African Wild Dog, Anyone? (Genetics question)

[Aleron]

Oh, my mistake! You are absolutely correct and that was inaccurately phrased on my part. I was trying to distinguish between distinctly patterned Pandas and the more "speckled/ticked" Pandas, if anyone knows what I mean, LOL

For example, these dogs are lovely

They really do appear to be tri-color! I didn't think much of it until I saw other colors...than I realized that the "tri-colors" were just black and tans with white markings.

Sable Panda

Black Panda

I think probably the first pictures of them I saw were blanket back or bi-color GSDs, which definitely appear to be tri-color with the white markings. The B&T saddle patterned dogs look more like a "normal" GSD that was painted with white:

A genetics person once explained to me what they felt was going on with the Pandas but it was so long ago that I can't quite remember it. I think they are striking and their foundation seemed to be nice dogs but now it seems they are mostly bred for color and it seems they use show wGSDs with them.

 

[Shai]

*Labradors are all genetically black. "ee" causes the inability to produce black pigment in the coat, and the coat "defaults" to red. "Ee" would be black, carrying one copy of the recessive gene for this restriction, but the coat remains black.

...Except for the ones that are chocolate (a.k.a. brown, bb)?

Granted you don't normally see yellow labs that are genetically brown because the brown nose/skin pigment are considered undesireable in a yellow lab, but the point remains.

 

[Dekka]

I've seen chimerism in other animals, but this is a different phenomenon?

Chimerism was my first though. If they breed true then they can't be chimeric. Not that I know if they can. ETA, DNA tests for chimerism can be tricky. But the somatic mutation is interesting. I wonder what the mechanism for the mutation is.

 

[Shai]

A genetics person once explained to me what they felt was going on with the Pandas but it was so long ago that I can't quite remember it. I think they are striking and their foundation seemed to be nice dogs but now it seems they are mostly bred for color and it seems they use show wGSDs with them.

I always assumed it was some sort of Irish spotting type factor, though I've done no more than look into pictures. Is there reason to believe it's not?

 

[ravennr]

I've always admired Panda Shepherds, but never knew if they were a BYB scam or the real deal, since I never see them called German Shepherds by almost anyone.

I wouldn't mind owning one someday if I knew it were a legit, healthy animal.

 

[Shai]

Chimerism was my first though. If they breed true then they can't be chimeric. Not that I know if they can.

They don't breed true but it sounds like (via Laurelin) that they test for a single set of DNA whereas chimeras test as two genetically individual animals rolls into one.

 

[Laurelin]

I thought the Pandas had been proven to be a new mutation? I thought I read that somewhere but now I'm not sure where.

 

[Dekka]

I edited. The trick is that chimerism is really hard to detect. One woman had pretty much all one set of DNA but not her ovaries (and a few other bits) that caused no end of trouble when it turned out her kids where 'not' hers.

 

[Laurelin]

I edited. The trick is that chimerism is really hard to detect. One woman had pretty much all one set of DNA but not her ovaries (and a few other bits) that caused no end of trouble when it turned out her kids where 'not' hers.

I saw a tv segment on that. That's pretty wild.

 

[Aayden]

The lab in the first picture made my jaw drop, as did the first German Shepherd pic shown. GORGEOUS...If there was a way to breed those colors into a dog -drools- Oh god..

 

[Shai]

I edited. The trick is that chimerism is really hard to detect. One woman had pretty much all one set of DNA but not her ovaries (and a few other bits) that caused no end of trouble when it turned out her kids where 'not' hers.

Well true but in a case like this where you have different cells producing different coat colors, visually, wouldn't it make sense that if you test the skin cells producing each of the coat colors that if the animal were a chimera, the skin samples would show the two sets of DNA?

 

[ravennr]

Found this thread, might have some info
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=162528

 

[Dekka]

Well true but in a case like this where you have different cells producing different coat colors, visually, wouldn't it make sense that if you test the skin cells producing each of the coat colors that if the animal were a chimera, the skin samples would show the two sets of DNA?

It seems its not that simple. Though intuitively that should work.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

That's super cool looking, especially the dog in the first link

 

[SevenSins]

...Except for the ones that are chocolate (a.k.a. brown, bb)?

Granted you don't normally see yellow labs that are genetically brown because the brown nose/skin pigment are considered undesireable in a yellow lab, but the point remains.

Chocolate dogs are black also. ALL Labradors are black. Chocolates are genetically black dogs whose black pigmented has been modified to liver.

 

[JacksonsMom]

Oh, my mistake! You are absolutely correct and that was inaccurately phrased on my part. I was trying to distinguish between distinctly patterned Pandas and the more "speckled/ticked" Pandas, if anyone knows what I mean, LOL

For example, these dogs are lovely

(not so much the eyes in my personal opinion, I can't get used to blue eyes in GSDs)

OMG - want want want.

And that first Lab - AWESOME!

Never even heard of this.

 

[Gypsydals]

Mismarks happen occasionally in Dals. Mosaics are about half way down. And if you don't know what you are looking for it is quite easy to miss unless pointed out.

http://paisleydals.com/color.html

 

[Shai]

It seems its not that simple. Though intuitively that should work.

Interesting -- if nothing else this is making me want to study chimera lol

Chocolate dogs are black also. ALL Labradors are black. Chocolates are genetically black dogs whose black pigmented has been modified to liver.

Erm, well yeah by that argument all dogs are black, period.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

The first dog is a little busy to me, but I love this dog's look: http://trinitylabstexas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/2344823615_defb202858.jpg

I'd just like to see examples in other breeds.

I've seen chimerism in other animals, but this is a different phenomenon?

I genuinely want one of these. If I ever saw one I'd probably get it, seriously.

 

[Shai]

Mismarks happen occasionally in Dals. Mosaics are about half way down. And if you don't know what you are looking for it is quite easy to miss unless pointed out.

Okay Dals have some pretty amaz...tinct patterning. Thanks for sharing that :)