A humane slaughter, define it.

AgilityPup

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#61
Oh my god, I wish I could CLOSE THIS THRED!!! Its gonig over board... some of you DO INDEED know about it, BUT SOME HAVE NO CLUE! I am not gonig to point fingers or anything..... But for frigg sake, MOSt of you ned to grow up, I dont care how old you ACTUALY are, YOU ARE BEING STUPID! Most of you any ways, some are talking from personal expereince! but some are talking from the net, or books..... Anyways.....

I dont even care what all of you do. I am 14, and i would have left this thred a looooonnnnnnngggggg time ago, Just leave it be.... :) Have a nice day everybody.....Stay safe!
 

Muggie'sMum

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#62
Chul, I thought you said you were 21 in another post???

It's obvious that it's going to take time for you and no convincing, and that's alright. Did I ever say I had experienced atrocities in my life that were greater than yours? No, but I live realistically, always have. There are idealistic ways to think and then there are realistic.

And when have you ever NOT put your two cents in? lmao!

AP, you know me, can't walk away from a good discussion! ;)
 

silverpawz

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#63
Somehow this line is all that I can't help myself from responding to:

I'm from Newfoundland and of course the awful place that kills baby seals.. In my mind clubbing a seal on the head and killing them with one blow is humane.. messy and gruesome yes.. but still humane..
So clubbing seals is OKAY? Please tell me that's not what you we're trying to say...
 
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#65
Don''t some slaughter houses use high voltage to slaughter instead of the bolt? I believe that is what my dad explained to me when the company he works for (AI of cattle) decided to expand a bit and open up their own slaughter house. Anyone know anything about high voltage being used?
 

Squidbert

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#66
Somehow this line is all that I can't help myself from responding to:



So clubbing seals is OKAY? Please tell me that's not what you we're trying to say...
If done properly the seals die after that one blow.. so yes I do think it's humane.. I personally would not be able to club anything.. but if the animal dies with the first blow it is not suffering.. and in that case I think it is humane.. just because something is messy does not necessarily mean it is inhumane.. just because there is less blood it does not mean it is humane.. strangling something would be much less messy.. easier on the eyes.. but more humane? I don't think so..
I'm not saying whether or not I agree with the seal hunt.. I have a hard time deciding that for myself.. but with regards to the way they are killed? If there is some way to regulate that it is done properly and the seals don't suffer.. I don't see a problem with it at all..
 

silverpawz

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#67
I'm really suprised at your response. I honestly don't understand how anyone can even have a doubt over weather hunting and clubbing seals is wrong. They're killing them for their pelt. That's it. How in the world is that okay?

I don't care how humane they claim to be when they do it, it's still killing an animal for it's fur. Totally un-nessessary.
 

Squidbert

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#68
I'm really suprised at your response. I honestly don't understand how anyone can even have a doubt over weather hunting and clubbing seals is wrong. They're killing them for their pelt. That's it. How in the world is that okay?

I don't care how humane they claim to be when they do it, it's still killing an animal for it's fur. Totally un-nessessary.
They aren't only killing the animals for the pelt.. they are also killing for population control.. I would not agree with the seal hunt unless they are also killing for population control.. I think that should be the biggest deciding factor.. which is why I'm not sure whether or not I agree with the seal hunt..
If they need to kill for population control they may as well use the animal.. and they do not only use the pelts.. there is a growing market for seal oil capsules and for meat as well.. not only on an individual level.. seals also feed many many families here.. I grew up eating seal meat.. if I didn't have that I really don't know where much of our meat would have come from..
And this isn't about whether killing an animal for whatever reason is wrong or right.. it is about what a humane death is.. which is what I was stating in my last post..
 

smkie

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#69
point is the method was the topic not the subject that is being killed. I found a squirrel, a youngster that had been hit by a car and his back was broken. Yup i hit him in the head for i felt it more "humane" then to be left to die in the middle of the road. I can still hear him cry in my mind and it made me cry. Still being hit squarely on the noggin is a lot better way to die then prone on the road while the cars cross over before the right one does the job. You all need to keep your field and stay to the topic if your going to debate, when you stray it gets pointless. The point of the bolt method of dying is that it doesn't always work correctly and has to be done more then once. THat is inhumane.

If you want to start a thread about population control vs fun and profit:rolleyes: ,,, arrrgh but please don't.:yikes:
 
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#70
Chul, I thought you said you were 21 in another post???

It's obvious that it's going to take time for you and no convincing, and that's alright. Did I ever say I had experienced atrocities in my life that were greater than yours? No, but I live realistically, always have. There are idealistic ways to think and then there are realistic.

And when have you ever NOT put your two cents in? lmao!

AP, you know me, can't walk away from a good discussion! ;)
And same here, can't walk away from good discussion. I am 21, going to be 22 on sunday, when I was typing that post i was going fast because I was agitated.Please check profile, it happens, born on a wonderful year with my two cousins same hospital same day lol. And whatever you tell me will not convince me, I am entitled to my own opinions, sorry, i'm a stubborn bi*ch, I said it so you did'nt have to hehe.
 

MomOf7

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#71
Im going to stir the pot a little with this view. But its my view and my opinion.

I see meat just like I see my vegetables. It was grown to be eaten. We grew it for that reason. FOOD. Food is food.
I dont like some of the places and situations the animals are in thats why I get my meat from a local butcher. He gets the animals from small farm owners. Grain fed, no preservatives. YUM!
 

Muggie'sMum

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#72
I see meat just like I see my vegetables. It was grown to be eaten. We grew it for that reason. FOOD. Food is food.
I dont like some of the places and situations the animals are in thats why I get my meat from a local butcher. He gets the animals from small farm owners. Grain fed, no preservatives. YUM!
Oh my GAWD.

You're HORRIBLE! :yikes:

Hehe, just kidding.
 

joce

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#73
I've actually had people ask why they cna't jsut put cows to sleep:rolleyes: I'd love to feed them those cows!

Around here you know what slughter houses to send your animlas to. there are good ones and bad ones and I'm sure even the good ones make mistakes but its something that needs done.

the one thing that will never bother me-and it almost makes me feel bad-is not minding eating kfc. I've watched all the peta junk and everyhtign elses and there are still just icky chickens to me. thats one animal I could raise and kill myself and probally not feel horrible. I get attached to cows and meat bunnies and the cute little pigs but chickens just make my skin crawl.

I know around here you cna barely drive anywere without almost hitting a deer or seeing a couple dead ones on the side of the road. they crash through windows and starve slowly in the winter but the bleeding hearts throw a fit when they talk about thinning the herds down. I've heard in places its like that with the seals to but I really have no info on that.

On another forum a girl was upset becuase someone hit a deer in front of her house and didn't go into the woods to check on the deer:rolleyes:
 
M

Madilyn's Mom

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#74
Wow...just wow.

You're using the Meatrix to back up your argument?
Umm....what argument? I'm not going to waste more than a minute of my time on your apparent attempt to start a pointless argument. Now you're getting upset when someone mentions that slaughterhouse workers are paid low wages and endure horrible and dangerous working conditions? In case you need to read my post again, that's all I was pointing out. And as for linking the 'Meatrix II 1/2' clip....uh, that was just suggested if anyone wanted to view it. What anyone makes of it is up to them. You need to chill..
 

Muggie'sMum

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#75
We have issues with deer here too. :p On my birthday in September, having only had my license for a few months (not because I wasn't old enough but because I had put it off), I was in the process of congratulating myself for not having hit anything yet, being able to see deer and moose extraordinarily well in the ditches, etc... out of nowhere flies a yearling right under the bumper of my truck - killed him dead on impact, thank God. I was horrified, I couldn't even drive the rest of the way home, cried my eyes out, had to have my father check on him and then drive me to the rangers so they could come and pick him up. :p Moose are a regular occurence too... I don't feel bad during hunting season. They're horrifically dangerous, I just wish our moose hunting season was a bit longer!!!

In some states, it's common to pick up your roadkill and take it home!
 

smkie

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#76
MY mama use to tell me the story of her field trip as a child in gradeschool.
They took them to the slaughter house. CAn you imagine that being done today? I wonder what the next generation would do if exposed to such horror at a young age. AT the same time i read a great deal. And what i like to read best is stories of real people's lives, especially farmers. I have run across it again and again how sad everyone is the day the hog had to be slaughtered. How the family would not allow light to be made of the event. I wish i could remember the book that said "but a hog went to far and fed so many".....ON that farm, in that story, the hog was killed quickly and effienciantly, not on an assembly line. You hang around a nursing home in Smithville Mo and you will hear many such tales. AS far as i can tell that was what this thread was about, the humane way for mass slaughter and why we haven't or have achieved it. I wish i could know my ham was served up with such respect to the pig as in most my stories that i have read, unforunatly i also read the "humane" magazines that tell the true story of suffocation, of injured animals that remain that way, dragged by chains to their death. What to me is even worse is the poor Mo. hogs that spend their lives on a grate over a hole that is filled with their urine and feces from the piglet stage to the day the go to die, only being emptied upon their exit. THe report on npr i heard about this said that children of these farmers and area neighbors are having terrible ashtma they believe due to the amount of bacteria in the air. If it is that bad then how awful it must be to live in the stink. A hog being an animal of great intelligence and even if he wasn't does he deserve to live over an outhouse? I saw the cattle stockyards in pens in Arizona as a child. I have never gotten over the fattening pens where they coudlnt' even turn around...or about reading the debeaking of chickens and turkeys. So for me it isn't just the "humane" death but the inhumane life as well, and free range isn't all it is suppose to be either. With that said, i am hungry so i guess i will go put two packages of carnation breakfast into a glass of milk and say an apology to the cow that gave it to me. THere is no easy answers. A thread like this ought to help stir the minds though of many that could possibly come up with a more humane way to die, there are many creative people in this world but no one like to look at an ugly topic that makes everyone feel uncomfortable. Much better to stray away to sidelines so eventually we can make ourselves feel better about our decisions.
 

joce

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#77
I was in the FFA we did go to the slaughterhouse for a school trip:D

My grandma is full of story on how they used to kill and prepare there animals and that grosses me out. Slughterhouses are definatly better than there way.

Anyone remember the story a few years ago were people were finding chunks of metal in ther emeat and it ended up being some small farm was shooting the cattle to kill them but the bullets broke up and traveled around the body and got into the processed meat? I cna't find an article on it anymore.

And if you knew the first thing about slaughtering the meatrix things are pretty laughable. There points are all ridiculus and short of euthanizing an animal -which would kill us-nothing would make them happy.

I read an article in the paper about how the marine medics trained. they get a live pig and it gets shot burned shot again and they have to try to keep it alive. this guy siad his pig lived fifteen hours,that kinda made me sad. But in contrast to what the article was about(his friends got shot in the head and apparnetly isn't going to make it) its soemthign that hopefully helped his training at least.
 

GlassOnion

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#78
I'm getting upset? Hardly. I find the thread quite laughable really.


Slaughter house workers paid low wages? Ok? So? It's not exactly a hard job.

Dangerous? So is construction. So is weaving. So is paper printing. What's your point? There's tons of dangerous jobs out there. And as long as you dont' stick your hand in a skin puller or get stuck under a carcass you'll be fine.

The point of the bolt method of dying is that it doesn't always work correctly and has to be done more then once. THat is inhumane.
Well, accidents happen. There's no way to guarantee anything will work 100% of the time short of a bullet to the brain but the industry has been banned from doing that because it's 'inhumane'. :rolleyes:

Or you could do a chemical euthanasia but that makes the meat worthless as you'd be putting people to sleep as well.
 

Dixie

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#79
I'll poke my head into the conversation----

Ive not worked at a large animal slaughterhouse but I have worked for a live hange poultry processing plant. Want to know the WHOLE process?? (and yes I have worked in every dept from live hang to pack out)

The chicken as you know are grown in commercial houses which house roughly 5,000 chickens per house. these houses are 2-3 football fields long and about as wide as a football field, so they are long skinny houses. You have two types of chicken growers, you have broilers and hatchers.

With broilers the eggs are raised in a commercial hatchery with the utmost sanitary conditions when they are hatched they are taken on a chicken bus in crates and taken to a farm where they are placed in the chicken house. For 6-8 weeks the farmer feeds the chickens to company specifications, and every round the houses are inspected by the USDA to make sure the house is fit to raise chickens in. After 6-8 weeks the larger chicken trucks with the cages are brought in and they catch chickens, it takes a crew of 10-12 people (truck drivers included) to catch them and it is an all-night task.

Then the chickens must be kept a certain degree. When they arrive at the processing plant, they are backed up to a large row of fans that maintains a certain air temperature while the chickens wait to be offloaded and put on the line. If the chicken gets out or is dead they remove it before it ever hits the line. The chickens that are alive and loose, cannot go on the line because of possible contamination issues. There is a small flock of chickens that hang out around the chicken plant because 2-3 from each shift gets loose.

Now once they are in the building they are live hung upside down by their feet, now of course the chickens are flopping as chickens do, they go through a long tube that when they enter, the cross a high voltage electrical wire that kills them instantaneously. While the chickens are going in the shock tube, an audio recording of Muslim blessings are played over and over. This is a requirement of company customers, the chickens have to be blessed before they are killed. It sounds ridiculous but it is true.

Once they come out of the shock tube, they are defeathered, heads are cut off then they go into evisceration where all of the guts are removed. This is done mechanically and manually to ensure that all the guts are removed. If guts are found in the production area of the plant USDA shuts the place down.

Once they are gutted - they go into the chiller where they remain for up to two hours. If the chickens are too warm they cannot run them on the line in production.

when they come out of the chiller they come down a chute and into a bin where a line loader (a la me) would load them onto cones to start the processing part. First the drums were cut off, then the wings, then the breast, then the thighs, and then the tenders. At the end of the line there is a scraper that scrapes left over meat off the carcass into a bin that goes to pieces. The pieces are then boxed, frozen, and then shipped to dog food companies (I do believe we shipped to Eukanuba at one point)

Now what happens to each part??

They go on to a belt after being processed and sent to pack out where they were weighed, bagged, boxed, and labelled. They had to be inspected 3 times, once by QA, once by USDA and once by HACCP. (we called it hasip). If it didnt get by QA it sure as heck was not going to get by the other two.

The breast fronts are put on a belt and sent to the breast table where we do the following types of cuts (named for the company ordering it)
Carolina (the shoulder ball was removed) bones removed and cut in half
butterfly - no cutting but removed bones
Fat-Free, all fat and bones removed - this is what you eat when you order chicken from Applebees.
4-10 - butterflys bones removed but leave the shoulder ball

Then there are the thighs which were sent to a thigh table, inspected for bones, fat removed, then sent to pack out

the tenders had the tendons cut off and boxed. This was by far the easiet job but the most tedious.

The drumsticks were sent directly to pack out as there is no need to further process them.

and thats the story of a poultry production plant. I dont think any part of it was inhumane and trust me if there is any inkling of being inhumane USDA shuts the plant down for inspection (there is a USDA office on site of this facility) As a matter of fact plant employees and USDA workers are not allowed to talk to each other. They may stand side by side on the line but they cannot converse. This is because they dont want the employees bribing the USDA or the USDA bribing the employees. This is company policy not USDAs.

I feel that my local chicken plant is humane.

And yes I am very much a carnivore and animal lover. :D
 

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