trainer that suggests doing an alpha roll. For one thing, in the wild dogs will only physically force another dog onto its back if they want to kill it. Submissive dogs just automatically roll on their back, no physical force at all. Imagine what it does to a dogs mind when we force it into a position that, to it, means death? And if your dogs is already naturally aggressive, this could be the trigger that forces it into a full on attack.
That said, the rest of your trainer's advice seems pretty sound to me. Good luck.