5 year old girl killed by Pit Bull

[doberkim]

Bottom line is that many Pits are D/A because that has been passed down via their breeding. Just like hounds like to track, and pointers like to hunt and herding dogs like to herd, Pitts like to attack....... You can talk and talk and talk, but many Pitts have that knee jerk reaction to other dogs. I know it, otherr dog owners know it, the victims and the dogs that have been attacked know it, the press knows it and a good portion of the public knows it. Boarding places know it because they ask if you have a PB, and if so, they won't accept your dog for boarding. All the denial in the world doesn't change this .

Coupled with this, is that this breed does a horrendous amount of damage to it's victim due to it's strength, which makes it a first choice for people like drug dealers and gang memebers to acquire. It is like an accident waiting to happen. I am not talking about bans now, what I am talking about is I am getting sick and tired of having to adjust my life and where I walk my dog, because these potentially lethal weapons are walking around streets and parks where people are just trying to walk their dogs in peace. That really ****** me off!!!!!!

and im getting tired of having to read your drivel on all these threads, that really pisses me off, too!

your end result is that if people cannot handle the responsibility of something, we should ban it because it can POTENTIALLY be misused.

Rather than push for individual responsibility, let's just use government and rules to take away our rights.

Sounds like a good plan, right? Let me know where we send our suggestions on what to ban, so I can be safe.

 

[doberkim]

I totally do not believe that BSL works or will ever work. Prevention is the key, prevention of bybs, prevention of puppy mills, prevention of irresponsible owners.
Doberman groups have worked hard to produce dobermans with good temperament as well as good health. They have worked hard to educate why it is important to get your puppy from reputable breeders. They have worked hard in training and earning CGC (canine good citizen titles) to show people how a well bred & trained doberman can be.
People who love bullies need to quit singing the same old song and dance of "don't blame the breed" and show people why they shouldn't be blamed.
Before it is too late.

Ok, thats bullshit.

First off, "top breeders" in the breed have been quoted as stating that they LIKe a "golden retriever" in a doberman body, and they feel that the breeds te mperament SHOULD be changed so it can be owned by everyone - and that is NOT what the doberman should be.

CGC's mean NOTHING in the overall scheme - ANY DOG can be trained to pass a CGC, it is not a true show of temperament or anything else.

Dobermans are just LUCKY that its not our breed right now - it was 20-30 years ago, and its pits now. Dobermans were bred TO BE HUMAN AGGRESSIVE ! Dobermans were bred to be able to specifically take down someone if the threat was present (one of the few breeds ever designed specifically to attack a human). The complaints of many people who appreciate the WORKING nature of the breed is that many breeders have bred the sharpness OUT of the breed.

The fact remains that not every breed can and SHOULD be owned by just about anyone - and the answer isn't to change the temperament of the breed. Just because someone cannot handle the energy, the drive, the determination, the DA, etc - don't change the BREED to make it easier on people - work on encouraging responsibility and safe placements with the dogs, work on education. The answer isn't to change my breed so more idiots can own it.

 

[Laurelin]

I don't understand the logic of these arguments. It seems obvious to me.

A dog is 100% the responsibility of humans. Owners are responsible for all dogs' acts. Like my mother says, dogs are like babies, they don't know any better and cannot take care of themselves. As an owner you have to make sure your dog is in control and safe- it's your job. It's your responsiblity to feed them, take care of their health, make sure they're happy, and make sure they're safe. It'd be the owner's fault if the dog was loose and ran in the street and got hit, why is this different? Once again, the owner wasn't supervising.

No one claims that pit bulls don't ever attack people. It's obvious that it happens, but it happens in such a small proportion, is it fair to persecute the majority for some idiots that shouldn't have dogs? Obviously some pits have aggression issues, but that all comes down to human error. Pits shouldn't be human aggressive, if they are then it's either bad breeding or bad training and socialization or a combination of both. Whatever went wrong is still the human's fault, though, as I said humans are responsible for all their dog's actions. We should be focused on supporting the people who are breeding and owning pits that know what they're doing and are are doing it right so hopefully this breed will start to not be looked down upon as much because of the reputation it has gained thanks to said idiots that shouldn't have dogs.

Besides, if you're worried about dog bites, let's ban all breeds that have ever bitten people, because they must be dangerous. Then there probably wouldn't be any dogs left. You don't have to be a 'pit bull person' to want to fight BSL. Why wait until it affects your breed?

 

[doberkim]

And as to the "titled" dogs once more..............MOST people who show their dogs do not OWN them outright, they are CO-OWNED by the breeder until they are titled and/or breed and give a puppy back to the original owner, which is normally in the contract of a good breeder. So, since the name of the original breeder is going to be on the ownership record until the dog is bred, and said breeder must obvioulsy have a breeders license, this would not even be a question in most cases. At which time the dog becomes solely yours, you would need to A) get a breeders license or B) spay or neuter.

I am not sure how it goes for sporting dogs, but they do not need to be "intact" to be compete anyway, so it would be up to the owner if he/she wanted to go for a breeders license or not.

just for the record, i am not sure where this info is coming from, but MOST people don't co-own their dogs, most are sold them outright. MOST responsible breeders dont ask for a puppy back.


And interestingly enough, since I don't have a problem admitting I lived with and owned a HA dog that sent someone to the hospital - this dog ALSO had a CGC and was actually used by my dog training club as the "friendly dog" for other dogs CGC tests.

 

[smkie]

no 5 year old should be alone period. That is so terribly terribly sad.

 

[ACooper]

Originally Posted by ACooper
I totally do not believe that BSL works or will ever work. Prevention is the key, prevention of bybs, prevention of puppy mills, prevention of irresponsible owners.
Doberman groups have worked hard to produce dobermans with good temperament as well as good health. They have worked hard to educate why it is important to get your puppy from reputable breeders. They have worked hard in training and earning CGC (canine good citizen titles) to show people how a well bred & trained doberman can be.
People who love bullies need to quit singing the same old song and dance of "don't blame the breed" and show people why they shouldn't be blamed.
Before it is too late.

Ok, thats bullshit.

First off, "top breeders" in the breed have been quoted as stating that they LIKe a "golden retriever" in a doberman body, and they feel that the breeds te mperament SHOULD be changed so it can be owned by everyone - and that is NOT what the doberman should be.

CGC's mean NOTHING in the overall scheme - ANY DOG can be trained to pass a CGC, it is not a true show of temperament or anything else.

Dobermans are just LUCKY that its not our breed right now - it was 20-30 years ago, and its pits now. Dobermans were bred TO BE HUMAN AGGRESSIVE ! Dobermans were bred to be able to specifically take down someone if the threat was present (one of the few breeds ever designed specifically to attack a human). The complaints of many people who appreciate the WORKING nature of the breed is that many breeders have bred the sharpness OUT of the breed.

The fact remains that not every breed can and SHOULD be owned by just about anyone - and the answer isn't to change the temperament of the breed. Just because someone cannot handle the energy, the drive, the determination, the DA, etc - don't change the BREED to make it easier on people - work on encouraging responsibility and safe placements with the dogs, work on education. The answer isn't to change my breed so more idiots can own it.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that my statement was bullshit, and quite frankly there is no need to be so rude.
I completely agree and stated as much about responsable ownership.
Hence the discussion before hand about licensing and breeding...............that could cut down on a lot of "idiots" owning any breed they choose.

 

[ACooper]

Originally Posted by ACooper
And as to the "titled" dogs once more..............MOST people who show their dogs do not OWN them outright, they are CO-OWNED by the breeder until they are titled and/or breed and give a puppy back to the original owner, which is normally in the contract of a good breeder. So, since the name of the original breeder is going to be on the ownership record until the dog is bred, and said breeder must obvioulsy have a breeders license, this would not even be a question in most cases. At which time the dog becomes solely yours, you would need to A) get a breeders license or B) spay or neuter.

I am not sure how it goes for sporting dogs, but they do not need to be "intact" to be compete anyway, so it would be up to the owner if he/she wanted to go for a breeders license or not.

just for the record, i am not sure where this info is coming from, but MOST people don't co-own their dogs, most are sold them outright. MOST responsible breeders dont ask for a puppy back.


And interestingly enough, since I don't have a problem admitting I lived with and owned a HA dog that sent someone to the hospital - this dog ALSO had a CGC and was actually used by my dog training club as the "friendly dog" for other dogs CGC tests.

Well ask around, because a lot of people even CHOOSE to keep the breeders name on the dog for various reasons, and it is a very common practice to give a puppy back...............While it's true this is not first hand experience on my part, because I have never bred a dog EVER, and never will.

 

[ACooper]

and im getting tired of having to read your drivel on all these threads, that really pisses me off, too!

One thing about open forums...............YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM.

 

[bubbatd]

Why don't you 2 take this to PMs ??? Nothing can be resolved here .

 

[ACooper]

Why don't you 2 take this to PMs ??? Nothing can be resolved here .

Sorry Grammy, I just felt I was being attacked by her rudeness and had no idea why.................I am through responding either way.

 

[bubbatd]

I agree ..... Kudos to you !

 

[doberkim]

first off, the drivel wasn't even directed at you, it was at bobsk8, which was a direct and sarcastic response to the fact that bobsk8 believes that their own experiences with irresponsible owners renders a particular breed a lethal weapon - i even used bobsk8's exact phrasing, which was to get a point across. you telling me i dont have to read it is exactly why i posted it - just because it DISPLEASES one person, doesn't make the OTHER PERSON wrong. just because someone else doesnt like my choice in breeds, doesn't mean i should have to get rid of them.

secondly, you are misunderstanding my point - which has nothing to do about suggestions on how to regulate dogs, but more importantly the suggestion that APBT people should take lessons from the doberman community - while the DPCA as a whole is one of the more reputable and respectable breed clubs, IMO, the doberman fancy as a whole over the past 2-3 decades has managed to, in some instances, create a better public image for the dog by CHANGING what the breed was meant to be. the doberman was never MEANT to be a GR in black and tan clothing, and was never meant to be a dog that could and should be owned by the general public. I disagree that we do the dobe a great service by "dumbing it down". and i feel that way in regards to the APBT as well.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Not in a million years would I have the time of day to read this whole thread...

It's sad that a child died. It is truly a tragedy. Onus goes to.. DUN DUN DUN, the dogs owner. Period.

Pitbulls are bred to be DA. Period.

Yes it is true, that when pitbulls attack they usually do cause a lot of damage. Any large, muscular animal with lots of sharp teeth that attacks can and may cause a lot of damage.

BSL does NOT work. Here in Ontario, in the Supreme Court the judge did bring that up during the attempt to lift the pitbull ban here in Ontario in May 2006.

It comes down to responsible dog ownership combined with knowledge.

Hating on a breed because of a few bad events is wrong, but we all have done it, at least once.

 

[DemitriousK]

25 days and several circular arguments later we're done with the thread. The girl (and the article) isn't being discussed anymore (the breeds are) so I'm closing this thread, and any further discussion about breeds can be had in the "The Dog Breeds" Forum. Discussions about dog breeding can be had in the "The Breeding Ground" forum. And finally discussions about dog training can be had in the "Dog Training" forum