A few basic training questions...

[higgledypiggledy]

Hey guys! This is my first post. I just recently(less than a week ago) adopted a cocker spaniel mix from the pound. She's 3 years old and very friendly- can get very hyper, but can also curl up and fall asleep on your lap. ^^ Anyway, I'm hoping to eventually take her fun places like dog beach and the park. I'd like to be able to take her off leash without worrying about her running away. What's the best way to teach a dog to come when they're off leash and distracted? Although she comes in the house, when she's busy exploring outside she will run away from me or ignore me and sometimes the only way to get her back is to say something to get her attention, and then run away form her(she doesn't like to be left alone and likes to chase us). Sometimes she's so busy exploring that she won't even eat the treats I offer her. hehe. Oh and how should I teach her not to whine and bark everytime a family member leaves the house without her? Wow, not sure how I managed to write this much....

 

[Doberluv]

Welcome! Congrats on your new pup. She sounds cute.

There are lots and lots of threads here about that very thing. I suggest you do a search and look through the training and puppy forums.

There are so many tips that to re-write would be very time consuming. If you cannot find those threads, write back.

As far as a little overview without much detail, a few tips:

Never give a command you can't enforce. Practice with a long line after practicing in the house. Start without distractions and work up.

Try enticing the dog to come before using any pulling on the long line. Run the other way, making silly, fun noises, patting your thigh. But don't say the word, "come" UNLESS you can enforce it or make absolutely certain that the dog is indeed coming. When the dog is just a few inches from you as it's coming, then give the command. Do this until the dog is reliable....long time. For the longest time, I didn't dare (and I'm still careful) use the word, "come" until the dog was very obviously coming...very close to me unless I had a long line or leash attached. If you cannot get the dog to come when given a command, and it ignores you, you've lost it right there. Same with any command. Only give a command once.

Make coming to you the most marvelous thing the dog could ever want to do. It needs to be better than whatever he is otherwise interested in.

Don't end the fun when the dog comes to you...continue it. If the dog is off leash, don't call it to come, snap on the leash and end all the fun. Instead, snap on the leash, walk for just a few steps and release the dog again for some more off leash fun. Repeat a few times. Then when you do have to go inside and the romping is over, make sure it's still a pretty good thing to come back in...maybe not playing, but maybe a treat or some nice, quiet belly rub... Something so the dog doesn't dread coming back to you.

Never ever punish a dog for anything when it comes to you. It's reward all the way every time the dog comes near to you.

Practice, practice, practice until it becomes a habit to come to you....as if there is just no other option but to come. There is simply no other better thing to do. Practice in a safe, fenced place if you are not having the dog on a long line.

Make sure...never forget to reward and praise your dog a lot for every behavior you like. It has to be worth his while to comply to get a good, reliable response. Make sure your timing is good. Let your dog know what it is he's doing you like right at the moment he's doing it and reward right away.

 

[Irish]

Welcome Higgle . . .

Doberluv, I just gotta say - I love your posts! I learn so much from you about dog training. You know a lot AND know how to express yourself in a way that is easily understandable.

 

[higgledypiggledy]

Thanx! I'll look up those threads. I think the hardest part is that my family is always doing things like yelling come when the dog's playing fetch and the dog never does come, and saying down instead of off when the dog jumps up. So of course that will un-do some of my training but oh well. Do u think Chica can learn that she must obey one person, and that it's ok ignore other people? lol

 

[Brattina88]

Do u think Chica can learn that she must obey one person, and that it's ok ignore other people? lol

I'm not sure it is a very good idea, but it is possible. My Cocker Spaniel, Maddie, has done just that. She listens to me, and only me. I just worry that there will come a time when she will be in a situation where she will need to listen to someone else, and I can't be positive she will. When someone else gives her a command you can see her considering if she should or shouldn't. Its almost as if she can't hear voices other than my own when she is distracted

 

[Doberluv]

Thanks Irish. I hope some of that helps.

Yup....when people are yelling at the dog to come, of course, he's not going to be really eager to obey. It's much easier if the dog is convinced that coming will equal a very special treat and some really good times.

It's quite normal for dogs to latch onto their main care giver and that is the person that they will tend to obey the most, their leader, the one they look up to...some breeds more than others.

My Doberman may or may not sit for someone else. If I'm standing right there, he will. But my Dad tells him something in a very deep, stern sounding voice (he thinks that's the way you have to relate to a dog...grrrr) and Lyric almost looks freaked, like..."gee wiz. What did I do?" He backs off like...."OMG!" Lyric is very sensative. So, I have to tell my Dad to quiet his voice. LOL. (I sound like the parent) Of course, I can use a pretty stern voice at certain times and Lyric doesn't freak because he knows me so well and trusts me. He just knows that I really am serious at certain times when I need immediate compliance...when it's a matter of life or death. lol.

But to help him socialize with kids, because he is a wee bit leery of them, I have a kid hold a treat and tell them to tell Lyric to sit and then give the treat. I'm standing right there (and can reinforce it if needed) and Lyric will sit for them. It helps Lyric understand that even kids need to be looked up to because they're human, and not prey. LOL.

I missed this:

Oh and how should I teach her not to whine and bark everytime a family member leaves the house without her?

Does she do this when there is still a family member in the house? Or when everyone goes away? It's pretty normal to have a degree of seperation anxiety. The best thing is to not make a fuss over her, not inadvertantly reward that behavior by attending to her. You could give her a toy that she doesn't get to have at any other time....so it's more special and interesting. A Kong toy stuffed with peanut butter and frozen (so it lasts longer) is fun for a dog and will keep them occupied for a while. You could play some music or leave the TV on. Sometimes that helps. You could practice leaving and coming right back in after a minute or so. Repeat a bunch of times so she understands that just because you leave doesn't mean you're never coming back. Keep coming and going low key....don't make a big deal out of it or pay too much attention to her. It still might not completely ease her mind because simply put, dogs don't really love being alone, but they have to be sometimes and they just need to get use to it. Your dog hasn't been with you very long and so is probably a little unsure of how things are going to be. I think with some time, she'll get much more confident and secure feeling.

If this is not seperation anxiety, but just that she wants to go for a ride in the car or doesn't want to miss out on the fun, it's still pretty much the same thing. Don't pay attention to her because that rewards that behavior. If you're still in the house and she does this because someone is leaving, you can try distracting her, asking for a few obedience skills....give her something else to do and reward for that. But don't coddle her when she's whining.

Try to get your family members to be consistant and do what you're doing, use the same commands. Tell them it's very important so not to confuse the dog. If they want a nicer companion, tell them they need to help you out that way.

Good luck!

 

[higgledypiggledy]

Usually there's always at least one person in the house 24/7, since my mom doesn't work. Chica cries if I so much as go to the bathroom without her. lol. And when she barks someone usually calls her name or tells her its okay because that does distract her momentarily. Or my sister will look at me and say, It's your dog, you make her stop. Is it okay to squirt her once with a squirt gun when she barks? It's not like we're neglecting her! Thanks somuch for the help!

P.S.- What kinds of people food are ok for dogs to eat? Pieces of chicken, ham, bread? My dog will not pay any attention to dog treats when we're outside and she wants to go explore, but she would do ANYTHING to get a piece of my cold pizza.

 

[skyhigh]

Little square cubes of polony, tiny bit of cheese(not to much).

 

[Doberluv]

When she whines and barks and acts like the drama queen when you leave the room, everyone should ignore her completely...not a look, not a word, nothing. Stick to your guns. Any attention is reward for her behavior. Some dogs think you're playing when you squirt them...if they happen to like water, so that's a reward. Some dogs would be frightened and that would be one more notch of distrust of you. So, IMO, complete and absolute ignoring is the way to go. It will take some time till she learns for sure and gives up the notion that she might get a response, since she always has before, so stay with it and be consistant...everyone in the family. Remember: any attention, neg. or pos. is a payoff and will increase the liklihood of repeating the behavior. (unless it's violently harsh and we don't want to treat a dog like that)

I'd skip the pizza and the bread, but real meat makes a great training treat. Or low fat mozzerella cheese or any white cheese. (tiny, pea sized pieces) Also you can make homemade doggie treats that are hard for any dog to pass up. Here's a recipie I use because it's so easy.

1 Lb (aprox. doesn't matter) of raw chicken livers. Puree in a blender with one egg.
Mix in bowl that gross stuff with 2 cups of flour.
Pour into an 8x8 greased baking dish and bake for about 30 minutes at 350 degrees....or until sides pull away from edge of pan.
Cut into very tiny pieces, as small as you can and cool. (training treats should be very small...pea sized, because you use a lot and you don't want your dog to get fat, plus you want them to hurry up and chew it up so they're not too distracted)
You can freeze some in baggies to use later.

 

[higgledypiggledy]

Ok thanx- I'll stick to meat treats and I'll have a talk with my family about the barking thing. Hopefully they'll listen and not just do what they think is best because they're the parents.

I was reading in a book a training method for teaching the dog 'quiet' and 'speak' but there's no way I'm going to use it because it seems it would only make the dog much worse and confused? It said to get your dog in a situation where it would bark, then reward it when it does and give the command 'speak'. When it understands 'speak' then you say 'quiet' when it starts barking and give it a treat when it does or say 'no' if it doesn't. This is from the ASPCA training book, so I thought they'd know more or less what they were talking about, but I don't see how this could possibly work.

 

[Doberluv]

Sometimes it actually does help to teach a behavior that you don't want performed without asking for it, on command. For instance, jumping. We don't want a dog jumping up on us when we're not ready. He might knock us down or scratch us and it's just horrible manners to go around jumping up on people. BUT....You can teach it the way you read. You pat your chest and coax the dog to jump up, then reward. Repeat with your hands coaxing. Then.....add a command, "jump up" or whatever. (It's always easiest to get the behavior first, then add a command because they don't know what the word means anyhow before the behavior, so asking them to have two things in their heads is harder than just showing the behavior to them first) So, then you say "jump up" each time you show them what you want with your hand motion...patting your chest...coaxing. There. They have learned the command to jump and to jump up when asked. Because they've learned it now, as a command, just like sit, down, stay, come, you can teach them NOT to jump without the command. They've been getting a treat and praise when they've been given the command to jump and they performed that trick. Now when they jump WITHOUT being asked, you turn and ignore them...no treat, no payoff...the behavior will extinguish if you give no attention for it. Then you turn back to the dog and maybe ask for a sit, reward.... a down, reward... jump up, reward. You have now shown them the difference between doing something on command and not doing it when not asked. The contrast between the taught act and the undesireable unasked for behavior is more apparent to them.

You can do the same thing with anything. Some dogs paw at you with their foot. (Dobermans are very paw oriented) Well, I don't like that when I'm in shorts. Ouch. So, I teach the dog to shake. When he gives a paw but I didn't ask for a shake, I ignore him or walk away. Soon that behavior goes away because nothing good came of it...as opposed to getting rewarded for shaking on command. He sees the contrast.

Does that make any sense?

 

[bridey_01]

Of course it makes sense, good post! Putting a behaviour on cue is a good way to actually extinguish it. I read once of a ladies border collie that would grab the doormat and drag it around the floor. She put it on cue, then simply never cued it! The only thing this doesn't work for however is barking. Dogs will still spontanesouly bark, if only to hear their own voices.

 

[Doberluv]

Thanks Bridey. That's a good one. Lyric use to do that when he was a puppy too. In fact, he tore up one door mat when I wasn't watching him very well. All I did was mutter and swear under my breath..."**** dog." LOL. (I can be lazy at times.)

The only thing this doesn't work for however is barking. Dogs will still spontanesouly bark, if only to hear their own voices.

LOL. They must think they've got some kind of Pavarati, tenor beauty in their voices and that alone is their's and everybody else's payoff. They don't need any other reward but the heavenly music to their ears.

No, but seriously actually, since barking is how they communicate (besides liking to make music) and that's like asking a teenage valley girl not to talk on the phone. But we can teach them "enough." (albeit, not easily.)

 

[bridey_01]

Yes, we can. I have to teach my kelpie enough, she's nuts about the parrots! Funny thing is, I was told collies can be "nervous and barky". I've heard Azlan bark (in three months) about ten times. Nervous? He pops balloons with his teeth and loves it! He can "chill" for about ten hours a day! He never asks for much attention, instead he goes to the water bowl and "digs" it. Maybe he's not a typical collie.