300 dollars to call 911?

[Dekka]

Op-Ed Columnist - The Fat Lady Has Sung - NYTimes.com

A small news item from Tracy, Calif., caught my eye last week. Local station CBS 13 reported: “Tracy residents will now have to pay every time they call 911 for a medical emergency. But there are a couple of options. Residents can pay a $48 voluntary fee for the year, which allows them to call 911 as many times as necessary. Or there’s the option of not signing up for the annual fee. Instead they will be charged $300 if they make a call for help.â€

the rest of the article goes on about gov spending etc.. but this is what caught my eye.

ok I have friends who are paramedics here. ANd they tell me the most ridiculous things they get called out for. I can kind of see a fee for that. But nearly 50 dollars a year to call as many times as you need to (have only ever needed to call it once) or 300 per call basis.

So already have people who don't call when they should (don't want to be a bother, or aren't sure its serious enough) now in these areas you will get less legit calls too.

Will those who need to call the police in cases of domestic abuse now be scared off by being slapped with a 300 dollar bill?

Scary.

 

[PoodleMommy]

thats crazy!

It would be better to slap people with some kind of fine if they call for a stupid reason (like the lady who called because McDonalds was out of chicken nuggets).

 

[sparks19]

thats crazy!

It would be better to slap people with some kind of fine if they call for a stupid reason (like the lady who called because McDonalds was out of chicken nuggets).

OMG I was going to bring up the SAME thing. yeah that was a real 911 call :O

but yes I agree that's ridiculous.

now I know there are fees for transport by ambulance... but an additional fee for calling 911?

Yeah I'd definitely say if there was not a real emergency they should be fined... but not just for calling 911 for a REAL life or death situation.

 

[k9krazee]

That's ridiculous. I could see paying a fine if they called for something that wasn't legit, but $50 a year or $300? That just seems wrong.

 

[bubbatd]

I can see it for stupid calls , but for a real emergency this is ridicules !!!

 

[Laurelin]

This is so stupid. Unbelievably stupid.

 

[wcladymacbeth]

that's horrible. what a dumb idea.

 

[GlassOnion]

Eh, it makes sense. It's not like they're going "911, what's your credit card number?" They charge you after the ambulance/police get there. It's a charge for the service and you'd get billed it anyways whether you needed the service or not. When I broke my leg, we were charged $200 for the ambulance ride.

And not paying the per year bit is just like not paying insurance. You gamble in the long term in hopes that it offsets the short term.

Will those who need to call the police in cases of domestic abuse now be scared off by being slapped with a 300 dollar bill?

No, read the article. It's for medical emergencies (AKA the ambulance comes out).

 

[sparks19]

Eh, it makes sense. It's not like they're going "911, what's your credit card number?" They charge you after the ambulance/police get there. It's a charge for the service and you'd get billed it anyways whether you needed the service or not. When I broke my leg, we were charged $200 for the ambulance ride.

And not paying the per year bit is just like not paying insurance. You gamble in the long term in hopes that it offsets the short term.

Oh so this is not in addition to the ambulance?

 

[GlassOnion]

Oh so this is not in addition to the ambulance?

My guess is no. A roommate of mine had chronic seizures and the first day he moved in he told everyone "if I seize, don't call an ambulance. They charge some $300 every time they have to come out" so it's not new or unique to just those people in that county. In fact, they were pretty much living in luxury if the hospitals WEREN'T charging before, because around here (and up in College Station as well, Laur) they do.

So basically, they're punishing the stupid people already. The people who have legit medical emergencies won't know the difference because they'd have been charged any ways.

 

[sparks19]

Oh well that makes sense. Yes if you take an ambulance ride there is a cost for it. so if that's what this is then it's nothing new.

 

[Dekka]

Just going by the article its 911 not just ambulance. So if you need to call the cops its still 300?

 

[GlassOnion]

Out of your original post:

A small news item from Tracy, Calif., caught my eye last week. Local station CBS 13 reported: “Tracy residents will now have to pay every time they call 911 for a medical emergency. But there are a couple of options. Residents can pay a $48 voluntary fee for the year, which allows them to call 911 as many times as necessary. Or there’s the option of not signing up for the annual fee. Instead they will be charged $300 if they make a call for help.â€

It's just medical.

It's a logical charge. Ambulances are some $100,000 each, add on the supplies inside, the responders, and gas, and it's kind of surprising they don't charge more.

 

[vanillasugar]

I do want to know if this is ON TOP of any fees that may be charged for EMS care in the states... (Matt says it is, and he's discussed it with others on Paramedic-y type forums).

Either way, it's $45 even here for actual legitimate emergencies and $300 if it's a non-emergency (but this is hardly EVER charged. Matt's had some insanely stupid calls and they never get charged the non-emergency fee). But that goes to the hospital, not to the service, and is a hang-on from an ancient law that's becoming less and less popular with time.

 

[Dekka]

Ok stand corrected medical charge. But even so GO, do some math. 300 in town 400 out of town is still really high. (assume 6-10 calls a day-sounds like a smallish place so be conservative at 8 in a 24 hour period) assume 5 years of ambulance life.

That gives you ~$43,680,000 in 5 years. that is 436.8 times more money that the cost of the vehicle.

(8 calls in a 24 hour period is pretty low, and most calls don't require much in the way of supplies)

 

[GlassOnion]

That gives you ~$43,680,000 in 5 years. that is 436.8 times more money that the cost of the vehicle.

Hospitals are places of business. They have to make a profit. How much do you think the land, the building, all the equipment, etc cost? Huge doctor salaries? All the insurance? Current lawsuits? Payouts? Remember, when someone takes a hospital to court (or anyone to court) they're looking for payouts in the millions (billions if they could get them). And juries are usually sympathetic to the woe-be-gone average joe and not the big, bad, evil, corporation, money-grubbing hospital, even though there's a **** TON of frivolous lawsuits that come from hospitals. Hospitals have to recover that cost. Blame your fellow man, not the hospital. They're just running a business.

It's not like hospitals are making billion dollar profits. And besides, the actual consumer of the process will pay a fraction of the $300 back through insurance.

 

[Dekka]

A profit on emergency calls, ok well here we will have to agree to disagree. I am fine with the notion of a hospital being private and charging what is Nessie to run. But a hosipital is not like a regular business, its primary goal should be to help people. (and yes you can't be in the hole and keep helping people.) Not to grab as much cash as possible.

Its not like there are other competing businesses that can keep the market even. That is the idea of capitalism. But in most small communities the hospital has a monopoly. Sure people have an option. They can just let gramma die from that heart attack, let themsleves bleed to death from a car accident, but those aren't viable options. Its not like a company making TVs or building a house even.

 

[GlassOnion]

A profit on emergency calls, ok well here we will have to agree to disagree. I am fine with the notion of a hospital being private and charging what is Nessie to run. But a hosipital is not like a regular business, its primary goal should be to help people. (and yes you can't be in the hole and keep helping people.) Not to grab as much cash as possible.

I'd hate to go to a hospital that only charged what was required for services. Shitty facilities, shitty doctors, shitty treatment, shitty service. Yech. No incentive to improve themselves.

And yah, they have monopolies in communities, however they're still inspected and regulated. They can't just charge exorbitant prices. Or well, millions of dollars for a splinter removal, though they can charge $40 for a cotton ball, but you get that in private practice of MDs too, where there is competition. It's a problem with the insurance companies and ignorance of the people who don't know what they're really paying for that procedure, they just know their $20 copay.


Anyhow I have no problem with making a profit off of health care. I'd be a hypocrite if I did, as that's the only way vets make money at all, and we're much more reasonable about our rates! Though I should add that a house call for the clinic I work at is:

$100 flat within a 20 mile radius, $200 from 20 - 40 miles and we don't go beyond that. Add in the gas, travel time (basically the doctor's 'hourly' rate that they're giving up by not taking regular appointments) and what not and it's usually a little less than $200 for a vet house call (and then however much it costs to care for the animal), which is about comparable to an ambulance.

There are mobile vets in the area that charge less but people seem willing to pay more for the services they get from us. It's pretty much the same deal with the ambulance, except you've no alternative choice except driving them yourself. But really you're paying for the service and expertise while covering the cost of the assets used on the way. But can you imagine if there was ambulance competition? It'd be like wreckers (for towing/car crashes) competing for a call and you'd have ambulances flying all over the place, wrecklessly driving hither and thither trying to beat out the other guys to the call first.

Besides, how on earth are you going to price out ambulance services while your family member is screaming in agony next to you? It's not like there's only one ambulance service in an area any how. They compete with one another already for the contract with the hospital, who will, being a business, take the cheapest one.

 

[Dekka]

I never said JUST scraping by. I said no gouging of those you are there to help. Do you think you would get better policing if you had to pay every time you used the police services?

Most vets I know don't get rich either. Comfortable yes, rich from gouging no. I am all for people making a fair wage. Difference with vets though is if you have an area where there is a good vet who is gouging chances are a new decent vet will come in and charge a more fair price thus restoring balance. People get charged what the market will bear (not what things are worth) the problem arises when a large company has a monopoly on an essential service.

Its ok as long as they aren't charging a million dollars? Um 40 dollars for a cotton ball huh? Sign me up, no wonder the US health care system is one of the most expensive in the 1st world!

 

[sparks19]

I never said JUST scraping by. I said no gouging of those you are there to help. Do you think you would get better policing if you had to pay every time you used the police services?

Most vets I know don't get rich either. Comfortable yes, rich from gouging no. I am all for people making a fair wage. Difference with vets though is if you have an area where there is a good vet who is gouging chances are a new decent vet will come in and charge a more fair price thus restoring balance. People get charged what the market will bear (not what things are worth) the problem arises when a large company has a monopoly on an essential service.

Its ok as long as they aren't charging a million dollars? Um 40 dollars for a cotton ball huh? Sign me up, no wonder the US health care system is one of the most expensive in the 1st world!

Ok I would equate a Vet to a family physician. I can go to another doctor who is willing to work on cost with me or payment at least just as you can with a vet.

But when you go to the emergency vet... ever notice you get charged a MUCH larger amount for their services? and there aren't a lot of emerg vets around and they most likely charge an arm and a leg. I remember taking teddy to the E vet for a cut foot that was bleeding A LOT. they didn't even LOOK at it and wanted to do a $700 procedure. We told them that we didn't think it was nessecary. so they gave us the option to just clean it... over $300. We finally just told them to give us the antibiotic shot and send us home. it was over $150 for the shot, their time and a bandage.

took him to our regular vet and it was basically a $40 visit because there was no repair that could be done he just need antibiotics to protect him from whatever nasty thing sliced him in the river.

I fyou go to Emerg expect a higher price than if you go to your family doctor and most areas have more than one family doctor available.