Advice

[McCheeseSteak]

Hey guys, I could use some advice/training tips.

I have one very docile, submissive dog who's not very social and about 6 years old. We just got another dog who's about 9 months old. Both are females and both are spayed.
Recently the young dog has been attacking our submissive dog. She doesn't do this all the time but I have been catching her staring at our submissive dog and every time she starts doing this, I'll give her a little squirt of water. She'll do this over and over and I'll squirt her over and over until at some point she just lunges after our submissive dog.

At first this appeared to playful but this has turned into attacks. The younger dogs hair on her back stands up and even squirting water in her face as she is about to attack does nothing. When this happens we seperate them with some loud noises and place her in her kennel.

Obviously this does not help our submissive dog's confidence around other dogs but she has not been hurt yet at all.

Our younger dog goes on a 2 1/2 mile run with me every evening so I believe she is getting enough exercise and attention.

This happens about once a night and I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. How am I to teach the younger dog not to attack our other dog?

You can probably get some additional information about my situation from my New Dog Thread.

 

[Bailey+Ralph]

I am not great with Training.

Did you try giving the younger one a Toy (or something) to take her attention off of the older one when she starts staring (before she lunges)?
Or putting her in another room for her to cool down a little?

 

[McCheeseSteak]

I am not great with Training.

Did you try giving the younger one a Toy (or something) to take her attention off of the older one when she starts staring (before she lunges)?
Or putting her in another room for her to cool down a little?

The new dog has alot of toys to play with. I have been trying to divert her attention every time she begins staring at our other dog. But at some point she lunges toward her. I really can't take my eyes off of her or she begins staring or she'll get up and begin walking back and forth in front of our other dog.

 

[Zoom]

From my limited view point, it sounds like your young dog is attempting to establish dominence over the other dog. Since the other dog is a submissive to begin with, you should let them work things out. However, your corrections are out of place and have started to cause problems, as you can see. What breed is your young dog? Border Collie? They stare, it's what they do. It's called "The Eye".

Put away the water bottle and PM Doberluv, Dr2Little and/or RedyreRottweilers for more in depth training advice.

 

[McCheeseSteak]

From my limited view point, it sounds like your young dog is attempting to establish dominence over the other dog. Since the other dog is a submissive to begin with, you should let them work things out. However, your corrections are out of place and have started to cause problems, as you can see. What breed is your young dog? Border Collie? They stare, it's what they do. It's called "The Eye".

Put away the water bottle and PM Doberluv, Dr2Little and/or RedyreRottweilers for more in depth training advice.

I'm not sure I believe in the "work things out" method. I've heard alot of people recommend that and I don't want one dog getting hurt. The aggressive dog is a Collie Mix but I am not sure if its a Border Collie or not.

 

[Zoom]

"work things out" does not mean "let dogs get hurt." You should always be ready to step in before things get violent, but let the dogs do most of the fine tuning. Most times it never moves beyond posturing and noise. The eyeing and stalking are posturing behaviors, and most likely would not have escalated to violence. It seems to me though, that the young dog did not understand why it was being thwarted and transferred that frustration to the submissive dog. Do some reading on alpha dogs and see if that information pertains to your situation at all.

 

[McCheeseSteak]

"work things out" does not mean "let dogs get hurt." You should always be ready to step in before things get violent, but let the dogs do most of the fine tuning. Most times it never moves beyond posturing and noise. The eyeing and stalking are posturing behaviors, and most likely would not have escalated to violence. It seems to me though, that the young dog did not understand why it was being thwarted and transferred that frustration to the submissive dog. Do some reading on alpha dogs and see if that information pertains to your situation at all.

I have kind of tried to let them work it out. I have let the younger dog sit closer and closer to our other dog and try to have them walk together and interact together. And while they can walk together with little problems, when are in the house and sitting together our younger dog will behave for about 20 min or so and then begin staring and immediately lunge at our other dog.

I've read a lot of stuff on Alpha dogs on different websites and message boards I have a pretty good idea about Alpha dogs and body language. I have no doubt that our younger dog is trying to assert her dominance over our other dog. But I cannot allow her to continue to be attacked but the younger dog.

 

[Doberluv]

When you punish using a squirt bottle, startle or otherwise associate the situation and the other dog with a rotten time, you're making your dog want to attack the other one even more. You can body block the pup by stepping into the space she's about to occupy (before she does) when she's getting too pushy toward the other dog. Get inbetween them. Distract the pushy one and give her an alternative behavior to engage in and reward. Interrupt that pushiness at the very first sign of tension the first muscle twitch in that direction. Don't wait until she's already going at it. Don't touch the dog with your hands to move her or that can be construed as petting and reward/approval. Just use your body. Don't say anything, don't get all exciteable and tense. Just confidently, calmly move the dog off the other one's space with your body. Then give the dog something else to do....sit/stay, down/stay, come. "good dog." Give a treat for compliance. If she goes back a second time to harrass the other dog, remove her to another room, isolate her from the group for about 3-4 minutes. Then try brining her out again. Repeat as many times as necessary. No anger, no emotion at all...just calmly lead her off with a leash. (always supervise when a leash is on)

She needs to let you take care of things instead of taking the "law" into her own hands. Be careful not to over do the reacting to her pushy behaviors unless, like with this, you have to. If she comes to you and wants to be petted, don't always respond. You be the one to call her over for a pat. I'd impliment some NILIF with this dog and start her on the road to understanding that you control her resources. She doesn't....which translates to your being the one who makes and enforces the rules. It is not up to her or the other dog to do so.

Does this happen mostly when you're around?

I would not hesitate to use an "eh-eh" before moving inbetween them. That can later have meaning ahead of time for the dog.

Be firm, insistant, but not loud or scary. Don't spray or throw things at your dog. Just be cool, slow movements, collected and very in charge.

When the dog, even for a second is calm and not looking like it's going to attack the other, use a marker word (or clicker, but you have to read up on that) and say, "yessss" and immediately give a treat. Let the dog know the difference, the contrast between the behaviors. When she is getting pushy, nothing comes of it because you are preventing it. (the behavior is self rewarding) So, prevent it. No payoff. BUT....when the dog is calm and exibiting behavior you like, she gets a fabulous reward, a high value treat. Soon, hopefully, the other dog will represent a good thing, not a bad thing to her. Everytime she is around the other dog and behaving, give her lots of little tiny treats. Associate the other dog AND her good behavior with good things. The more opportunities she has to succeed, the more reinforcements you build up in her "bank." This is what is needed to increase the probability of her continuing with the good behavior.

Of course, this will require constant supervision. When you can't be there, seperate them. Also, if there's someone else who can walk one of the dogs, a nice long walk on leashes together can be most helpful. They're doing something they both like as a group and their attentions are tending to be more on other things.

 

[McCheeseSteak]

Great tips and advice Doberluv.. Thanks

This always happens when we're around. We do seperate them during the day when were not home.

I know that as soon as she starts staring at my other dog that she getting ready to make her move. Sometimes the hair on her back stands up and I know thats a clear cut sign that her demeanor has changed.

I tried using snaps at first to divert her attention every time she began staring but after about a minute she begins staring again. And every time I'll snap my fingers to divert her attention. Last night I allowed her to sit next to my other dog and after about 20 minutes of minding her own business she lunged a the other dog and a small fight ensued.

She gets a fair amount of exercise when I get home and I do walk them together.